Lanier RC still around?
08-05-2009, 07:45 PM
#27
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
ORIGINAL: Scar
Yup. Don't forget, first Lanier bought Goldberg.
To get the Goldberg product, GP had to buy Lanier. Then they just had that firesale and unloaded a bunch of product that wasn't selling otherwise.
Amazes me how people complain about disappearing kitmakers, then when SkyShark offers to run off a batch of kits, nobody steps up. I ordered 3, and got a message back a month later, they didn't get enough orders for any one run. Finally, just recently, I obtained a SkyShark '109 from a friend.
I picked up a few Lanier boxes on that firesale, too... I'll be building into my dotage!
Dave Olson
ORIGINAL: MinnFlyer
Geeze, what a bunch of pessimists!
These companies were going under, so GP bought them to try and SAVE them, not to shut them down!
Here's how it works:
Company ''A'' has 5 really fantastic planes in their lineup and 10 that are good planes, but not selling very well.
This company is going out of business - so NONE of these planes will be available again. Kiss them good-bye forever!
Company ''B'' steps in and buys what's left of Company ''A''. They sell off what's left of the dead stock cheap and continue to produce only the top sellers.
Look at Goldberg - You can still get their Cub, Tiger, Ultimate, Chipmunk, Falcon, Eagle. etc. (All in ARF AND KIT )
Geeze, what a bunch of pessimists!
These companies were going under, so GP bought them to try and SAVE them, not to shut them down!
Here's how it works:
Company ''A'' has 5 really fantastic planes in their lineup and 10 that are good planes, but not selling very well.
This company is going out of business - so NONE of these planes will be available again. Kiss them good-bye forever!
Company ''B'' steps in and buys what's left of Company ''A''. They sell off what's left of the dead stock cheap and continue to produce only the top sellers.
Look at Goldberg - You can still get their Cub, Tiger, Ultimate, Chipmunk, Falcon, Eagle. etc. (All in ARF AND KIT )
To get the Goldberg product, GP had to buy Lanier. Then they just had that firesale and unloaded a bunch of product that wasn't selling otherwise.
Amazes me how people complain about disappearing kitmakers, then when SkyShark offers to run off a batch of kits, nobody steps up. I ordered 3, and got a message back a month later, they didn't get enough orders for any one run. Finally, just recently, I obtained a SkyShark '109 from a friend.
I picked up a few Lanier boxes on that firesale, too... I'll be building into my dotage!
Dave Olson
08-05-2009, 08:49 PM
#28
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
OK, Bax and Mike, I'll give you that 1.kit building is down, way down. 2. Some kits were dogs when they were in their hay day. 3. A company has to make money. However,if you are in it for money, and not just to corner the market, why not sell off the dogs, IEthe heavy, no hardware basic kits like Lanier made, to a third party and let them have a go at redesigning and manufacturing.
Today, Tower has one, only one, Lanier ARF avaiable now. One wing kit and one fuselage kit. That's the extent of the Lanier line now. To say that GP didn't buy them out to shut down compentition is just not a fact. If, as suggested, the idea was to rescue them, they spent a lot of money for not. I would guess the the CG line was what they were after and Lanier was colateral damage.
If I'm wrong, have GPat least sell the plans. Most guys that would build a Lanier will modify it to their needs.A set of plans is almost as good as a kit. There are companies that sell fiberglass cowls and such for the old kits, so getting the custom parts wouldn't be much of an issue either unless GPdecides to shut them down also.
I'll give you an example of what is going on. When I moved to San Jose the first time in 1975, there was a hardware store called Orchard Supply Hardware. It was the most incredable hardware store I ever saw, If you needed it, they had it. Period. My second move to San Jose in 1985 saw OSH as a chain, many stores in the south bay area and branching out across the state and south west.
At the same time, Kmart was on rough times, If you wanted a nut or bolt, you had to find it on a rack in a bag, by your self or it wasn't ther. The blue light special was loosing it glow.
