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  1. #1
    Revy's Avatar
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    Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    I have lucked out in acquiring an 80" Byron's Cap 21. It was NIP with everything as Diane packed it in Dec 1988. The only thing removed where the owners manual and some paperwork, but all in tact and complete. A jem of a find! It has the revisions included as well. The only things missing are a couple of screws, lost in the count, I'm sure. Right, Diane?

    The instructions are a bit hard to fallow due to the fact its mostly written! The few grainy photos are generalized and are in no real order. The manual is supplemented with a bunch of drawings, some full size others to scale but no real "blueprint" set.

    The manual refers to a fiberglass kit and that is what I intend to do. How, I'm not sure ...yet. I'm lookin at doing some assembly then shipping it off to guy who 'glass', but unsure as I'm finding stuff that has to be done as the glassing is taking place...I'll explain later, when I get to it.

    I am going to add carbon fiber where I can in place of some wood, the wings to be specific about one. 1/4" square tubed CF in place of the 1/4" x 1/4" spruce reinforcement strip on either side of each 36" wing.

    I will use a 3MM TOC 53 for power.

    http://www.electrodynam.com/rc/3mm/index.shtml

    Its 175mm height will fit nicely inside the cowl, providing 5-1/2 hp.

    As for control surface servos I'm still looking. The design w/ 'glass is said to be about 17 lbs with a Quadra motor.

    My intentions are mixed. It will make for a great scale aerobatic plane, but I also would like to be able to "toss it around" 3D like a bit. I'll need some idea's before I start putting epoxy to foam.
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  2. #2
    Revy's Avatar
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    The manual is a bit scattered, hence the instruction at the beginning to read the entire manual first.

    I started with the fuse as I am waiting for the square carbon tubes from my LHS along with some other key items.

    The fuse is basically already built, dry fit in the photos.

    The elevator is on a common aluminum shaft and it is controlled with a 1/4" fiberglass tube. There is no instruction as to how the rod is put together in the fuse assembly section. This is the scattered part. Its in the wing and aileron installation section! The manual definitely describes a lot, but can be hard to read and fallow.

    The holes for the elevator rod in that foam just didn't look like they could sustain alot of rod action back and forth. I felt it needed a little more durable. I found a couple of nylon 75 ohm cable spigot protectors off a new splitter fit perfect and were the right depth. They have a bit of a lip on them too. Just had to drill a 5/16" hole in the center of each and CA'd into place.

    The 'glass skin will help keep them in as well as I had recessed them to be flush with the surface. The 'glass rod will get support mid fuse later in construction after I figure out a servo lay-out, cuz I'm not to keen on theirs. The rudder is pull-pull, theirs is with ny-rod for which I will go with a wire set up.
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  3. #3
    Moderator Deadeye's Avatar
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    Hi. Mine is balsa sheeted and covered in Monokote. I used a servo on each elevator half, and a pull pull on the rudder. Everything else is pretty much stock. Mine weighs 18 pounds with a Homelite 45 and a Sullivan smoke system.

    Keep the speed up on this bird, especially on landing. When I get complacent or bored in the hobby, I dust off the 21 to scare the crap out of myself.
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build


    ORIGINAL: Deadeye

    Hi. Mine is balsa sheeted and covered in Monokote. I used a servo on each elevator half, and a pull pull on the rudder. Everything else is pretty much stock. Mine weighs 18 pounds with a Homelite 45 and a Sullivan smoke system.

    Keep the speed up on this bird, especially on landing. When I get complacent or bored in the hobby, I dust off the 21 to scare the crap out of myself.


    Nice job, Deadeye. Folks not familiar with this forum should keep in mind that you actually had to build these models yourself. Ditto the finishing job.

    To me, just my opinion, mind you, the Byron models were aimed more at the scale enthusiast and less at the performance enthusiast. Me, I was a fledgling pattern flyer when I bought my Byron CAP 21 and I was looking more toward the performance side of the equation. I bought a souped up Quadra Q-35 from Tom Rausch (hope I spelled his name correctly) and began assembly. The first thing that soured my stomach was the firewall thickness, but I went with it, figuring the folks at Byron knew what they were doing. They did.

