G.Barber

My Feedback: (1)

I too, tend to agree Prop guy. I have an 8 year old son and a 5 year old daughter. They, and their mother, are the top priorities in my life. What little time I have left after working sometimes 10 hours a day, I like to spend with them.

However, after the kids go to bed, My wife does her own hobbies, so I have time for mine. Now, it is at least 8 or 9 o'clock at night. If I was to try to build a kit, it would take several months, and I just don't have that kind of time available right now.

That being said, I have built a number of kits- most before the kids were born, and I do enjoy building also, but there just isn't enough hours in a day at this stage of my life to ENJOY building.

JMHO

fly24-7

This is the same old tired argument that's all over RCU. What makes the hobby great is also it's biggest problem. People are so passionate (and in some cases, closed minded) about their point of view that they crap all over everyone who don't see things their way.

The issue is quite simple. If 75 out of 100 customers bought kits over ARFs, you'd have 8 pages of kits and two of ARFs. And yes it's about making money. If you don't think it should be about making money, ask yourself how important it is for the company you work for to make money. If they didn't make money, you'd stop getting paychecks.

I don't begrudge those who have the time and interest to kit or scratch build. It's an important part of the hobby and these models are usually truly unique. But, not everyone has the time, skill, or interest to invest themselves in such projects. I personally have two young kids. Family and work come first. If I kit or scratch built my models, It'd take me forever to finish one and I'd have little, if any time to actually fly.

This is a reality of times today. Not everyone in the hobby has the free time available to build. If we didn't have the availability of ARFs we have today, this hobby would be in BIG TROUBLE. Additionally, cost between ARFs and kits are for the most part a non factor. No financial advantage to building a kit.

If you want a better selection of kits, BUY MORE KITS! Create demand and retailers will fulfill it. That's business 101.

GSNut

My Feedback: (8)

Try out a Kit from a Quality U.S Company.... always something going on with Bruce esp. his Vortex Delta which is Awesome ! And flys like a trainer or as you wish, but is big and uses a good .60 2s glo (not recomended tor those with mini cars.)

www.btemodels.com

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

Tower Hobbies seems to be shaving the number of ARFs it offers as quickly as it is reducing the number of kits. Balsa airplanes of all kinds are dwindling rapidly in variety and are instead being replaced by small foam aircraft and electric helicopters. Many pilots now think ARFs are too much trouble; instead they're collecting Bind-n-Fly and receiver-ready models instead.

Actually, I'm surprised that anyone would criticize Tower Hobbies about their kit selection; I've never seen another distributor or reseller that carried anywhere near as many kits as Tower Hobbies, even at their current level. You can still buy kits from House of Balsa, Dynaflite, Great Planes, Top Flite, Goldberg, Tower Hobbies, Dumas, Multiplex, Duraplane, GWS, Peck Polymers, and U.S. Aircore all at Tower Hobbies. It's disheartening to see that Tower has dropped Guillow's and Sig for the time being; hopefully both brands will be back in wide distribution soon.

Tower Hobbies/Hobbico doesn't seem to be cutting back on kits to make room for more ARFs, it seems to be consolidating too many Hobbico brands while trying to respond to market pressures. Once you get past Hobbico, Balsa USA, Sig, and Ace Hobby, it gets pretty tough to even find kits for sale any more. The number two and three distributors in North America carry almost nothing at all for airplane kits. If any other company sells half as many kits as Hobbio/Tower Hobbies does, I'd love to hear about them!

Edit: In fact, I went to Tower's website right after writing this, and I was amused to read the following:

"Attention kit builders: Tower Hobbies carries 108 model airplane kits."

I don't think that includes a lot of the rubber-powered free flight models, either. 108 kits only accounts for the RC kits. There are another 50 or so free flight kits of high quality from Dumas and Peck Polymers that aren't included in that total.

I'd like to officially proclaim Tower Hobbies as "Best Kit Reseller on the Planet" and challenge folks to prove me wrong with Tower selling 170 kits including the Dumas and Peck Polymer free flight models.

carrellh

You're right. Even if you subtract out the ones that are not in stock, they still have a bigger selection than any site I am aware of.