OSHwas doing so good that Sears bought them out. Sears was know for their tools, and it seemed a great match at first. OSH started handeling Craftsman tools. Not quite the selection that you would find in a good Sears store, but a nown brand name none the less. Then Sears fell on hard times and Kmart who was just coming out of bankrupsrey (SP?) bought Sears., and along with it came OSH. Both OSH and Kmart now sell Craftsman tool, not the quality of 40 years back, and they sell the Kenmore line, The three stores each had one unique apeal to begin with. OSHwas a very knowlageble hardware store who kept a great supply of things a person would go to a hardware store for.Sears was known for supplying the common folks with rock solid tools, good apliances, and quaility stuff or the working folks going back for generations. Kmart had an "I've got it all and it cheep format". Back in the 70's, when I was in Michigan, Kmart was the place to go for car parts, fishing equipment, shotgun shells and toys for Xmas, all on a budget. Sears was where you went for your appliances and top of the line tools. OSH wasn't know then in Michigan, but in the San Jose area, they were the choice of hardware stors for just about anyting.
Then came the great mergers.Sears aquired OSH, then Kmart aquired Sears. Today, going into any of the stores is different than the past. Any of the positive points have been burnished off. Craftsman tool are some what better than Harbor Freight, If you want a screw or bolt at OSHnow, it in a bag on a rack lke Kmart used to be and is today if they even have screws and bolts. Kmart, has less of the stuff that made them a success, and some Craftsman tool, but the banner over the isle is bigger than the selction.And Sears, is still struggeling.
How does this equate to the topic at hand, GPis Kmart, CGis Sears, and Lanier is OSH. At least in the example each of the parent stores still displays their own logo sign and each has some of what made them sucessful. In the hobby arena though, that is not the case. No Lanier kits or ARF to speak of, Limited GCstuff and GP is in control and will drive the market to a Kmart level.
Don
Today, Tower has one, only one, Lanier ARF avaiable now. One wing kit and one fuselage kit. That's the extent of the Lanier line now. To say that GP didn't buy them out to shut down compentition is just not a fact. If, as suggested, the idea was to rescue them, they spent a lot of money for not. I would guess the the CG line was what they were after and Lanier was colateral damage.
If I'm wrong, have GPat least sell the plans. Most guys that would build a Lanier will modify it to their needs.A set of plans is almost as good as a kit. There are companies that sell fiberglass cowls and such for the old kits, so getting the custom parts wouldn't be much of an issue either unless GPdecides to shut them down also.
I'll give you an example of what is going on. When I moved to San Jose the first time in 1975, there was a hardware store called Orchard Supply Hardware. It was the most incredable hardware store I ever saw, If you needed it, they had it. Period. My second move to San Jose in 1985 saw OSH as a chain, many stores in the south bay area and branching out across the state and south west.
At the same time, Kmart was on rough times, If you wanted a nut or bolt, you had to find it on a rack in a bag, by your self or it wasn't ther. The blue light special was loosing it glow.
OSHwas doing so good that Sears bought them out. Sears was know for their tools, and it seemed a great match at first. OSH started handeling Craftsman tools. Not quite the selection that you would find in a good Sears store, but a nown brand name none the less. Then Sears fell on hard times and Kmart who was just coming out of bankrupsrey (SP?) bought Sears., and along with it came OSH. Both OSH and Kmart now sell Craftsman tool, not the quality of 40 years back, and they sell the Kenmore line, The three stores each had one unique apeal to begin with. OSHwas a very knowlageble hardware store who kept a great supply of things a person would go to a hardware store for.Sears was known for supplying the common folks with rock solid tools, good apliances, and quaility stuff or the working folks going back for generations. Kmart had an "I've got it all and it cheep format". Back in the 70's, when I was in Michigan, Kmart was the place to go for car parts, fishing equipment, shotgun shells and toys for Xmas, all on a budget. Sears was where you went for your appliances and top of the line tools. OSH wasn't know then in Michigan, but in the San Jose area, they were the choice of hardware stors for just about anyting.
Then came the great mergers.Sears aquired OSH, then Kmart aquired Sears. Today, going into any of the stores is different than the past. Any of the positive points have been burnished off. Craftsman tool are some what better than Harbor Freight, If you want a screw or bolt at OSHnow, it in a bag on a rack lke Kmart used to be and is today if they even have screws and bolts. Kmart, has less of the stuff that made them a success, and some Craftsman tool, but the banner over the isle is bigger than the selction.And Sears, is still struggeling.
How does this equate to the topic at hand, GPis Kmart, CGis Sears, and Lanier is OSH. At least in the example each of the parent stores still displays their own logo sign and each has some of what made them sucessful. In the hobby arena though, that is not the case. No Lanier kits or ARF to speak of, Limited GCstuff and GP is in control and will drive the market to a Kmart level.
