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  1. #1851
    KaP2011's Avatar
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Thanks for that answer Zor.

    I understand the answer so I must not understand the question. What hp range do I need to be in to get a 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio? I realize the prop will have a great deal to do with the ratio but I'm not sure how to get to the answer I'm looking for. I am only high school educated and that was 35 years ago. I'm not sure we went over that in class, if we did I must have been asleep that day.
    I know that if I took an engine and rigged it up on a test stand with a scale and got a result of 8lb of thrust, I would have a 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio on an 8lb airplane. I'm just not sure how to do the math to come to the answer.
    KaP2011
    AMA #408493
    SPA #521
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #110
    Spitfire Brotherhood # 193

  2. #1852
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***


    ORIGINAL: KaP2011

    Thanks for that answer Zor.

    I understand the answer so I must not understand the question. What hp range do I need to be in to get a 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio? I realize the prop will have a great deal to do with the ratio but I'm not sure how to get to the answer I'm looking for. I am only high school educated and that was 35 years ago. I'm not sure we went over that in class, if we did I must have been asleep that day.
    I know that if I took an engine and rigged it up on a test stand with a scale and got a result of 8lb of thrust, I would have a 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio on an 8lb airplane. I'm just not sure how to do the math to come to the answer.
    KaP2011,

    I do not know how much I can help you with your inquisition.

    I understand that you would wish to calculate the horse power needed to produce a specific thrust from the engine-prop combination.

    As you indicated the no-math method is to make a static test with a good scale rigged up to measure the thrust. I think that most fliers just go by the general reported usage of others.

    To try to figure this by mathematics is not simple nor easy.
    Horse power is the ability to do work.
    One horse power can lift 550 lbs a distance of one foot in one second.

    Some of the difficulties to use calculations for us modelers are ___
    1- We do not know precisely and sometime not at all what is the horse power rating of an engine.
    2- The engine is turning a propeller to convert the HP into thrust.
    3- The thrust will depend on the propeller size (diameter), on the prop pitch (which varies along the radius of the blades), on the prop airfoil (which can also vary along the blades).
    4- We do not have manufacurers figures telling us the statcic thrust of their prop versus rpm; we have to do our own tests as mentioned above.
    5- We do not knowany specificprop efficiency.

    It all seem to boil down to using a recommended engine range (size) for a model and play around with different props.

    I think the best you can do is browse around until you develop a feeling for types of models, their weight, the engine installed, the prop used and is it a 3D capable model and to what extend it is (how much thrust it has versus weight).

    Watch for other postings coming up by ohers. You may get this general infomation of model, weight, engine and prop and vertical flight performance.

    Good luck,

    Zor

  3. #1853
    KaP2011's Avatar
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Thanks Zor. What you are saying is pretty much what I thought.
    I'm not out to fly 3D with my US60 but I do want it to fly vertical until I pull back on the throttle. I don't think a .61 or the .75 is capable of that on an 8lb airplane no matter what prop I put on it. I also don't think the FS .95 would do it either. The .95AX may be capable but I can't go larger than a 14" prop.

    I have been told by some of the guys in my club that I'm barking up the wrong tree without a paddle 
    KaP2011
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    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #110
    Spitfire Brotherhood # 193

  4. #1854

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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Kap,

    Trymeasuring the thrust with the plane tetheredto afish scale and engine / prop full throttle, you'd want to see the fish scale reading more than 8lbs (at a quess I'd say about 30% more) to get 1 to 1 thrust.

    The95AX is going to give you all the vertical you need for sure. I would see the down sides as prop diameter and torque roll. When you snap the throttle open, I'm picking the plane will want to roll around the engine a bit. My Tower Kaos at just over 5lbs with a 55AX does this, especially on a landing overshoot from a slow air speed / low throttle to instant full throttle, upsets the plane a bit if you bang the throttle in to fast. It's not an issue at higher air speed.

    I've also bend my own 3/16 wire gear and lengthened it 1 inch even for the 13 inch props I usewiththe trike gear configuation. The 3/16 diameter is way stronger than the kit 5/32 wire gear.