    The second thing that bothered me was that the fuselage sides did not match (molded foam) but a fair amount. I should have called Byron and talked to them about it, but I didn't. I ended up putting it up on the shelf and eventually sold it to a friend without assembling it, when I realized that it would never fly as I had anticipated. Back then, there were not many choices for engines that I could afford. Today would be a different matter entirely. I'll bet the new DLE 30 would be fantastic in that model. I wish I had my old one back again. I'd get her flying this time.


    Ed Cregger
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  5. #5
    Revy's Avatar
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    Deadeye, thats kinda what I had in mind with the servo layout. Thanks for posting that pic! Would you be able to post a pic on the split elevator? I was re-thinking that 'glass rod set up by wanting to put the servo in the tail. Sharp covering job, btw! I like patriotic themes.

    Sheeting with balsa, eh. I'm kinda keen on the 'glass, but which would be lighter in the end?

    The fuse halves got a good mating sand job and fit together rather well once you get the molded protrusions from the injection process is removed.

    A 30cc...you think that would be enough? A 50+ cc'r will fit, so thats why I choose such a beast. The TOC was recommended by another member.
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  6. #6
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    ORIGINAL: Deadeye

    Keep the speed up on this bird, especially on landing. When I get complacent or bored in the hobby, I dust off the 21 to scare the crap out of myself.

    LOL, LOL [X(] Sounds like it is just what the doctor ordered for u Jay!! he he. Knees shakin, thumbs twichin and about to hurl. I can't wait for this! ROFL
    Tom N. Pilot-RC 35% Yak-54 DLE111, & 30% Yak-54 DLE55, & 19% Yak-54, TF P47 S115, *BUSA DR1 DLE30, CG Ulti Brotherhood #28

  7. #7
    Revy's Avatar
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    Don't worry, Tom, I like a little speed on approach. It'll be a Vernon bird...I'll go as scale as I can, like you suggested.

    Would placing a carbon strip in between the halves be of any benefit? I was thinking of one along the bottom seam and one at the turtle deck seam and cockpit to firewall seam on top.
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  8. #8
    Revy's Avatar
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    From my mis-placed thread;

    ORIGINAL: cap10b

    Revy,
    You won't find any threads on Cap 21, here or the other place Flying Ginants. Your it buddy. I've posted on my thread, Zimpro 96'' cap21 and no body reply's.

    I'm glad there is somebody else that has a big Cap21 besides me. I hope you glass the fuse and wings, when you do I would'nt use the normal ''Glassing Flow'' epoxy, instead use clear epoxy paint. Like Hobby Poxy or Glass Kote or Nelson Epoxy paint.

    The ''Glassing Flow'' epoxy is too heavy even thinned 20% on top of the 20% it's already thinned from normal epoxy resin.
    This is going to be a fun project to watch.

    As for 3D I wouldnt get your hopes up, what motor do you plan to use? Mine went from Brison 2.4 to 3W-50I to 3MM TOC 53 to Braveheart 50. The Braveheart 50 is the one it flew with. I didnt try to hover but I bet it will, however it's not the hover I worry about its the recovery that is tricky. LOL My plane surprisingly flew great and slows down with those long wings. It's in paint right now when I get it back it should look like the attached pic.


    Good Luck.

    Johnny




    A 2 part paint epoxy?

    What weight of cloth would you recommend?
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    When I suggested the DLE 30, I was thinking of foregoing the fiberglass and paint finish and going with plastic film covering only.

    The Byron CAP 21 will perform the same maneuvers of its full size counterpart, if you keep the weight down and the power reasonably high. Having flown both heavy and light versions of the same model(s) many different times, I'll go for the lighter, slightly less powerful version every time.