Don
08-05-2009, 09:00 PM
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
If GP did not buy Lanier to shut it down why would they not continue the Stinger line of planes. That was the most sucessful plane Lanier ever had and would still be in command. I don't know why they would not continue it?
08-05-2009, 09:05 PM
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
If GP did not buy Lanier to shut it down why would they not continue the Stinger line of planes. That was the most sucessful plane Lanier ever had and would still be in command. I don't know why they would not continue it?
08-05-2009, 09:17 PM
#31
RE: Lanier RC still around?
ORIGINAL: ArcticCatRider
Wow. I wonder if those kits will go into production...or if GP will just bury the blue prints.
Wow. I wonder if those kits will go into production...or if GP will just bury the blue prints.
The Ayatollah of Motorola??? What's your core-ID?
08-05-2009, 09:47 PM
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
ORIGINAL: reyn3545
The Ayatollah of Motorola??? What's your core-ID?
ORIGINAL: ArcticCatRider
Wow. I wonder if those kits will go into production...or if GP will just bury the blue prints.
Wow. I wonder if those kits will go into production...or if GP will just bury the blue prints.
The Ayatollah of Motorola??? What's your core-ID?
08-05-2009, 10:12 PM
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
A little constructive criticism if you will.
I currently own 4 or 5 30 to 33% "ARF" aircraft that are now obsolete because distributors have dropped the line with no warning or further support one of which was the last lanier yak 54 94 to leave towers warehouse only to find out a week later that its discontinued so for all intents and purposes if I have a mishap and sustain unrepairable damage no matter how minor I'm stuck spending another $800 to $1000 for a completely new and different airframe because I can no longer get replacement parts.
Well let me ask you this, how would you personally feel if you had to go buy a NEW car the first time you needed some little replacement part ? and what kind of impression would that leave you with
The "OTHER COMANY" is terrible about just this same thing 4 of the 5 I make refference to came from them I've changed the graphics on them to "dumpster 9" and I've not bought another anything from them becasue of it.
Given the fragile nature of this hobby flooding the market with these aircraft be it kits or arf's and then dropping them with no further availability of replacement parts or kits/arfs
immediately makes me suspicious of some proprietary marketing strategy designed to keep me and everybody else that bought them paying through the nose.
I'm not bashing in any way just trying to give you some feedback and be as honest as I can about it
I understand sales will drop off once 25,000 of a particular airframe have sold but rather than discontinue it and leave those 25,000 customers swingin by the short and curlies
throw a new covering/paint scheme on it and rekindle the interest but keep em coming and keep the replacement parts available which will go along way toward building trust and repeat buisness that money and marketing strategy can't buy
I currently own 4 or 5 30 to 33% "ARF" aircraft that are now obsolete because distributors have dropped the line with no warning or further support one of which was the last lanier yak 54 94 to leave towers warehouse only to find out a week later that its discontinued so for all intents and purposes if I have a mishap and sustain unrepairable damage no matter how minor I'm stuck spending another $800 to $1000 for a completely new and different airframe because I can no longer get replacement parts.
Well let me ask you this, how would you personally feel if you had to go buy a NEW car the first time you needed some little replacement part ? and what kind of impression would that leave you with
The "OTHER COMANY" is terrible about just this same thing 4 of the 5 I make refference to came from them I've changed the graphics on them to "dumpster 9" and I've not bought another anything from them becasue of it.
Given the fragile nature of this hobby flooding the market with these aircraft be it kits or arf's and then dropping them with no further availability of replacement parts or kits/arfs
immediately makes me suspicious of some proprietary marketing strategy designed to keep me and everybody else that bought them paying through the nose.
I'm not bashing in any way just trying to give you some feedback and be as honest as I can about it
I understand sales will drop off once 25,000 of a particular airframe have sold but rather than discontinue it and leave those 25,000 customers swingin by the short and curlies
throw a new covering/paint scheme on it and rekindle the interest but keep em coming and keep the replacement parts available which will go along way toward building trust and repeat buisness that money and marketing strategy can't buy
ORIGINAL: Bax
Please note that Lanier, including Carl Goldberg Models, was acquired by Great Planes/Hobbico in August, 2007. Carl Goldberg, himself, passed away in January, 1985, more than two decades previously. There never was any ''bad blood'' between the two companies. Carl Goldberg models never stopped being sold through our company.
An examination of our history will show that NONE of the brands we have acquired have ''disappeared''. They have all been re-energized and continued. Each one has its own identity. As far as model airplane kits are concerned, they get discontinued because modelers no longer purchase them. Nobody's going to manufacture something people won't buy. Successful products do not get discontinued.
