DeferredDefect

Why don't ARTF manufacturers sell kits of their models?
If you can sell a ARTF Kaos for $110.00, wouldn't it make sense to be able to sell just the balsa and assessories for half that or less?

If kits didn't increase in price by 100000%, more people would build them!
Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Graeme

eagledancer

what they really want is to sell you a cheaply made plane that wont last long, then sell you another and another. if you build it yourself it will last way too long

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

eagledancer That post just got you 5 points!

foodstick

I wish you could get the arfs in kit form as well..

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I used to say the same thing about ARF, and wondered why they can't just sell the parts to make one to us kit builders. Then I spent some time talking to Don Anderson, Arthur Pesche, and several others in the industry and they explained why that wouldn't work. ARF's that are built in a factory differ drastically from the kits that we build. Mainly because in the factory that planes are built on a jig and the parts are designed such so that the person assembling the plane needs little to no skill at all. They just put the parts on the jig and apply glue. Unless we had the assembly jigs there is no way we could build with the same parts. And even if we did have the jig it wouldn't resemble any kit build that we're used to.

Although it's a nice thought to think about getting these planes into our hot little kit building hands!!!!!  . We can keep on wishing

Ken

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Yep, I have to ditto what Ken said.

And to add to it, you have to consider the amount of work involved in drawing and printing the plans, having someone build one and document the build with pictures and text for the manual, graphic artists to do the manual's layout, printing the manual, designing the construction of, and the artwork for a new, smaller box, etc. etc. etc.

And for the record, I do reviews for RCU where I document the assembly with pictures and text and in my full-time job I work with people who do catalog layout and I can tell you first-hand that these tasks require more work than you can imagine!

foodstick

It would still be interesting to try. Looking at most of those arfs the parts key together so well I think it would go quick, It reminds me of the way the four star 40 fuse will interlock. Then you just check for straightness and glue...

In the end buying one and stripping it, reinforcing the weak spots is probably much quicker with the same end results...

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I'm sure that a good builder could do it, but think of the "average" builder. Keep in mind that things like the alignment of the ribs depends on the jig - a novice builder will be left to his own devices as to how to align them properly as they have no tabs like you might find in a kit.

Again, not a huge task for an experienced builder, but a challange for anything less.

Then of course, they would have to go through all of the additional work and expense of personel involved with plans and a manual! [:@]

NCIS

It would at least be nice if they had plans and parts sheets for their ARFS so if you crash it you could fix it. Without templates sometimes a minor crash costs you a whole new ARF instead of cutting the parts and putting them together. Plus if we build why can't we make jigs to build them also. We build jigs now to make our builds easier and straighter so whats the big problem making the jigs? I just think they want disposable planes and don't want us to compete with their products!

??????

Barry

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

As I said, *I* can build a jig, *YOU* can build a jig, but can the average Joe build one?

If you built houses for a living, what would you tell someone who bought one of your houses when he asked for a set of plans that showed where all the 2x4's go?

I know where *I* would tell him to go!

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

I think maybe some are attributing a bit too much....well..."evil intent" to model manufacturers.

outdoorhunting

Anybody out there put together a Chinese ARF using "their instructions? Think what a job it would be to put together a kit using their instructions, now that's scary!!!

Insanemoondoggie

ARF's come with instructions ? Instructions for what ? jk

Live Wire

Some of the old Royal kits were just a little on the slanted side. and I have put together plane that are not in English. You heard of scratch building with a long kit

foodstick

You know, if kit manufactures would have had the laser cutters knocking out interlocking parts, that were designed on a pc ....

The arf would have had a little tougher time taking over.

I still laugh when I think of the kits that had you glue a giant block in then work it down to a compound curve...

davidgeorge212

I am taking an arf now and drawing it up in autocad. When I peeled all the covering off of this arf, I dont think anyone could build it as a kit by the way it was constructed. It had to have been built using multiple jigs. I would say its about 96% lasercut peices (meaning the rest is just dimensional balsa sticks cut to the right size and glued in for support). Anyway, I am drawing it up with the same outlines in autocad, but I am semi tweaking the internal design of it so that I can later on build one the old fashion way using a building board and simpler building techniques.

David

ARUP

Buy your favorite arf then take it apart to copy the pieces. Document your process in a 'reverse order' sort of way in order to do a 'build'. Remember: where there is a will there is a way!

DeferredDefect

Hmmm...
I know that Kits are sold over a longer period of time, ARF's just until the demand is met - wouldn't a manual or plan be a one time investment? You only have to design it once, as with the manual. If manuals are too long to produce, why not include basic instructions on the plan, like a Guillows kit?

I just really hate to see all of the kit manufacturers die, and hundreds of the exact same model. (although I must confess I picked up an Escape this week..)

zx32tt

My Feedback: (9)

IMHO, kits are no longer cost effective for most of the kit suppliers. There seems to be very little interest by r/c flyers in building them. You only have to look at the flightline to see whats going on. How many kit built planes are there? My guess is it's 85-95% ARF.
zx32tt[&o]

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

I don't get this at all. Over the winter, I turned:



into



with not one set of plans, not one jig, not one "parts sheet".

You guys are all going on about taking things apart, drawing things up, and so on. That seems overly complicated to me. Why can''t we just put pieces back together, and cut/make/shape/create/design/rebuild whatever's missing? Or better yet, we could not wreck them to begin with! (I know...asking WAY too much *hehe*)

Again...it seems to me that everyone's trying to find some sort of 'evil intent" or 'sekrit planz0rz!!11!oneone" or whatever. I still don't think this is very complicated...

ARF manufacturers manufacture ARFs because they make money off of them. They don't kit the planes, or offer "plans" for them, because they wouldn't make money off of them.

summerwind

this is the most accurate description of whats happened to our great hobby, and ARF buyers will never know the feel of having put a model in the air that was their doing.

cls8995

I think its supply and demand mainly... Alot of people dont want to spend 6 months year putting kits together they want to slap some glue on them and go reck it ... thats the demand part of it.. More people will buy arfs than kits no matter if they make both for retail sale.


Another thing is lower cost they prob can make 2 arfs for the price they make one kit for .... Also when u break an arf u have to buy another arf at 200.00 instead of ordering 10.00 in wood and 3.00 in glue to fix .....


They make a killing on arfs compared too kits ... more profit to them ...

just my 2 cents

Rudolph Hart

Well i need to point out that there are plenty of builders before "scratch builders" like the guys that made your glue or balsa.Arf's are easy,that's the "problem" we all buy packaged poo nowadays whether it's food or funerals..

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Once upon a time, ordinary Americans felt that they had a prosperous future ahead of them. Ingenuity was valued and rewarded in the workplace. Young'uns were encouraged to use their head and their hands. Alas, no more. There are no jobs that pay excellent wages for folks that use their hands as well as their heads. No one will buy their products, saying that they are shoddily built and too expensive. Usually without checking to see if this is true before buying something from China or something with a Japanese name. Then they wonder why their kids can't leave home...

Enough politics.

Do yourself a favor. Find a model that you love and then produce three or four kits of that model by hand (yes, power tools allowed, but no CNC). If you are anything like me, you will discover that cutting kits (or templates) is loads of fun and you can also have the joy of sharing them with friends. I did. One of my best R/C experiences.


Ed Cregger

MikeL

My Feedback: (3)

You're getting too old and out of touch if you believe any of that, Ed. Stop listening to what certain folks would have you believe, and start getting involved. You'll find many, many young people that are exactly what you say they're not. And many who are. Same as was the case with your generation, and each and every generation before that.