You do have to scroll all the way to the bottom to find it, but, they even included a link to the "RC Kit" search.

Nathan_L

That includes FF and rubber band powered as well. If you look at a Tower sale about 5 years or more you would see a multitude of brands of not only kits but ARF's. Tower has turned into the outlet of Hobbico since then. Sure before they heavy Hobbico and it's brands like Top Flite and Great Planes etc...but now if you look thru the ARF's and kits it's down to the only companies that Hobbico owns and nobody else.

stevenmax50

My Feedback: (1)

Sounds like I wasnt very clear when I started this thread.   I only meant to observe how many ARF's were offered versus kits.  This looks alot differant from my first incarnation in RC. 
I am 50 years old now and have an empty nest.  i also own my own business and as such have all the free time I want now. 
I first got into this hobby in my 20's.  Working for Braniff airlines dictated most of my time and so I wound up selling the 3 planes I had built over 2 years.
  I tried to get into the hobby again at 40 years old but I wound up working 747's 20 days on and 10 days off commuting to Korea for my 20 work days.  Once again no time for a hobby.  If ARF's had been available in 1986 I may have tried them. 
Now that I have the time to build, my impression, brought on by things like 8 pages of ARF's and 2 of kits, is that kits are a dying breed.  I surf tower's site almost daily.  I am still so new since I returned to RC that I do not know half the sites to surf for RC stuff.  I have actually bought almost everything I have from Tower.  I do have an engine coming from Hobby People.  They had a great price. 
I see there are some of you guys who have been in this hobby for a lotta years and have seen all the changes (good and bad)  and know all the behind the scene stuff.  Stuff like who owns who.  Unless you have been around awhile none of that is obvious when you get a catalog in the mail the looks alot differant from what you remember from many years ago. 
I have yet to even hear about an upcoming swap meet.  I sure would like to go to one of those and see what kits I can pick up.
Once again, and for the record.  Nobody is bashing Tower.  Just making an observation of the times we live in. 

GaryHarris

Tower Hobbies has done several things for the RC consumer. They forced the LHS's to lower their prices. But I live in the 4th largest city in the US and the closest LHS is a 40 minute drive away. I come from 18 years of RC cars before getting heavy into planes and in those years have seen many race tracks and hobby shops close down because of online shopping.

Tower gets the blame but the truth is?

mschulz531

Stevenmax50, I have to agree with your point: Tower does certainly offer less kits now than they did in the past!

As a returning member to the hobby at 47yrs old, I skipped the last 15 year because of my family. Now my kids are older and one is out of the house and married, so I've got some time and I'm really enjoying getting back into R/C planes - flying and building. I was amazed at how many planes are ARFs now....since it is going on winter in Chicago, I'm looking for a kit to build over the winter...I'd like to build a .60 size kit, and I've found a few as I search the forums and web sites. I even found Advantage Hobby is selling the Great Planes Extra 300S .60 size kit, and I'm thinking seriously about picking this up as my winter project. Having said that, I'm also attracted to some of the ARF models for next spring when the weather gets nice again, and I won't want to spend as much time building. So I appreciate both kits and ARFs for different reasons.

I hope kits don't die off entirely...I believe there is still a good market for them!

G.Barber

My Feedback: (1)

I can't see kits dying out completely, at least in the near future, but as the kids who have grown up knowing ONLY ARFs get older, kit building may be gone forever. I would be sad to see kits go away completely, and I do hope later in life (after the kids are grown and out of the house) I have more time to build. But, for at least the next 13-15 years, ARFs are my way to go, unless I get some time during the cold Minnesota winter months!

I do have a Smith Mini plane kit sitting in my basement waiting to get built- we'll see if I find time...

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

As a kid I used to set up a coffee table in the living room and do my building on planes and car kits. I was still with the family but it was my time to build too. For the no time to build people give it a try. Sanding and covering {Clear Dope} were done outside so that really wasn't family time but the job always got done.