    Fuel proofing the interior of the model is of utmost importance. Should any gasoline come into contact with the white foam, the result will instantaneously be a nasty sludge that contributes absolutely no strength structurally.

    Frankly, "the best" engine for this model, for the reason stated above, might be something like an OS 1.60FX or a Super Tigre G2300 1.4 CID glow engine. At least you wouldn't have to worry about a fuel leak dissolving your model. Additionally, the OS 1.60FX has an excellent reputation for providing lots of power without burning all that much fuel.


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  10. #10
    Moderator Deadeye's Avatar
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    Sorry it took so long to back to you guys. I've included picture of the elevator linkages, and the non stock engine box that I assembled. I also included pics of the fuel/smoke area. Ask questions if you have them, and I will try to answer them for you. I used Freightliner truck grill gaurd mounts for vibration isolation. They worked great! Both fuel and smoke tanks are 14 oz, and I get way more flight time than I can handle with that much fuel, and about 2-3 minutes of good thick smoke.
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    I used EconoKote only (now Towers lighteset plastic covering). Never had any problems.
    Also used a Super Tiger 3000 for power. Plenty of power.
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  12. #12
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    Those are nice!

    I did some work already. Got the fuse halves epoxied with the stock elevator system. Getting it as far as I can before I 'glass it. I will do that mod of yours. I like the lack of the hinge cover on the rudder. I was wondering how far I had to sand and trim and sand some more to get it to fit and pivot proper. I am now gonna ditch that. Good thing its still tighter than a nuns....!

    I'll cut out that elevator rod in favor of the two servo set-up.

    That boxed motor/tank try is awesome!!! Got me some werk to do!

    Thanks Deadeye!

    Still waiting on those CF square tubes from my LHS. Hope to hear soon! Haven't even trimmed the aluminum spars, yet.

    That manual is vague...hard to read...still haven't seen mention of the canopy strips yet, don't think I will! The quality of the mold is something to question as well. I dunno if it was 21 years of collecting dust in someones basement or if the kits were all the same. The 'glass work in the cowl and pants is top notch though!
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build


    ORIGINAL: sebo

    I used EconoKote only (now Towers lighteset plastic covering). Never had any problems.
    Also used a Super Tiger 3000 for power. Plenty of power.

    Ya did good, Sebo. That's a beautiful model.


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  14. #14
    Revy's Avatar
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    Sebo...is that Paddington Bear flying that thing?! The boy pointed it out...he's 3 1/2!
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    Naw. It's a farmer doll head that I got in a craft shop.

  16. #16
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    Hey guys, here's a link to the maiden flight of my CAP 21. I botched the landing, and I had to have the thread locked because of two jerks who posted on it. Enjoy!
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  17. #17
    Revy's Avatar
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    You rock, brother![8D]

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_25...tm.htm#2530163

    One thing has got me scratching my knoggin'. The Robarts on the rudder are supposed to have the lil' aluminum tubes crimped on. There is no way in H-E-double hockey sticks they will go on. There are 6 lil' pieces of rubber tubing that will work if you slide those over the Robarts and then the tube. There is no mention of it in the manual. Are they to be epoxied together then slid into the V-stab?
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  18. #18
    Moderator Deadeye's Avatar
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build


    ORIGINAL: RevyMaxx

    You rock, brother![8D]

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_25...tm.htm#2530163

    One thing has got me scratching my knoggin'. The Robarts on the rudder are supposed to have the lil' aluminum tubes crimped on. There is no way in H-E-double hockey sticks they will go on. There are 6 lil' pieces of rubber tubing that will work if you slide those over the Robarts and then the tube. There is no mention of it in the manual. Are they to be epoxied together then slid into the V-stab?
    Hey, cool! I forgot about that thread! I can't remember for the life of me what I did with my rudder. I just looked at the spare (they send a spare rudder to practice covering film to foam), and can't really see what they have going on with the notches and crap. It looks like hell, if you ask me. I'm betting I cut that off and glued balsa to the LE of the rudder after I sheeted it. And then just drilled for robarts like normal. I would think 3/4 inch balsa LE would work just fine for that.

