EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

I'm curious as to how the cost of balsa will fluctuate, since US manufacturers dissapeared.

Other businesses use balsa, but kit cutters are going to be the only ones to cater to the builder.

I hope companies like Sig, National Balsa, Balsa USA, etc. don't stop offering cut wood. Kit cutters would have to tool to cut sheeting as well. Costs will only rise.

ARUP

My choice in vote would be 'draw plans then build'. We, as modelers, will do what it takes to get our 'hobby fix' if the desire is strong enough! Like everything else, there is a learning curve.

davidgeorge212

You cant use space as a reason you dont build. I am away at college and live in about a 15' x 15' efficiency appartment. I am storing a couple built planes and I am currently building 2 planes right now, 1 from plans and another from a short kit. And as far as time, I am a full time student as well.[8D]

frets24

My Feedback: (15)

I guess I'm with scalecraft (above). I've built numerous kits and enjoy the experience of seeing the box of balsa become recognizable as a plane, but I have also bashed a few ARFs and I'm leaning more in that direction now.
To me an ARF is merely a starting point...someone elses "preped canvass" waiting for an artist to finish the masterpiece. I can get plenty of scratch and plan building in as well...Just had an 85% totaled crash of one of my oldest and favorite flyers, battery connection failed on the backside of a loop-resultstraight down at WOT from @ 250' and an impressive spray of balsa/covering confetti at impact! The kit is no longer available, so now I have the plans, the remains, the original remains of the kit's diecut sheets, a stack of balsa and plywood, and the ideas, time, and desire to rebuild it and make some of the mods to make it better than the original kit. Elmo will yet ride in his HobbyDynamics Sportee 40 again!
Whilst doing that project there's a Royal P-51 kit in the finishing stages, a scratch/plan built 'clipped wing' for my GreatPlanes Cub (wanted to keep the full wing intact as well for float flying), and a no name KI-61 'tony' ARF pretty well deconstructed and awaiting mods and reassembly.
I really like the building process and dreaming of the flying, along with a healthy dose of the actuall flying....put me at 60%build(50/50 scratch-ARF)and30%flying...the remaining 10% is reserved for planning and daydreaming

lflf

My Feedback: (1)

I believe kits will be back. I've been watching the auction prices for kits on ebay and they are getting pretty steep. Also the prices of ARF's is bound to go up. They are probably artificially low and I've already noticed the great planes big stik now costs $50 more than it used to. All the balsa wood in a kit only costs $20 or so. The laws of supply and demand will take over, and coupled with the increasing prices of ARF's I think it will be worthwhile for many to start building kits again. I am almost tempted at this point to put my band saw to work myself and begin producing some simple kits. Stiks and such things. I'm sure some other enterprising individuals are going to think about this too. Many of the old designs that were easy and fun to build as kits are now really expensive at auction. There will always be some that want to build them, and experienced modelers know that a kit you build yourself is usually sturdier and easier to repair.

zac137

My only complaint with ARF's is they come already built.  I am one to modify a kit to my liking, making weak points strong and putting my own design ideas into the plane. When I look at a kit built airplane I feel satisfied, I don't feel that way about ARF's.

Ron Stahl

My Feedback: (12)

I love to build! Its just a part of who I am as a modeler and as a professional R@D builder for a Defence Contractor I earn a living at it. I would be willing to sell some of my collection( I have over 60 kits) at reasonable prices just because I would rather see them get built ; rather than thrown away when I am gone. Contact me by PM for a list of my kits that I would be willing to sell and prices .You pay the shipping costs as that is just way to big a variable depending on the size of the box and how far away you are from me.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

As a kid I designed and built my own planes from scratch if I couldn't come up with the money for a kit, that's more work then I want to do these days. I started buying plans and just redrawing them to fit my needs, it's a lot easier then designing and drawing your own plane but it is true scratch building. Plans are cheap, wood is cheap and it only takes a few hours to cut your own kit. If you are good enough to build without instructions then plans building is the way to go. I enjoy it as much or more then kit building but if I can get a kit cheap enough then I go for it. Either or, I enjoy building.

lflf

My Feedback: (1)

The internet is a great resource for plans. I just do a search and bring up some plans. Some you can print out full scale like Dave Fritzke's page, others you can enlarge with a calculator and a ruler. Another good resource is the instruction manuals that abound. A lot of them have the parts of the plane laid out-just print that one out and with your handy ruler and calculator-presto-another current design in your hangar. For curvy, hard to reproduce parts-llike a traditional stik rudder-just blow the pic up on your handy computer-lay a piece of wax paper or some other transparent film over the screen, and copy it with a magic marker. Works every time. I've actually just been "lofting up" my own designs for years, but again these are pretty simple stik and quickee 500 types. I do believe (hint to great planes, etc) that if a kit manufacturer came out with a reasonably priced kit, like a stik, that wasn't weird, and had a low parts count, some would start building them. What I mean by not weird is a standard fuse with dural gear, a hatch covered compartment for the fuel tank, and a rubber banded on wing with a bolt on option for the really clever- made from balsa with slab sides, solid tail, and a d-tube wing. My beef with current kits is they seemed to be either designed for builders that have great skill, and have a very high parts count, or they are designs that are a bit weird for your average person, like profile things, or with wings glued to the body-very unhandy. Whenever a kit like a vintage stik or midwest clone of various sorts goes on auction- it is usually now bid over a hundred bucks. That simple kit has little balsa and could be easily produced at low cost, and start a lot of guys new to the hobby building as opposed to buying arfs. Just my two cents and maybe that's all its worth.

hsukaria

Ron,

You mentioned that you have some kits for sale. Would you happen to have a Sig Wonder kit? I am also looking for a wing for a Sig 4* 40, it is an ARF, but the kit built can be adapted.