Please note that Lanier, including Carl Goldberg Models, was acquired by Great Planes/Hobbico in August, 2007. Carl Goldberg, himself, passed away in January, 1985, more than two decades previously. There never was any ''bad blood'' between the two companies. Carl Goldberg models never stopped being sold through our company.
An examination of our history will show that NONE of the brands we have acquired have ''disappeared''. They have all been re-energized and continued. Each one has its own identity. As far as model airplane kits are concerned, they get discontinued because modelers no longer purchase them. Nobody's going to manufacture something people won't buy. Successful products do not get discontinued.
08-05-2009, 11:59 PM
#35
RE: Lanier RC still around?
Okay.
I am going to take Minnflyer's suggestion to see if anyone bites. Maybe I am all by myself in a very big pond. I am going to start a thread with the hopes to have a couple of these kits re-issued if not at least once more.
I personally do think there is a solution. I feel it is in plans and templates. Leave the canopies and cowls etc. to us. There are aftermarket suppliers, and technology is easier to come by (ie. vacuum forming) now days.
I know it will take work to offer this, so I'll try the other route and see just where it may go.
Here is the link to help get these planes back. Please go there and help get these models back.
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8994041/tm.htm[/link]
Brian.
I am going to take Minnflyer's suggestion to see if anyone bites. Maybe I am all by myself in a very big pond. I am going to start a thread with the hopes to have a couple of these kits re-issued if not at least once more.
I personally do think there is a solution. I feel it is in plans and templates. Leave the canopies and cowls etc. to us. There are aftermarket suppliers, and technology is easier to come by (ie. vacuum forming) now days.
I know it will take work to offer this, so I'll try the other route and see just where it may go.
Here is the link to help get these planes back. Please go there and help get these models back.
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8994041/tm.htm[/link]
Brian.
08-06-2009, 09:18 AM
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
ORIGINAL: reyn3545
I just assumed you worked for Motorola... I'm a sales manager for them in Atlanta.
I just assumed you worked for Motorola... I'm a sales manager for them in Atlanta.
SO I'm a big fan...
08-12-2009, 09:45 AM
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
ORIGINAL: waynebang
If GP did not buy Lanier to shut it down why would they not continue the Stinger line of planes. That was the most sucessful plane Lanier ever had and would still be in command. I don't know why they would not continue it?
If GP did not buy Lanier to shut it down why would they not continue the Stinger line of planes. That was the most sucessful plane Lanier ever had and would still be in command. I don't know why they would not continue it?
I will agree with this. You hear so much about the Stingers-how great they flew etc. etc. and how people cut their aerobatic teeth on them and such...some even argue that they helped introduce 3D flight. I was lucky enough to buy the last Giant Stinger kit my hobby shop had for a very, reduced price tag
. I will agree that the kit was lacking in areas but its nothing that can't be substituted and made even better with very little effort. I feel very lucky to have found this kit-been looking for a long time. I think it will be a nice old-school sport plane that I'll fly when I want an all around great flying gasser. It would be nice if they were re-introduced with some changes made to the material selection but I am afraid that will never happen.
08-12-2009, 12:55 PM
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
An interesting read, but I'm afraid it all comes down to simple economics, and though I'd like to see lots more kits, a company needs to do what it needs to do. With the low volume of kit sales in general, every time a company like GP develops a new kit one or brings an old one back, they have to consider not only the kits potential to make a profit, but also what kind of bite it may take out of one of their other kits sales. I think the only conspiracy going on is to stay in business and make a profit.
I guess I'd be more worried if there weren't loads of old kits, kit cutters, plan services and balsa and parts suppliers. This winter me and 4 club members will be building Royal P-26 Peashooters from plans. Since the time we decided to do it I picked up one of the kits for less than it cost originally, and I just saw one go for $180 on ebay.
I guess I'd be more worried if there weren't loads of old kits, kit cutters, plan services and balsa and parts suppliers. This winter me and 4 club members will be building Royal P-26 Peashooters from plans. Since the time we decided to do it I picked up one of the kits for less than it cost originally, and I just saw one go for $180 on ebay.
08-12-2009, 03:10 PM
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
ORIGINAL: smithcreek
An interesting read, but I'm afraid it all comes down to simple economics, and though I'd like to see lots more kits, a company needs to do what it needs to do. With the low volume of kit sales in general, every time a company like GP develops a new kit one or brings an old one back, they have to consider not only the kits potential to make a profit, but also what kind of bite it may take out of one of their other kits sales. I think the only conspiracy going on is to stay in business and make a profit.
