mooseflier

Well I'm putting on the last bits for my sportster right now and I have to questions for the kit builders. I'm using these little nylon hinges for the first time, with the little metal pin down the middle(I usually use the fuzzy ones that you use CA on). I've read that it's good to use epoxy for them, but Ican't think of a good way to get the epoxy down inside the hinge slot. I already cut the slots before I covered the plane. If I just put the epoxy over the slot, and then push the hinge down through the slot, I don't see how enough of the epoxy can get down deep in the hinge. Plus I'm afraid that the epoxy that remains on the outside will get into the metal/nylon part when it comes in contact with the trailing edge (or control surface leading edge). Any help here?

Second question is about the canopy. On past planes I've built, I've never been happy with the job I do joining the canopy to the plane. I either get CA everywhere on the canopy, and it makes it white and ugly, or I don't get a good seal and it falls off in the future. Ishould have put some plywood around the edge so I can screw it on, but it's too late for that now. Any thoughts? Epoxy and patience maybe?What do you all do? I'd like to make it look nice this time. The fuse is covered already, so the glue will be between monokote and the canopy.

Thanks for any advice. Can't wait to go flying tomorrow morning... should the weather allow. Not looking good up here in seattle.

shd3920

I normally dont like building planes with canopies because simply its a pain to attach, but best to use a canopy glue for that. I wouldn't use epoxy for the canopy, epoxy don't like adhering to covering material.

For the nylon pinned hinges (which I love) I use a T-pin to push the epoxy into the slots. And don't forget to coat the hinge pins with vaselin to prevent the epoxy getting on them.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Mike or Ken maybe will post one of there way cool drawings for you but to get epoxy into the hinge slot you just drill about a 3/32 hole in the slot center. Then if you use a syringe you can sort of squirt the epoxy with pressure in that center hole and it will spread. If you can find some, you want to keep your eyes open for some pacer hinge glue, good stuff but I guess they quit making it?? Oil or vaseline on that hinge pin is a good idea to keep the critters from binding. A lot of people heat up the vaseline and spread it on the pin with a small paint brush.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

several ways to glue the nylon hinges you can glue them in with Tite Bond glue just make sure to get alot in the hinge slot, it also cleans up easy with a damp paper towel before drying.
if you want to use epoxy then warm it up and it flows like water, several ways to do this
1. micro wave the 2 parts for about 5-10 sec, with the little bottle top off,shake the bottles then mix warm epoxy and drizzle it into the slots, start with 5sec. then another 5 if the epoxy hasn't loosened up enough.
2. boil some water, turn off heat, and place bottles in the water, again with the tops off, to allow for air to expand so the bottle doesn't pop.
3. mix adhesive and use a heat gun to warm glue, it will run like water.
my personal favorite is the microwave, but all the methods work well enough.
and like posted some vasaline on the hinge pin to prevent it from being glued solid.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

I use gorilla glue for nylon hinges. I've had epoxy fail too many times.
Use a hole punch to put a larger hole in the flats, and lube the hinge line as described above.
I have a syringe that I flattened out the nose of to squirt the glue into the slot, then smear it around a bit with a credit card. Spritz of water put it all togeather and wait for the foam.
Using this method I've never had any fail. I can post pix if needed but you can find them along with a lot of good information if you do a search under gorilla glue or gluing hinges.

airbusdrvr

You can attach your canopy using small screws like the ones that come with servos. If you are just screwing into balsa, drill your hole(smaller that the screw). Then insert the screw enough to make threads in the balsa. Remove the screw and then put a drop or two of CA in the hole. After the CA has hardened you can then attach your canopy and insert the screws into the hardened holes. One other point, make sure the holes drilled into the canopy are just a bit larger than the diameter of the screws so the canopy won't crack around the holes. And you can also use little nylon washers between the screw heads and the canopy.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

For canopys - canopy glue! It works much better than CA, just takes longer to cure.

I haven't used those Nylon hinges with the pin in years, they are just too much work for me and they're a PIA to align.

But when I did use them, I would scoop some epoxy up into a plastic drinking straw, then flatten the end and insert it into the slot and squeeze the epoxy in by squeezing the straw like a tube of toothpaste.

gunneredwards

My Feedback: (4)

I won't use ca hinges again. Got a corsair for christmas and on the first flight, just trimmed it out and didn't do anything stressful. Landed and one of the guys said he could hear a flutter. After inspecting the plane, found that 3 of the 6 hinges on the elevator and 2 of the 5 on the aleron had torn in half. After a couple of conversations with the manufacture, they wanted me to send the plane in, (not time or money economical), I just cut out a half inch of wood and made new control surfaces. After recovering the wing/stab, I used normal pinned hinges and after installation used 4 straight pins per hinge. never had a problem with them that way. The straight pins hold good and if needed, you can pull the pins and remove the hinges/control surface for repair if needed.
dan

mooseflier

Thanks for all the replies. Iwas in such a hurry to get the control surfaces in that I used the method described in the first post (using T pins to push the epoxy in). Ireally like the idea about drilling a hole in the slot and using some kind of method (straw, siringe, etc) to squirt the glue down in there, so I'll use that when Ido my skybolt next. I still have no assurance how much epoxy got deep in the slot using the method Idid, so this morning I'm going to stick some T pins through the TE/control surface that go through the hinge as well... make damn sure they're locked in place even if the epoxy failed on a few.

So I've never seen canopy glue... never heard of it. I'll have to check the local hobby shops. Also like airbusdrvr's idea with the CAand screws. I'll have to take some pictures soon. Should be finished in a few hours... just have the control horns for the elevators and aelerons left.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

That's why you want to use gorilla glue.

carrellh

Canopy glue...
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXR529&P=0
Looks like Elmers school glue... no idea what it really is.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

YEs, canopy glue LOOKS like Elmer's glue, but it's totally different and works great on canopies. It dries clear and rubbery.

As for CA hinges breaking, read this:

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=1180]A closer look at CA Hinges[/link]

SeamusG

pic 1 - canopy glue
pic 2 - test of canopy glue, the square balsa was glued to the balsa sheet. Abead of canopy glue about 1/8 (maybe a bit less) was run around the perimeter of the balsa square. Totally clear.

twn

I too don't like ca hinges. I now use dubro pinned. When cutting the slot in the wood be sure not to make it a tight fit, lightly snug with little friction is all u want. You want to leave a bit of room for the glue. Similar as a ca hinge slides in, perhaps a bit looser. If the slot is too loose have no fear that gorilla glue will expand and wow very strong. On my Goldberg ultimate one of the hinge slots was cut poorly, cavitated blades I guess on the slotting tool, ovaled the slot, leaving the hinge quite loose. I used the gorilla glue and wow very tough in the end.

I punch 6, additional 1/8" holes in the hinges and I scuff them up with 36 grit, the 36 grit tears up little hairs of nylon that grab to the glue like crazy. I've used epoxy and gorilla to glue them in. Both glues work very well when the additional holes are punched and the hinge is scuffed with 36 grit paper. I “LIGHTLY” vaseline the hinge center, apply a bit of heat to make the vaseline run “into” the center. To push the glue in I sand a mixing stick (popsicle stick) thin sanding with 36 grit "across" the stick not with the grain. This tears up little cross grooves and wood hairs that hold the epoxy and gorilla very well while getting the glue into the slot. I also square up the tip to maximize the spreading of glue. If using epoxy I ONLY use 30 minute, I put a blop of glue on the top of the slot and some on the stick and just work it into the slot. Glue gets over the entire slot right through. Then I wipe the TE clean with either alcohol (for epoxy) or paint thinner (for gorilla, Elmer’s ultimate etc...) Then I use my fingers to slather some glue on the hinge working it into the punched holes, and filling them, and the flat surface, but not the center pin area. This works awesome for epoxy. Then install the hinge and set it square. Don’t wipe away ANY epoxy until rubbery. With epoxy I pick it away with a broken #11 exacto when the epoxy is rubbery. With gorilla I wipe it away with a broken #11 blade, NOT A RAG, 2 or 3 times. With the foaming glue I find it gets hard to pick away or cut when wiped as it cures thick and hard rather than foamed. There will be stringers of the foaming glue left on the covering, kinda looks messy but it peals away from the covering with ease when it is cured. If you use a rag it is too easy to push the glue into the hinge center making it a pain to clean even if u have vaselined the center.

Only do one at a time, either the stab or the elevator first then attach in the same manor. This ensures perfect alignment of the hinge, and cleaning will be much easier.

I tried the above method as a test on a piece of pine and I used pliers to try to rip out the hinge all that happened was the hinge tore in half ripping only the pin out leaving the hinge in the wood. Done like this the hinge will never fail even after 10 years of use…

As far as ca hinges they too don't rip out but for me the center where it flexes wears away and I don't "over do" the ca when installing them. Some have lasted but some have failed on me.

As far as canopy attaching goes, I use the glue only when I don't care about the plane or I am CERTAIN that I will never have to remove the canopy. I mostly use #2 button head screws for 40-60 size planes and #4 for 27% to attach the canopy. The glue just works too good. If u use the glue be sure to cut holes in the covering "but not the wood underneath" so the glue can grab to something that won't pull away. You can hide this under the painted areas of the canopy.

Be warned if u use canopy glue you will have to destroy the canopy to remove it. Using heat while pealing it away can help but for me after destroying 2 canopies I have given up on canopy glue for the most part. One of those canopies was on my 27% ultimate and cost me $50 with shipping because I had to remove it, ya… ouch!

dterer

TWN - Thanks for the great detail on the hinge prepping & gluing pieces - great tips!!!

I am having problems with finding an accurate way to cut the slots for Dubro # 257 pinned hinges for my 1/4 scale Decathlon (this is my first venture into a bigger plane where CA hinges just aren't man enough). From your description of being able to adjust the "fit" of the hinge, you obviously have a good method worked out for slot cutting - would you mind sharing this??!!

dterer
KASLO, BC

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

For flat hinges the GP slot cutting machine with the wider blades works great. For hinge pins you just need the hinge pin drill guide. Befor the slot machine I used an Exacto blade first then used two of the small exacto saw blades held in a bigger knife handle and opened up the slots I cut. I still have some of the old slot cutting knifes and guides we used in the days of bow ties and high button shoes.