davidyat

I'm building a Don Smith 1/9 B-24. Is there any advantage to one adhesive over another. I've worked with Titebond Wood Glue and CA glues. The CA's are fast and Titebond has easy clean up. If I were to use the CA's I would probably use the thick ones as this will allow time for the adhesive to soak into the wood fibers. Has anyone had any experience with both so as to give me a comparative assesment.

Tally Ho

Dave

DavidAgar

My Feedback: (108)

CA allows for a quicker build and the thicker CA does allow for some small adjustment of parts. The down side is that CA is hard to sand and can cause some problems with your health as it does emit some odors. Using Titebond is slower to dry but it does sand well and allows you a lot more time to get your parts in the position that you need. You will also find that CA costs more to buy than Titebond. Good Luck, Dave

catracer343

I started to use Ambroid on my last build. It's not the perfect glue for everything, but if you have any lamination's that will require a lot of sanding, or you're looking to "tack" some parts together real quick, you can't beat it! Good luck with your build! -Craig

foodstick

If you have the room to work on multiple tables, The white glues and titebond can keep you pretty busy. And it is nice to be able to walk around and check things instead of BAM! its glued..right or wrong.

There is obviously a place for the super glues, but don't use it alot without good airflow.. I am one of the people that built like crazy with it and now avoid it like the plague! even sanding 5 year old ca out of rebuilt models bothers me.

it just shuts down my sinus, and throat like a BAD cold ..its not fun...

So if you can build a piece here, and one over there it will seem like the glue dries faster.. have fun and keep building !

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I used to use CA's for my building but about 9 years ago I switched to Elmer's Carpenter's Glue, and I won't go back to the CA's. I feel that my building has improved since I've switched because I have more time to get a joint positioned correctly before the glue sets and you don't get those hard knots in the wood that are impossible to sand. Also I didn't like the reaction my body has to the CA fumes. Many call it a CA allergy, but after I've talked to a few doctors and a couple of chemists I find that it's not an allergy but a simple chemical reaction in your body. The CA fumes react with the moisture in your nose, throat, and lungs to produce some very bad reactions. Over time these reactions can become worse with repeated exposure. I've seen people that can hardly breath for 3 days after using it. I wanted to avoid that from happening before it got to that point. So..... here's what I use for my building.

[*]Elmer's Carpenter's Glue - This is my main adhesive. I use it for the majority of building with balsa and wood to wood contact. For ply's and harder woods I will use epoxy[*]5 minute epoxy - I do have this around but I very rarerly use it. I will usually use 30 minute, but I have the 5 minute around for quick uses that aren't in critical areas of the plane.[*]30 minute epoxy - I use this for critical stress areas on the plane such as wing joints, firewall attachments, horizontal and vertical stabilizer, securing hinge points, and other high stress critical areas.[*]CA's - Yes, I know I said I didn't use these but that's not entirely true. I still use them for a couple of things. I keep thin CA around for hardening threads cut into wood for such things as wing bolts. I may also use it to help hold large constructions together while the Elmer's sets. I will put a couple of small drops on the wood to hold it all together while the wood glue dries. I also do reviews for RCU and I use the proper thickness CA adhesive that is called for in the instructions. I do this because we try to do review planes as the instructions call for. I do have medium and thick CA around but don't use them much. Especially the thick, too many people try to use thick CA to fill up gaps in wood joints but this can be bad, it can lead to a false sense of security because the joint will be weak. Nothing beats wood to wood contact in a joint.[*]Formula 560 - This is a canopy adhesive and that's exactly what I use it for, for attaching the canopy to the fuselage[*]Gorilla Glue - I don't use this glue too much because of the way it expands while setting up. This can be bad if you don't have the area secured properly because it can push the parts out of position before it dries. But I've found that it does have several really good uses, one especially good is if you have areas that need to be filled and secured. You can apply the glue and a little water and the glue will expand out into the area you want to fill.[*]Thread locks - Self-explanatory. I use thread lock to keep nuts and screws in place. Always use blue thread lock so you can remove the nut or screw later. Never ever use red thread lock because it's permenant, you won't get your nut or screw off ever again.[*]3M 77 spray adhesive - This is some great stuff that has lots of uses in our hobby. One that comes to mind right off the bat is when doing cockpits. You can use this spray adhesive to hold items like printed instrument panels in place.[/list]
Well, that's about all I can think of right now.