    Cheers,

    Gordie.
    Ultrasport brotherhood #29

  5. #1855

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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Kap,
    My US60 with OS-.75AX,APC 14X8, Spring air main gear retracts with 3/16" struts, weighs 8.125#. I can fly straight up until I pull the throttle back! A larger engine may give more power but the prop diameter will be limited by the gear length. A larger engine may also add nose weight that may require tail weight to balance, thus increasing over all weight and reducing thrust to weight ratio. Try the OS .75AX/APC14x8 combo you will like it.
    Thom
    Thom
    AMA #73928, Simla #4, Ultra Sport Brotherhood #138

  6. #1856
    KaP2011's Avatar
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Ok, I'm convinced, I'll order the .75AX. I have been worried that the .95AX would make it too nose heavy and prop clearence for a larger engine will be an issue. My landing gear is 5" from the bottom of the wing to the axle which should give me about an inch of clearence with a 14" prop. 
    KaP2011
    AMA #408493
    SPA #521
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #110
    Spitfire Brotherhood # 193

  7. #1857
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    My US60 has a Tower Hobbies 0.75 engine with 12x6 APC. Last time I checked, it was pulling over 9 lbs of static force (WOT) checked with a fish scale at the tail wheel . With a dry weight of 7.0 lbs even, she goes unlimited vertical at 3/4" throttle. An US60 at 8 lbs would not be a problem either.
    Spitfire Brotherhood #96, Ultra Sport Brotherhood #20

  8. #1858
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***


    ORIGINAL: Gordie M

    Kap,

    Trymeasuring the thrust with the plane tetheredto afish scale and engine / prop full throttle, you'd want to see the fish scale reading more than 8lbs (at a quess I'd say about 30% more) to get 1 to 1 thrust.

    The95AX is going to give you all the vertical you need for sure. I would see the down sides as prop diameter and torque roll. When you snap the throttle open, I'm picking the plane will want to roll around the engine a bit. My Tower Kaos at just over 5lbs with a 55AX does this, especially on a landing overshoot from a slow air speed / low throttle to instant full throttle, upsets the plane a bit if you bang the throttle in to fast. It's not an issue at higher air speed.

    I've also bend my own 3/16 wire gear and lengthened it 1 inch even for the 13 inch props I usewiththe trike gear configuation. The 3/16 diameter is way stronger than the kit 5/32 wire gear.

    Cheers,

    Gordie.
    Hello Gordie,

    The following is written more for the general reader.
    You probably know this already.

    The speed of the human being nervous system communication is such that reaction time is typically one half (1/2) second. The fastest ever measured was one quarter (1/4) second.

    For that reason it is best to apply the throttle smoothly in about a two second motion so that if unexpecedmodel motion takes place then the pilot is able to react fast enough.
    Instannt full throttle is not recommended.

    Comparing 3/16" dia wire to 5/32" dia wire, the 3/16 is 1.440 times stronger if made of the same material and heat treated with the same procedure.

    Have a great day all.

    Zor

  9. #1859
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Interesting reading about reaction time. http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/...time/stats.php
    John
    Have desk ... Will Fly.... Saito Member #467
    Ultimate Brotherhood #11, Ultra Sport Brotherhood #90

  10. #1860
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***


    ORIGINAL: JNorton

    Interesting reading about reaction time. http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/...time/stats.php
    John
    Hi JNorton . . . long time no see you.

    There is a reaction time testor on that site.
    I had seen this site a long time ago or a similar site which is from where I remembered some values.

    Just tried this site from your posting and I averaged between 250 and 300 ms.
    Perhaps typical for an old fellow .

    Zor

  11. #1861
    KaP2011's Avatar
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Haha, fun game. best I could do was 231ms after 10 clicks.
    KaP2011
    AMA #408493
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    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #110
    Spitfire Brotherhood # 193

  12. #1862

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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    LOL, 205.3 avg of five clicks...must be all the video games of my youth.