BelAirBob

Wind the clock back several years and a forum started on RCUniverse to bring back the Great Planes Ultra Sport kits. Evidently there was enough demand and the 40 and 60 sizes were rekitted and sold by Tower. I bought several and loads of others bought multiple kits So they do listen if there is enough demand. They are in business to make money and sell what people want to buy. I am sure they know exactly how many of each kit were sold each year and the ones that did not sell were the ones probably dropped.

Another great kit manufacturer I did not see mentioned in this thread is Midwest. I have enjoyed building many of their kits over the years, but they have added nothing in recent years, probably because there are just not enough buyers for kit buildings. There are plenty of people who talk about building, but do not put their money where their mouths are.

joeheren

My Feedback: (11)

i have to agree. i to have a household to take care of. if not for the arf i dont think me and my boys would fly. boys are 8 and 12

but i started only a few years ago, and yes a tower trainer arf that i was told would be a great first plane(older guy that got me to join the ama and his club) and have loved the flying side, but i would love to build one from plans someday. maybe when i retire. he also only kit or plan builds all of his.


just thought i would chime in

all that said Tower is top notch

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

I know what you're saying, I hate Tower too!

Yak18

My Feedback: (11)

Ya gotta get with the program guys...ya don't buy kits at Tower. Ya buy kits on EBAY and RCU!

ddemu

As someone who's grown up in the hobby, it's quite dissapointing to see where Tower Hobbies has come from and where it is today.
The entire hobby is kind of the same way. My father and I used to use the Tower catalog for everything and didn't use anything else. Of course there are more choices these days, but I'm dissapointed with the quality, or maybe the sturdiness of the ARF models as they are built so light that repair is difficult if they need it (mine usually need some form of repair soon rather than later).

I've decided not to buy any more electric design ARF's, but will build and then convert glow power designed kits as they are better build and more durable.

cloudancer03

My Feedback: (22)

I read my tower talk like everone does.and I look to them for accesories and lots of parts etc.even have had the club savers membership.I started buying from tower when they literally operated from a gargae back in the beggining of the 1970's.and I dare say I have bought literally hundreds of rc supplies and even a kit or two from them.my last futaba 9c radio was bought from tower.I bought a new 2.4 system from my local lhs and it was a spectrum.tower has good service and runs a respectable company.maybe there are not a lot of kits for the simple reason not many hobbyists want to build anymore.plus the blasa to build them became cost prohibitive and the market has gone another direction.

I do agree that horizons website could be vastly improved to make it user friendly.our hobby is a very specialty oriented group.when was the last time you visited your LHS and they told you its very hard to compete with tower or a major online company.the internet makes it very scary for anyone to want to operate a local shop. it sounds like loyalty has disappeared and it has.but tower is a good place3 to do business with and I occasionally will use it.I do try to support my local shop alot

I think tower is a great place for a fledging or newbie.they have great arfs for trainers and even intermediate level flyers . I have started branching into scale planes and admittedly they havent got the goods but thats not a criticism just a fact .but general or sport flying they are very good and for that matter so is horizon.

I also fly electrics and for the average electric enthusiast tower and horizon are fine but I love my hobbyshop 3d and they are years ahead of mass marketers.as for kits I just looked at a brian taylor set of plans and will get a short kit and build a gorgeous new plane.kits are out there just look .

ArcticCatRider

My Feedback: (6)

I don't talk Tower anymore these days. I used to order from them, but then realized I'm more of a hobby shop kinda guy.

My Tower stint lasted 3 years or so...no more. Not cause they do a bad job...I just prefer not to patronize "big box" outfits when I don't need to.

Besides, I don't like ARFs or park flyers. But it's ok if you do....we're still cool.

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

I hope your right, but there's a good chance in 13-15 years we'll be the ones building the ARFs and the Chinese will be spending their time flying planes and having internet discussions about the quality of ARFs made in the USA.[:'(]

Archie League

As a kit manufacturer, you can sell kits to Tower Hobbies and make pennies for your effort. Or you can go it alone and run your own website. Tower has practicedthis predatory behavior for decades. Give your kits to us at virtually no profit or we will seperate you from your demographic and drop your kit line. Many manufactures have given up and even sold their lines to Tower/Great Planes. The catalog got thinner and thinner. This was by design. It was a conscience decision by the Tower management. They meant to take control of the kit market.What they did wasnearly kill it.