Ken

TFF

I prefer to use as little CA as I can get away with. Health wise it is terrible. I still use it in certain situations and it can be handy. I like Titebond or the like for general building. Truth is you cant just have one. Epoxies for high strength and fuel areas. I like thin CA to help with cap stripping as I use it like a clamp at each end with Titebond along most of the rib. If you have to modify something it is easer to cut out epoxies and Titebond than CAs and the CA soaked wood, re-glued, can be a mess.

TinmanJones

Ken... that is some great information... thank you!!!

foodstick

Ken you pretty much wrote down my exact strategy as well ! There are times I think we really collect glue, not build models !

WhiteRook

My Feedback: (38)

IMOP , use the titebond , eccept where high strenght is needed , or there will be fuel in the area, such as the engine room ,use epoxy in these areas. CA is just to toxic and too hard to clean up. when i'm joining ply onto balsa i usually use epoxy

davidyat

Thanks for all the help, everyone. I've used a lot of Titebond in my woodworking projects more than I have with CA's. So it looks like Titebond and 30 minute epoxy in high stress areas.

Tally Ho

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I use CA thin for tack glueing only. I stopped using thick CA. Aliphatic resign glues work fast if you don't use more than just enough to do the job. Wiping each side of a joint to be glued with aliphatic resin glue and waiting until a skin has formed on both pieces before finish glueing will provide a very strong joint.

As others have indicated, save epoxy glue for those joints requiring the maximum in strength and fuel proofing. I haven't bothered learning to use the foaming gorilla glues that are available today. I'm content with the results I get from the glues I am used to using.


Ed Cregger

Cyberwolf

My Feedback: (4)

Just a note for thought, thick CA won't absorb into the wood as good as thin will, but it will give a stronger joint when dried and more time to move a part if installed wrong.
I have used CA glues since it first came out and still use it today ,Guess i'm one of the lucky ones the fumes don't seem to bother, but I don't try to breath anymore of it than I have to. I do use the titebond or elmers also and of course epoxy when I need the max strength,wing bolt plates, firewalls, landing gear plates and so forth.
I'm not a big fan of Gorila glues, as they do foam up and pieces glued with it needs to be clamped otherwise things don't turn out so hot.
As many planes as I build each year I just coudn't get done useing anything other than CA glues in the time I have to spare to build.

Tip if you have a build up spot of CA as a rule to much glue was used, use masking or duck tape around the area and sharp sand paper on a block or stick and usually it will sand off ok, at least it does for me. The trick is catch it early before it has a chance to really get hard hard.
Accelerators make the CA glues dry faster and is needed at times, but here is where I watch the fumes ,it will acually boil the glue if to much is used and looks like a weld full of puriosity and really isn't all that great of a joint. A very light mist of accelerator is all I ever use. I can somehow manage to hold even the more stubborn parts in place while the glue sets.
Good Luck with your build glad i'm not alone yet when it comes to building .

Broken Wings

My Feedback: (20)

I use Elmers White most of the time. (as well as some CA and epoxy)...
I like the fact that it dries clear.

At $14 a gallon at Home Depot it goes a Looooong way.

You NEED good pins when you use one of the slower setting glues like Elmers. The "T" pins are in my opinion just too large in diameter. Check out the modelers pins from Hobby Lobby or *bay for insect pins. I buy #5 or #6 size. They're black enamelled and super cheap.

You can also find popsicle sticks, tongue depressors, acid brushes, little plastic throw away shot glasses and my favorite "The Monoject 412 syringe" for mixing and applying the sticky stuff. Buy in bulk if you're a kit builder.