    I had started this kit as my first kit around Feb, but life got in the way with an illness leading to death in the family, so on...

    got out to the field for the fourth time this year last sunday, and a buddy had a US40.  He let me fly it, and let's just say, I have now been "re-inspired" to dust off the sanding block and 11 blade and "get back to work."
    Urge Congress to keep common sense in the skies

  13. #1863
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***


    ORIGINAL: corch

    LOL, 205.3 avg of five clicks...must be all the video games of my youth.

    I had started this kit as my first kit around Feb, but life got in the way with an illness leading to death in the family, so on...

    got out to the field for the fourth time this year last sunday, and a buddy had a US40. He let me fly it, and let's just say, I have now been "re-inspired" to dust off the sanding block and 11 blade and "get back to work."
    corch,

    Nice to see you in the spirit of being a real modeler again.

    Zor


  14. #1864

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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    A couple of months ago the battery came loose in my US1000 and the plane was destroyed. I was so depressed, I didn't fly for a month and almost quit the hobby.

    However a couple of weeks ago I was luckey enough to buy another 1000 that I found on this site.I'm gonna stick with the OS 1.08 from the first plane.

    I have flown many plane but the Ultra Sport is my favorite. Flys like a pattern ship and lands like a trainer. I'm not a builder but I love thewse planes andwould be honored to join the brotherhood.

    The blue one was my first one :-(. The white one is the new one.
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  15. #1865
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Both your old one and your new one are mighty nice looking planes fly2fly.
    If you love your plane, set it free, if it doesn\'\'t return, you should have checked the battery.

  16. #1866

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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Thanks, I'm kind of partial to thetwo tone scheme of the blue and white. It reminds me of the classic pattern ships of the 70's. It was beautiful. I couldn't find out who built it but Iwould like to shake his hand. I stillhave the shattered pieces in a big box. Imight try to seeif someone can rebuild it for me. I just can't do it.

    The white one with the blue, yellow and red trim was built by Dennis Sarette (hope he doesn't mind) of NH. This guy is a master builder and coverer. To say it looks factory would be an insult.I hate to admit it but this is actually a better plane than the old one. It has wing filets, pull/pull rudder, oversized landing gear, and some other goodies that the other one didnt have. If you buy a plane from this guy, it's going to be top quality. I'll try to post some more photos in my gallery.

    Yours are nice also. I would love to have a 40 or 60 in my hangar that Icould fly when I dont feel like lugging out the big guy.

  17. #1867

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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Okay....

    You all are forcing me to clear my bench and get back to building my US1000...

    Nicely done...

    Cheers,
    Tim Schuy
    tschuy@comcast.net
    AMA #77316
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #6
    __________________

  18. #1868

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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Your in Yak13.