That is whyTower has so few kits to offer. They didn't play nice.

Nathan_L

I don't think Tower would sell a significant more of kits if they dropped the price by half - past the first run on what they already had anyway. It's just flat out demand or lack of.

They just don't sell. Go to a hobby shop that still stocks kits and you are likely to find some in there that have been on the same shelf for a couple of years at least. Some more than that.

When people say they have no time to build kits what they really mean to say is building is just not a priority to them. I don't care either way but people act like suddenly in the last 10 years peoples lives are so much busier than they were 10+ years ago. They're not. They're just busy doing stuff they weren't doing 15 years ago.

Nathan_L

A guy I used to fly with said to me "I sure the Chinese don't judge us Americans by all the crap we buy from them".

sylvaner

How did we every find time for the hobby before ARF's? I had a job, wife & kids that took up a great deal of time and I still managed to find time to build. If you didn't build you didn't fly.

These days I have a job, same wife & kids and now grand kids and I still find time to build. I guess what I'm saying is now you have a choice between building a kit or buying a ARF.

BelAirBob

Part of it is that society has changed. Many are working two jobs to make ends meet or working longer hours. Parents are also endlessly driving kids to sporting events, concerts etc, etc that never existed when I was growing up. Then you have split up couples with double families and double duties. I think a lot of people are just burnt out at the end of the day, but like anything, you can find the time if it becomes a priority.

I did a quick survey at our field yesterday. Everyone I spoke to has no intention of ever building a plane again. They all answered they can get a better looking, cheaper one out of the box so why build? The kit manufacturers know the same thing and why invest scarce money in new products that people fanticize buying but will never put down the money. Come on....this is common sense. There probably will always be a market for some kits, but the days of hundreds to choose from are gone. I am slowly stocking up on kits to build should I ever get to retire and have time.

bob

dumorian

My Feedback: (6)

Yes, the times have changed. There's a lot to keep us occupied, such as internet forums about airplane modeling and flying! We keep going through the cheap labor markets though, first it was Japan, now stuff from Japan costs the same as stuff made here. Then Tiawan and on and on. At the moment it's China, but signs of this changing are slowly coming about. So, eventually, our ARFs will cost more and kits won't seem like such a bad value. After all, I think I might save enough on a kit vs. an ARF to pay myself maybe somewhere between 10 and 25 cents an hour for my work! Hmmm.... that might be a little bit optimistic. There's the economics.... time and money... Would you rather build or fly?

I have built a couple of kits. The first a Senior Miss Stick, just to see if it appealed to me. Yes, it as a lot of fun, but some areas still test my patients. The next was a Dynaflight Super Decathlon. And yes, some areas still tested my patients... mostly the covering/finishing portion. It really is hard to beat the higher end ARFs at covering. When someone does this all day long they get really good at it! I have a GeeBee Manu Tiger Moth to build from kit which isn't started.

At this point, I've looked through the kits and one might still land on my porch, but nothing really grabs me to the point of taking on the kit. Now, on the other hand, building from plans is a whole different matter! There are a lot of neat plans available. If you do this, you will have a model that not all that many folks have. I purchased a set of Hostetler plans for a Stinson, but then wound up buying the model in a nearly built state... yup, I cheated... but it sure is going to be nice! So, I keep pounding the 'plans' sites and will likely do something from there next. I like big planes and the economy of building from plans seems to be better for the larger models. I keep hearing mixed reviews of the kit cutters. It seems that this is an area where a good Bizrate is non-existent. Websites for most kit cutters are horrid. No pricing, no delivery time expectations and then there are the stories. I have enough frustrations in everyday life and don't really want to be chasing a half dozen ribs for 6 months. If a kit cutter came to the forefront on the web with good info and good customer service, I would gladly deal with them even if they cost substantially more.

So, I guess I'll be headed down this road for my next build, unless something small catches my eye that I can't live without. There are a few large model kits... like a 1/3 scale Cub that might land on my porch. Otherwise, I'm going to keep scouring the 'plans' sites to see what I might find.