I guess I'd be more worried if there weren't loads of old kits, kit cutters, plan services and balsa and parts suppliers. This winter me and 4 club members will be building Royal P-26 Peashooters from plans. Since the time we decided to do it I picked up one of the kits for less than it cost originally, and I just saw one go for $180 on ebay.
An interesting read, but I'm afraid it all comes down to simple economics, and though I'd like to see lots more kits, a company needs to do what it needs to do. With the low volume of kit sales in general, every time a company like GP develops a new kit one or brings an old one back, they have to consider not only the kits potential to make a profit, but also what kind of bite it may take out of one of their other kits sales. I think the only conspiracy going on is to stay in business and make a profit.
I guess I'd be more worried if there weren't loads of old kits, kit cutters, plan services and balsa and parts suppliers. This winter me and 4 club members will be building Royal P-26 Peashooters from plans. Since the time we decided to do it I picked up one of the kits for less than it cost originally, and I just saw one go for $180 on ebay.
I think people would pay a premium for a good kit. I know I would. I'd build a kit for the same reason I change my own oil. The only way I can assure it's done right is if I do it myself. And meanwhile, I know having a perfectly built model airplane isn't critical to my survival....but it is satisfying and comforting to know my building skills will keep my plane in the air, and lasting for a long time.
There's a target market for kit builders...no doubt about it. The same reasons a "Kit Builder" thread exists in RCU. For the rest of the populous....Facebook, MySpace, reality TV will all lose their luster one of these days. People will take up recreation like this once again.
09-30-2009, 10:13 AM
#47
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
I am sad that both Lanier RC and Carl Goldberg models are no longer available other than through private sales and auctions. However, I have to say that it seams to me that building models are becoming a lost art. Very few modelers are avid builders anymore. I have been around long enough to see the hobby go from the days when all you could get were plans and you had to fabricate the entire model yourself to today when you can buy a model already built and even ready to fly. Don't get me wrong here, because I do love to build as well as fly but I have to take into consideration the time to build and cost verses buying and ARF or Ready-To-Fly. For example, I built the Carl Goldberg Super Chipmunk (60 size) years ago. I flew it and crashed it rebuilt and modified it and flew it some more. The kit flew great and I enjoyed it tremendously! about 4 years ago I was given as a retirement gift the Great Planes Giant Super Chipmunk. I still have this plane and fly it a lot. Being knowledgeable of kit building and design I did some research before deciding on a power plant for this model. After hearing a lot of people say the 120 was under powered and it needed more like a 150 or 180 size power plant I decided to install a Moki 210 I had from a previous plane. The Great Planes Giant Super Chipmunk flies as well as the Carl Goldberg model flew. The point is that models come and go and manufacturers come and go. It is also getting to the point that if you want a great flying model that you have built or modified yourself than that is what you must do. You may have to TOTALLY build it, which for a Builder is not much different than putting together a kit. Oh, and by the way, here is something else to think about. There are a lot of Kit Cutters out there ( people who will take plans and cut all the necessary parts for you and box it up and send it to you like a kit). The point about GP buying up companies to cut the competition is mute because There are always options. If you do not want to totally build the model from plans but do not want to buy from GP then you can also hire someone to ether cut the kit or build the plane for you which in essence is an ARF. The biggest question is are you a modeller or a flyer of models? You choose![:-]
09-30-2009, 10:49 AM
#48
RE: Lanier RC still around?
Hobbico has not cut off Goldberg altogether. They are still selling the Chipmunk, Ultimate, Tiger, etc.
See for yourself:
[link]http://www3.towerhobbies.com/Cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=carl+%3CB%3Egoldberg%3C%2FB%3E[/link]
Brian
See for yourself:
[link]http://www3.towerhobbies.com/Cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=carl+%3CB%3Egoldberg%3C%2FB%3E[/link]
Brian
09-30-2009, 11:28 AM
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RE: Lanier RC still around?
The point about GP buying up companies to cut the competition is mute because There are always options.
I would have to disagree about the point being mute, I think it is self evident even to the casual observer. History of GP discontinuing the kits shows us this. There are always options, but truth in actions by GP is obvious. Just look at the number of discontinued kits and tell me its mute. See the thread here about the Jungmann and Exra 300 kits.