    My kit was missing most of the hardware at the swap meet I bought it at ($20!!). I didn't get the aluminum tubes, or the rubber tubing. Can you take some pictures, and maybe we could all collectively figure it out?
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  19. #19
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    Deadeye,
    Congratulations, great maiden flight, good landing I think that field was rough as a cobb and you hit a sink hole or something.

    Hope there wasnt too much damage.

    Nice plane

    Johnny

    Revy - I got my Cap back from paint........its gonna be nice.
    I ran out of Altitude, Airspeed and Ideas !

  20. #20
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build


    ORIGINAL: cap10b

    Deadeye,
    Congratulations, great maiden flight, good landing I think that field was rough as a cobb and you hit a sink hole or something.

    Hope there wasnt too much damage.

    Nice plane

    Johnny

    Revy - I got my Cap back from paint........its gonna be nice.

    Pics, man! Looking forward to them!

    Deadeye- You guys have to get a grader and roller on that runway of yours! I'm with you, D, a couple of beer ain't gonna hurt especially if it calms the guy flying down. LOL I'd be nervous too. I guess thats why its called a bottle of confidence Twist off cap #3 ,lol, and the radio goes away! There are other things goin' on that other people should be concerned of. Illegal drugs being consumed on/off site. You want to fly with a stoner or a guy who had a beer? I choose the latter anyday.
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  21. #21
    Moderator Deadeye's Avatar
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    That video is over 4 years old. The airstrip was fairly new back then. It is groomed very nicely now.
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    No alcohol, guys....You may be able to handle it well but if some butt-head that can't handle it sees you doing it, he/she may just do it and cause an accident.
    Protect yourselves and your field.
    You can wait until you are done flying. It aint an addiction.
    Take care, Ron

  23. #23
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    ORIGINAL: sebo

    No alcohol, guys....You may be able to handle it well but if some butt-head that can't handle it sees you doing it, he/she may just do it and cause an accident.
    Protect yourselves and your field.
    You can wait until you are done flying. It aint an addiction.
    Take care, Ron
    Flying is addicting!

    I totally agree. Its all relative to the situation...responsible common sense dictates. The beer comes out only at the end of the day when the last few members remain for clean up. A good maiden deserves a cold pint in celebration!


    Back on topic...those Robart extensions are complete. The aluminum tubes epoxied onto the Robarts seem pretty strong the way I figured it out. There is no call for those pieces of rubber tubing anywhere else, so we'll see. The V-stab and rudder ready for 'glass.

    Working on the H-stab now. I will post some pics shortly, camera is away w/ the wife for the aft. I think I'll do a single servo in the tail. I've never had a split elevator unless I busted something, lol. Other than aileron mixing and redundancy, are there other benefits in going dual?
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  24. #24
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build


    ORIGINAL: RevyMaxx

    ORIGINAL: sebo

    No alcohol, guys....You may be able to handle it well but if some butt-head that can't handle it sees you doing it, he/she may just do it and cause an accident.
    Protect yourselves and your field.
    You can wait until you are done flying. It aint an addiction.
    Take care, Ron
    Other than aileron mixing and redundancy, are there other benefits in going dual?
    Not really. I did it for weight savings and simplicity.
    Randy Rossmiller, member, Golden Triangle Flyers
    Theres no such thing as too much power. Member, Club Saito
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #52

  25. #25
    Revy's Avatar
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    RE: Byron Originals Cap 21 Build

    Oh hey, look at what I just saw...http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/N...roduct_id=4185.
    Yet another motor option, argh...lol.
    There is a cool twin cylinder that would look pretty neat. I wonder if it fits. hmmmmm
    Jedi\'\'s AW Edge 540/ DLE55 w/can
    Pilot 29% S\'\'bach/Jtech DLE 55
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