These are the wing panels for my new Killer Chaos built with Regular Ole Elmers Glue all and a little epoxy.

gblas777

My Feedback: (13)

and for those who havent tried it....the gorilla glue or elmers polyurethane which are about the same works wonderful for installing robart pin hinges.expands enough to fill the voids and really holds tight

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Old fashioned Elmer's white glue was not water proof, even after curing for a very long time. That is why folks used aliphatic resin glue (yellow) instead of white glue. I have used white glue too, but I would be sure to cover the joints with a water proof sealant.

I agree about the accelerant being nastier on our senses than the CA itself. I suspect that this varies from person to person and brand to brand of products.


Ed Cregger

Broken Wings

My Feedback: (20)

Ed, I've never had any problems with it and I've been building with it for years. I don't fly off water but I can see your point.

Not being water proof may be an advatage when doing a repair. Maybe soak/spray it with water and see if I can get the joint to come apart. I'll have to try it, Thanks

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I hadn't thought of not being water-proof as an advantage for when performing repairs. You make a good point. I haven't had any failures either with white glue, now that I think of it.


Ed Cregger

sensei

All I use is thin and medium CA for my entire builds except for foam parts, then I use Gorilla glue. I for one never liked pinning and waiting for the next day to go on with a build, so I use the stuff as a time machine...

Bob

foodstick

Bob, I did the same for quite awhile, then it started making my respiratory system just lock up, and fast..
I hope it won't bother you, but try to avoid breathing the fumes, keep good air flow..and keep building !

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

After I started using CA it was the only thing I would use for a build. Then winter hit and I was building in a small shop without any air flow at all, shazam, instant cold!! At that time no one had mentioned any CA reaction and I wasn't sure what was causing it but I finally put two and two together. Now days I use several types of glues but during the summer I still use thin CA for a build with the door and window to my shop open, no problems until the weather gets too hot and I have to close up the shop and turn on the air. I'm OK with it until I start sheeting then like magic I have that bad cold again. I'm starting to use more and more wood glue these days. I don't like it near as much as CA but it's better then being plugged up for weeks on end.
I still feel I get a stronger build with CA but wonder about the cost to my health.

SooperFlye

Excellent post,,,
about adhesives, you guys must've been reading my mind. I just need to say this as a beginner, the adhesives required for this hobby is NOT the stuff I learnt when I was in 1st grade. I discovered that CA is not the same as Superglue from the 1970's. This CA stuff is powerful, newfound respect from a newbie. And speaking of powerful ... Epoxy. Wow, that stuff is an eye opener and a learning experience, what apowerful adhesive, in fact, can one actually call epoxy, an adhesive? I call in chemical concrete, whoa!

I don't know what it isbut whatI would like to know, is there a manual or definitive book on adhesives and how to best handle these powerful glues? For instance, the left over epoxy seems a waste, what do I need to do to keep this from happening in the future. The stuff is hard as a brick!

James,,,

sensei

Thanks for the advise, Ialways work in my garage with the door open and a large fan going, so I do have alot of air moving.

Bob

sebo

I'm strictly a CA, 30 MIN EPOXY, and RC 56 FOR WINDOWS (no, not computer Windows...windshields etc.).
Been using CA's since they came out with them and have had no issues........Ron

Neuhausr

Hi Gray Beard,
I was perusing the blogs this evening hoping to find some information about possible allergic reaction in our hobby. Much to my surprise it appears to be fairly common with CA. In your post you state that it gives you a cold.
I have been suffering over the last few months from cold like symptoms just about every time I start up building. My symptoms are mostly a stuffy nose. just like a cold and it lasts for approximately 2-3 days. For a while I did not make the connection but am glad to know that CA does cause a bad reaction with some people and that I am not just a sickey.
I like working with CA as it is fast and efficient. I wonder if some sort of mask or ventilator would work? I did use a cheap carpenter's mask the other night and it did not work. ( I have the cold like symptoms to prove it)
Yours or anyone else's thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks