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HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

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HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Old 03-06-2010, 08:28 PM
  #1  
airbusdrvr
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Default HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

I have a St. Croix(kitted by Cressline) 1/5 scale Long EZ kit and have two questions for anyone with experience/knowledge about this discontinued kit.

First of all, IS THERE A SOURCE FOR A REPLACEMENT ENGINE COWL? The upper half of the two-part cowl supplied with the kit is defective. In the picture below is shown an area of the cowl that is paper thin. Both the upper and lower cowls are very solid and about 3/32" thick except in this one area. Somehow, a piece of defective plastic/acrylic material was put into the mold. Out came a perfectly formed but very thin area as shown below.

The second question has to do with finishing the model. The wings halves are assembled in three sections using foam cores covered with 1/16 balsa sheeting. The three sections that comprise each wing half are joined using 2oz fiberglass. The only "wing spars" are actually 6 1/2" long plywood joiners that attach the two wing halves in three places at the center section. The fuselage construction is standard balsa and plywood. After this, the complete model(wings, fuse, solid balsa control surfaces, etc.) is covered with 3/4 oz fiberglass cloth. Then follows all the filling, priming, painting and sanding associated with fiberglass construction. As stated in the manual, this method of covering will add to the structural strength.
THE QUESTION: If 2 oz fiberglass is used at the wing joints as specified, could plastic film, like Ultracote, be used safely in place of the 3/4 oz fiberglass method of covering?
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Old 03-06-2010, 09:36 PM
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soarrich
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Put it in hot water and let it relax back to the proper shape, then lay some light fiberglass on the inside. You can use epoxy to bond it to the inside. Some may say to bond the glass with MEK to the plastic, but if it's as thin as you say I wouldn't try that.

Mylar film is very strong in tension, so I would say Mylar covering would be fine. I made a Zip launch glider that I just butt glued the wings together then used the Mylar overlapped at the poly breaks, it goes from 0 to 80mph in about 10 feet, so it takes a lot of gees.
Old 03-07-2010, 09:01 AM
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SPLIT S
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Glass that light makes a nice base for paint and certainly helps with hangar rash but the structural side is minimal. Covering it will be fine. Maybe after you have the 3 cores joined you could cut a slot and imbed a spar for peace of mind.

Nice find on the kit. Does anyone produce an EZ currently?

Dan
Old 03-07-2010, 09:11 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT


ORIGINAL: SPLIT S

Maybe after you have the 3 cores joined you could cut a slot and imbed a spar for peace of mind.
That's not necessary. My 16# scratch-built has no spars the only thing holding the tapered panels on is three layers of 2oz. glass 2,3,and 4" wide. It's in it's fifth year so far no problems.
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:15 AM
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SPLIT S
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Ok then, just a thought.
Old 03-07-2010, 09:48 AM
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airbusdrvr
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT


ORIGINAL: SPLIT S

Glass that light makes a nice base for paint and certainly helps with hangar rash but the structural side is minimal. Covering it will be fine. Maybe after you have the 3 cores joined you could cut a slot and imbed a spar for peace of mind.

Nice find on the kit. Does anyone produce an EZ currently?

Dan
I've been looking off and on for several years. The only choices were BARFs, sorry, ARFs and I think I have seen a few smaller electric versions more in the toy sizes. I have not seen a 60"-65" span model kit currently available. One thing with this particular kit is the motor/tank placement. The tank needs to be mounted 2" to 3" below the level of the carb. It is in the plans that way. I just think that will present running issues unless a pumped motor was used. I have mostly gotten out of electric planes over the last four years. In fact, I only have two LiPos left for a sailplane I occassionally fly. But I believe if I build this plane I will go electric. Pusher prop cowled engine cooling and tank placement problems would be eliminated. It is still early, though, in the planning stages of a build.
Old 10-21-2010, 04:54 PM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Airbusdrvr,

I built this exact plane so I can help:
1. Do not use a nitro engine. The plane comes out EXTREMELY tail heavy even before you put fuel in the tank. Go electric. An e-Flite .46 out runner motor will be more than enough power. http://h1070467.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...prod=EFLM4046A
use the castle creations Ice HV 60amp brushless ESC http://h1070467.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...rod=CSEICE60HV and an APC 13x8 electric prop. http://h1070467.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...prod=APC13080E
2. Use a thunder power 4s 5000mAh pack: 5000mAh 4-Cell/4S 14.8V G4 Pro Power 45C LiPo [THP50004SP45]. Place the pack as far forward as possible
3. As far as the wings go do not use the included pushrods for the rudders. THEY SUCK!!! Put a JR brand or Hitec brand thin wing servo in each wing half to control each of the rudders. http://h1070467.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...p?prod=JRPS378
http://h1070467.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...prod=HRC35125S
4. Also use the thin wing servo in each wing half to control each aileron.
5. If you put in a retract in the nose be advised that when the nose gear is retracted it shifts the weight back and makes the plane tail heavy.
6. For the wheel pants use an after market wheel pant manufacture for a .46 size plane. Try http://www.fiberglassspecialtiesinc.com . Having to build the pants included with the kit is a PITA.
7. Sheet the wing & vertical stabilizers with the included balsa. You can cover the entire plane with Monokote or Ultracote. I never glassed mine because had it been glassed it would have been too heavy.

Check out this Sig Tristar build as the Long EZ and Tristar are built in an almost identical fashion: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_52...tm.htm#5297052

8. As far as the cowl is concerned I would just cut out the dented part to help increase cooling.

Feel free to write me if you have any further questions.
Saul
Old 10-21-2010, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

i also have this kit, i picked it up about a year ago. i have a couple other projects i am working on before i can get to it. i have also been thinking electric would be a good way to go with this bird


please do a build thread on this!!! i sure will watch! and it may make me push a current project aside and build with you!

todd

p.s. wowplanes.com has a kewl liquid sheeting that can be used instead of 3/4 glass cloth and resin. this is also what i am planning on using on mine
Old 12-11-2010, 07:39 PM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

I actually have the same kit and recently pulled it back out from an ~8 year hiatus hiding partially assembled in the box. It is interesting to read folks commenting about the tail heavy condition. I extended the nose on mine by 2" to match a full-scale Oshkosh Grand Champion winner's plane, so I have some extra room for nose ballast. The only other change I made was to laminate a piece of 0.007" carbon onto the canard for ease of mind. I'm currently sanding and priming the wings for the n-th time. I really should weigh the plane...

Going through construction, I'm not seeing any issues with how the wing controls are set up. I made nice smooth runs for the ailerons and think this is the best golden-rod install I've ever done. The rudder pull-cables seem workable, though I can see need for some tension adjustments in the wing root area. I definitely agree with another poster that the wheel pants are a bit of a pain and not as pretty as they could be. I was thinking to whittle something prettier up and mold it to make a lighter and more scale part. Another molding project on my list is the upper cowl. I accidentally sat on the part ages ago and put a heavy crease in it.

For the thin cowl problem, I agree with the other poster that a layer of fiberglass on the inside should solve your problem. I've done the same inside busted plastic cowls and they come out much sturdier than the original.

Can someone explain the issue of the fuel tank being below the carb? I have an OS 46 AX slated to power my EZ, un-pumped. I suppose if a pump is needed, the back of the firewall would make a convenient mounting location, but I'd like to understand the issue more. Any weight estimates of other built models would be awesome too. I really should weigh mine...

I attached a recent pic, but before starting to glass the wing. I have a lot more if there is interest.

Dan
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Old 12-12-2010, 07:17 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Memories from the past. My son bought one of those while he was building his full size. I can't remember what happened to it, but I know he built the full size, and before he had the engine mounted, decided to buy a house and sold the engine for a down payment; got tired of paying the storage fees at the airport, and sold the airframe to an EZ club somewhere. My wife breathed a sigh of relief. She has the utmost trust, and faith, in the competence of my son and myself, BUT.

Les

p.s., I thought RCU had fixed the picture problem. Hello! is anyone awake in there?????

Les
Old 12-14-2010, 05:30 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Danstrider..

Please throw some more "bones" I too have the kit waiting in the ranks. Any build "tricks" and others that have flown it would be appreciated. Definately add this colum on my favorite list. Thanks
Old 12-14-2010, 07:16 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

The best advice I have for anyone building the kit is go electric. The weight shift that occurs in flight while the fuel is drained makes the plane nose heavy. Keep in mind that the plane is balanced out with a full tank of fuel and you'll need to add a lot of nose weight if you don't use electric. With electric, you won't have that problem. An e-Flite .46 outrunner will work. Also install that servos in the wing for the ailerons and rudders with direct drive and not with the cables included with the kit. Keep in mind that if you add a retractable nose gear that when you retract it, it will shift the weigh back quite a bit. If you can find a set of fiberglass wheel pants use then instead of building them as instructed in the kit.

This build for the Sig Tristar will help. I have built one and still have it & it builds very similar to the St. Croix version.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_52..._1/key_/tm.htm

Saul
Old 12-15-2010, 10:22 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

I built this kit back in 85. Unfortunately, it didn’t have a long life. I bought another one right after the demise of the first one. I was actually thinking about making it this winters project.
I built the kit to plan and it came out very nice, quite an eye catcher at the field. I did fiberglass the wings but not the fuse or winglets, OS 40 for power un pumped and a 6oz fuel tank, no retractable nose gear. I don’t remember the model being tail heavy and didn’t have any fuel flow problems due to tank placement. I do remember putting the landing gear on backwards and not correcting it until the first flight (when you stop laughing read on). It wouldn’t rotate it just kinda bobbed a little then flipped over and cracked the canopy and ripped off one of the winglets. Made the repairs, turned the LG around and went for another go. It lifted off with no problems and flew great…… until time for landing. Reduced throttle to ¼ and down she came. When I tried to raise the nose to flair the landing, it just smacked the ground on it’s nose and off the nose went and the winglet decided to go with it, this happened twice. After re-reading the construction manual, I noticed on page 18 just below the canard diagrams there was a ***NOTICE. If flying 4000ft above sea level you may have to add an additional 1/8 inch to the elevator TE. I was flying in England and don’t think I was even close to being 4000 ft above sea level. Anyway I added the 1/8 inch to the elevator and was able to land the model with no problem. By the time I got everything right it was so beat up, I gave it away when I left England.
When I build the next one, I just may take the suggestion of slevin1 and go electric, nice option. If using glow power, extending the nose an additional 2 inches as danstrider suggested is an interesting thought. I would also increase the size of the fuel tank. I will not use the push rods for the rudders, I agree they suck. Servos in the wing to control the rudders and servos in the wing to control the ailerons is the way to go. I will increase the cord on the elevator and put the landing gear on correctly this time (laughing again huh).
Sure would be nice if you did a build tread on the Long EZ. It may push me toward building it verses my King Kobra. I would like to build two models this winter. The EZ or King Kobra and a quick build everyday flyer. Don’t think I have the time and $$$$$$ to make the EZ and King Kobra.
Please keep us EZ fans updated on your build.
Old 12-18-2010, 06:31 PM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Here are a few more images for you guys. I included a few that show the winglet attachment in progress, the engine mounting method (for you guys thinking of electric conversions), a blurry shot to show the balsa nose extension, and a shot of the extra carbon reinforcement on the canard.

I'm building this wayyy too slowly for a build-log, but I'll think about adding a new photo occasionally for anyone subscribed, how about that?

I definitely hear the comments about the gear and fuel burn moving the CG. For those who have flown the plane, is there a consensus on forward and aft CG limits? It should be easy enough to measure the CG with the tank full and the gear retracted. Set to the aft-most CG limit, then emptying the fuel tank and putting the nose gear down will establish the most nose-heavy I can get it. If that is ahead of the forward CG limit you guys are recommending, then we actually have a problem...

I actually built in some extra room for a 6oz tank, so it's cool to hear others had the same idea! If there is a CG range issue though, that may be counter-productive. A secondary tank further forward and using the normal tank as a header might work.

Dan
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Old 12-19-2010, 07:43 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Hey Dan your model is looking good. You’re only going with a 6oz tank? I would make the mods and go with nothing smaller then 8oz for a 40 size engine. Did you glass the wings? I glassed the wings on mine but not the fuse. Thinking back and hearing form other posters about the CG changing with fuel drain that might have been my problem on landings. The model probably came in a little nose heavy. I didn’t have the room to come in with much throttle so at idle I don’t think I had enough air speed to keep the nose up. I would like to know if that 2†extension with the nose wheel down will put the CG to far forward. Keep the pictures coming as you progress.
Old 12-19-2010, 09:08 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Apologies, I checked my tank and the "stock" size by the plans is 6oz, but I bought an 8oz tank. It's a tight fit though that wouldn't leave much room for anti-vibration foam, so I was actually debating dropping back down to the smaller size. Historically, the Long EZ is an efficient design, so I was thinking it actually would be cool with the smaller tank, assuming I wasn't flying at full throttle the whole time of course :-)

I did glass the wing. It doesn't seem there would be much structure otherwise! I upped the layup schedule a bit for a little more comfort factor without adding terribly much weight. I can tell there is some twist left in the wing, so it'll be interesting to see if she flutters. Scary! I haven't glassed the fuselage yet, but that is definitely in the plans. That way I can paint the whole plane so it's the same color and surface finish texture. I was thinking of copying the cowl in glass for the same reason, so it paints the same way the wing & fuselage do.

I should note that the 2" extension only is more nose weight. It doesn't move the nose gear any further forward. In order to get a more scale nose gear angle and location, I would have to move the retract location. Hm.

Dan
Old 12-19-2010, 09:58 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

I would like to encourage you to go electric. You will find this plane easier to fly.

Saul
Old 12-19-2010, 10:02 AM
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slevin1
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

All,

I just picked a MINT CONDITION NIB St. Croix Models Rutan Quickie from a local hobby shop!!! It is even still in the cardboard it was delivered in when it was sent to the shop!!! Got it for $60! It normally sold for $175.

Saul
Old 12-20-2010, 05:10 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Slevin1 ... Excellent on your purchase. I was in the same boat couple of years ago, found one on local Craigslist, it to all original box etc. for $50.00 ! I am glad other flyers/builders have posted their creations here, just giving me "tangible" ideas and all for my build.
Old 12-22-2010, 05:39 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Going electric is an option I may consider when I build my Long EZ. I've only had one electric plane and that was back in the day when Kyosho had an electric Zero Electrics have come a long way since then.
Old 12-22-2010, 12:04 PM
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slevin1
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

I'm definenitely going electric with the Quickie. I really am siked that I found that kit. I remember when it came out. I was 12 when I built the St. Croix Long EZ and I wanted the Quickie too but I did not have the money.

Saul
Old 12-23-2010, 09:25 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

slevin1

How much flight time did you get with the electric setup? How long before a drop in power?

Thanks,
Old 12-23-2010, 12:16 PM
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slevin1
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Mine was nitro. Electric in 1982 was not up to the level it is today. With an e-flite .46 you'll get about 10 minutes.

Saul
Old 12-19-2011, 03:04 PM
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

I know this is an old posting, but I just found it!
I won Crestline LONG EZ kit on Ebay today!
I am weighing my options about Glow or Electric. I thin the last 2 I built were fine with glow, but then electric wasn't all that advanced in the 80's.

I'm also pondering a build thread. Anyone else out here have one to build?
Old 12-19-2011, 08:23 PM
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slevin1
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Default RE: HELP WITH ST. CROIX/CRESSLINE LONG EZ KIT

Go electric otherwise you'll have to deal with the in-flight weight shift that occurs as the fuel tank has less and less fuel in it. Plus electric gives you the ability to better balance the plane. Mine had a nitro engine in it and boy was it tail heavy!

Saul

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