Thanks,

Husein Sukaria

aldelp

My Feedback: (76)

All parts of the hooby have a place. I enjoy flying ARF's and yet take more enjoyment in building from a kit and then flying it. I take even more enjoyment from building from a set of plans and then flying it. I see a good deal of people in the hobby who would rather buy a plane as close to ready to fly as possible. One of my everyday fliers for YEARS were the GP big stick 40, Twist 60 and Frenzy. They fly great with little mantainance and give me the time I want to build from kits and plans.

Anyone who can build from a kit can go a little further and build from plans. The only thing I usually have to do different is search around for canopies and landing gears. Most things needed are redally available and the only addl. tool needed is a scroll saw and one can be bopught at low cost. I got mine on sale from Sears about 6 years ago and the bottom line was about $50 and cuts up to an inch thick are no problem.

I started tracing wing ribs for a liberty sport today from a set of plans from a sig kit. Tracing paper will then be rubber cemented to poster board and cut out and traced on to balsa (or whatever called for). Stacked wood is held together with common pins and cut out on the scroll saw.

Tony Hallo

When I can no longer purchase supplies to build from plans I'm taking up fishing,

hsukaria

Fishing in good weather and knitting in bad weather?

WacoNut

Thanks for the input guys, alot of good discussion and it didn't turn into an ARF bashing session.

Lets face it the glory days of kit building have past and there will be kits for many years to come but we have seen some of the best kits come and go. With any luck I will be building for many years to come.

I have to admit I do see some ARF's out there and wish they produced a kit version such as the GP Stearman, could always buy the ARF strip the covering modify the airframe as I see fit and give it a nice cloth covering job with sticthing and rivet detail but I already have a 87" Ziroli Stearman framed up waiting for me to finish it up.
Later!!
Anthony

Thatsakitbuilt

As a newcomer to the hobby I started with an interest in flying but built a Sig kit to see what was involved and discovered a love of building.
Now, I have several kits in inventory for future enjoyment and look forward to developing new skills. I would love to build from plans but am intimidated by all of the non-wood fabrication required....eg cowls, wheel pants, canopies, etc, etc. How do you more experienced builders approach that issue?

This is a very deep hobby. There is lots of enjoyment for everyone, regardless of where they lay on the ARF to scratch-builder spectrum.

Thanks

Tim
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I agree with marusha (Tim)with the above comment. I"m also newcomer. Love to build, love to fly. Gotenough tools to get a kit built, would loveto learn how to build from scratch/plans. Got a scroll saw that I couldn't cut a straight line if my life depended on it. Only used it a few times. I guess it's trial and error and you learn new skills. But it's is justintimidating on how to get started andwhat do you look for.

Cal

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

As far as cowls and wheel pants, you can make a plug and pull a mold, I might do a write up with kinnflyer about this along with "glassing 101", as far as the canopies go,....there are many ways to make one, some can be simple cub like windscreens, and others can be almost impossible to mold. The trick is to find something premade if possible, if not, learning how to vacuum form your own with a good plug. Other than that, there is no limit to what you can do when building scratch, some people just don't know the basics to get started.

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

Even if all the hobby supplies vanished, I'll still find a way to fly. I'll still have my radio gear and servos. As long as I have that I can make do. Many years back I heard of a guy that built a plane using door skins and fabric from a cloth store. No balsa. Flew it with a conversion engine. I know a racer that makes composite fuse formers for his racing planes out of 1/4" foam with glass on both sides. He says it provides plenty of strength for the racing environment and cuts like balsa. I'll find a way.
Edwin

carrellh

I voted "fly ARFs"
I've built a few kits and have one in progress but I am not interested in cutting my own kit. Sorry (not really) that bothers you but that's the way it is.

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

If you think it "bothers me",...your wrong, I own 2 arfs for the same reason, I love to build but sometimes you just need something new to fly and fast. But what do I care, the market dictates arf's are the norm and kits are fun but not worth anything if you had to cut it out yourself, I'm assuming this is what you ment. Well, you are entitled to your own opinnion, I know many that will scratch build, but contact a kit cutter to perform the task of cutting it out for them. So don't worry, you can still pay to get a "kit" made if you really wanted to.
Here's a links,....
[link]http://www.kitcutters.com/HowToOrder.htm[/link]

[link]http://www.laserlizard.com/[/link]

[link]http://www.precisioncutkits.com/[/link]

GaryHarris

When the sun sets and the day is over, all that really matters to me is that my kids and grandson are doing well, and I'm still alive and employed with a job I enjoy at 52 years old next month.



But youll never see me with a 2 stroke on an ARF!

j/k guys. What a great thread!

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

2 stroke on an arf, o-man am I in trouble with you, does gas 2 stroke count? It has two wings, that has to redem me somewhat?

GaryHarris

I'm somewhat embarrased and I apologize for my PWI. Gas 2 strokes on a large bird is something I will definitly give a shot! But not on an ARF though. 1/4 scale BUSA Pup maybe and if I could afford it, a Proctor kit running gas.

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

It's going on this, a 26cc gas.
[link]http://www.nitroplanes.com/chea12061arf.html[/link]

davidgeorge212

I couldnt resist reading about and already I am surpised. Why would they use CA hinges on a plane that big?

GaryHarris

Theres two guys sitting way too close together in the cockpit of a biplane for my taste bro. Thats definitly a two stroke! [sm=drowning.gif]