    1. Ken Isaac - RCKen
    2. Mike Buzzeo - Minnflyer
    3. Alex7403
    4. Dash008
    5. AH1G
    6. tschuy
    7. MILDBILL-RCU
    8. Box car
    9. Top Gunn
    10. SeaJay
    11. Crash Campbell
    12. SKYHI1
    13. ChuckW
    14. RhyanO
    15. landeck
    16. Ilikebipes
    17. airbusdrvr
    18. Insanemoondoggie
    19. daisy shoot
    20. prgonzalez
    21. BelAirBob
    22. hrrcflyer
    23. rastus1
    24. tony0707
    25. *JCB*
    26. Redback
    27. bigugly
    28. MetallicaJunkie
    29. Gordie M
    30. Jim_Purcha
    31. rcsws
    32. jeffsend
    33. fireman7875
    34. 72
    35. ser00
    36. Oly
    37. cpeisher
    38. donzhere
    39. SKYHI1
    40. kbarko
    41. pgilbert
    42. rambler53
    43. rcjets_63
    44. dschroeder
    45. Quikturn
    46. blueapplepaste
    47. green river rc
    48. SushiSeeker
    49. VCScott
    50. FallDownGoBoom
    51. ccp10
    52. Deadeye
    53. Eganwp
    54. carlosponti
    55. Navy18
    56. MineBurg
    57. Cdallas2
    58. loopyrc
    59. Sled
    60. Bernard
    61. jrbmoto
    62. Bubba153
    63. Alfredbmor
    64. FentonFlyer
    65. Sneakywrist
    66. BLW
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    68. gabarber
    69. Amishwarlord
    70. JPMacG
    71. kamakazie frank
    72. RussianFlyer
    73. RoyR
    74. Red Jeepster
    75. Fallingleaf
    76. Yukonflier
    77. rcjim000
    78. goonybird1
    79. rglgatortail
    80. Latebreaker
    81. Tango juliet
    82. Saito18
    83. hafidy
    84. RR24
    85. mechdrew
    86. siko_flyer
    87. Kit
    88. n7188u
    89. gerryndennis
    90. JNorton
    91. misterv
    92. Mustangman40
    93. OntAeronut
    94. proptop
    95. scottrc
    96. scirocco14
    97. pt19 flyer
    98. Doug47
    99. b.bixel
    100! bikerbc
    101. weezle
    102. Mtthwacrss
    103. matadco
    104. rickbrad
    105. GaryHarris
    106. Roary m
    107. P47Tbolt
    108. jp boud
    109. arrdee
    110. KaP2011
    111. HFrank
    112. custombuiltrc
    113. jquid
    114. dasquirrelisme
    115. KC10Chief
    116. _Tommy D
    117. Do328jet
    118. sirzepp
    119. mrshea
    120. AJsToyz
    121. svenska3
    122. I FLY
    123. turnscrew
    124. SteveW
    125. Super08
    126. ma_mulcahy
    127. digital_trucker
    128. ARTP47
    129. us020140
    130. Profiled
    131. kgibson4
    132. r/coldie
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    135. TWIN FLYER
    136. Fliegerboy
    137. Doug Robinson
    138. thom25
    139. Yak13
    Robert L. AMA #595312, Club Saito #724
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #79, P-51 Mustang Brotherhood #22

  19. #1869

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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    OK guys, I wana be in too! I guess I would be #140. I own a US40 that I built and flew a lot back in the early 90's. What a great flying plane. But back then I also purchased a 1000, ST2500, and acquired OS108. I've just decided to finally build the 1000. But from what I've read, the engines I have may be a little small. So I've been looking at an OS160FX. It's the same weight as the ST2500 and puts out 1hp more. So please tell me what you guys think. I wanna do the right engine and retracts too. Happy I found your group. Rich

  20. #1870
    72's Avatar
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    Rich, I'm planning a 1000 with the OS160 too. Don't know about the retracts or not yet but I think the OS will be a great engine for this.
    Club Saito #614/Ultimate Brotherhood #57
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #34

  21. #1871

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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    That's great! Maybe we can keep in touch to compare notes. I'm planning to take my time and start my build either before or after xmas. Don't know about retracts either other than they'd be nice, but may also cost more that I wanna spend. Rich

  22. #1872
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    I'm thinking maybe a fuselage mounted carbon fiber gear taildragger.
    Club Saito #614/Ultimate Brotherhood #57
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #34

  23. #1873

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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    yeah mine will be a tail dragger also.

  24. #1874

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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    72, is the two or four cycle OS 160?

    I was thinking of going to a 160 twin, but not in the mood the cut and redo the front so maybe a Saito 150 or YS 140 instead.

    I'd still like gas (DLE 30?) but havent found any real feedback from anyone who has done that plus not sure if I have enough prop clearence with the exisiting gear.

    Bill S.
    Carl Goldberg Ultimate Brotherhood #56
    Goldberg Tiger Club #17
    SIG Brotherhood #69

    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #135
    http://radiocontrolhobbies.freeservers.com

  25. #1875
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    RE: *** Ultra Sport Brotherhood ***

    I have an OS 160fx 2 stroke. I also have a dle 20 and 30 but I think the gas engines will require too much of the nose to be cut away to fit around the gassers and it just wouldn't be an Ultrasport anymore. Love my gassers but the Ultra needs to keep its lines I think!!
    The dle 30 swings a 19/8 prop so clearance would be bad also. I am running this engine in an EF Yak 74" and it has long gear so no problem there.

    Club Saito #614/Ultimate Brotherhood #57
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #34


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