Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
05-05-2010, 10:15 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
Hi, I looked here, but did not find the answer. Do the wing struts and/or the tail braces for the Midwest 80 inch Citabria HAVE to be installed to keep things from breaking? I have the built kit, but not the struts and braces, and want to fly it soon.
Thanks.
Sincerely,
SPACEWORM
Thanks.
Sincerely,
SPACEWORM
05-05-2010, 10:26 AM
#2
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RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
I have the super decatlon 86 inch wing span and I put the sturts and tail braces on its a big wing i did it for peace of mind michael
05-05-2010, 10:45 AM
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RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
I would definetely put the struts on the wing, and if you do that why not put the braces on the tail.
Now it looks like a Citabria, flys like a Citabria, must be a Citabria.
Now it looks like a Citabria, flys like a Citabria, must be a Citabria.
05-05-2010, 11:32 AM
#4
Thread Starter
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
Do the wing struts and/or the tail braces for the Midwest 80 inch Citabria HAVE to be installed to keep things from breaking?
Thank you.
Thank you.
05-05-2010, 05:31 PM
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RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
I think your question was answered. But do you have to put the wing struts on? No you don't have to. You don't have to wear a safety belt or a motorcycle helmet either.
Not trying to be smart here, but that is a big wing and considering AUW (ie wing loading), I would definetly put the struts and braces on.
Not trying to be smart here, but that is a big wing and considering AUW (ie wing loading), I would definetly put the struts and braces on.
05-05-2010, 05:46 PM
#6
Thread Starter
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
Thank you, but my question still has not been answered by someone who has built and flown the plane. I acquired the plane without the struts and braces, and I have the plans but not the manual, Can anyone cite the manual as far as the need for the struts and braces?
Not trying to be smart here, but your comment on helmets and seat belts was not at all relavant.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
SPACEWORM/Richard
Not trying to be smart here, but your comment on helmets and seat belts was not at all relavant.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
SPACEWORM/Richard
05-06-2010, 09:01 AM
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RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
Yes... you need the wing struts, tail bracing optional as I have seen them both ways (with tail bracing and without). I have a NIB Midwest kit sitting at home and an older airframe someone gave me-it does not have tail bracing. The tail bracing would be dependent upon engine size and type of flying you want to do.
I really must ask....why would you even wonder about the wing struts, don't you think a scale model would look pretty stupid with one of the main features missing????????????????
I really must ask....why would you even wonder about the wing struts, don't you think a scale model would look pretty stupid with one of the main features missing????????????????
05-06-2010, 09:57 AM
#9
Thread Starter
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
Since I do not have the build manual and have not been able to find a copy of the net, do you have an extra copy that I could get from you? I would be happy to pay copying and mailing costs. Thank you very much.
Re your question of scale model. I just want to fly it ASAP and do not want to break it. My intent is to add struts and braces as/when I scale it out. I need a pilot and instrument panel, etc, also.
Thanks again.
Sincerely,
Richard
Re your question of scale model. I just want to fly it ASAP and do not want to break it. My intent is to add struts and braces as/when I scale it out. I need a pilot and instrument panel, etc, also.
Thanks again.
Sincerely,
Richard
05-06-2010, 11:37 AM
#11
Thread Starter
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
Thank you. I do have the plans that show the wing struts, but without the manual, I don't know if there should be any tension on the struts as installed ready to fly, or just to pop them in place with the clevises as they fit. Do the struts add any washout? Regarding the tail braces, the plans do not show them or their location at all. Could you copy the manual section or detail on the tail braces, please, or let me know how to locate them, and if they are wire or cable or what? Third, I do not know the CG, or the control surface throws, if that is in the manual.
Thank you very much.
Sincerely,
Richard
Thank you very much.
Sincerely,
Richard
05-06-2010, 11:59 AM
#12
Banned
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
Richard (spaceworm),
Install the wing struts for scale looks and peace of mind as someone posted.
The comparison to motorcycling was a good analogy.
Also install the tail wires.
The geometry can be from 2/3 up from the stab on the fin and similar on the stab from the fin.
Make both "wing struts and tail wires a working installation; not just an esthetics appearance.
You will be glad you did and have no regrets when you have a poor landing and/or roll over.
There is an easy way of installing wing struts that just snaps in and cannot come out on their own under tension or compression.
You had good advice in this thread. It is now your own decision.
If you wish to know more about the wing struts just ask.
They can be installed so that they can be put on and taken off in seconds.
We are all trying to help.
Best regards de Zor.
Install the wing struts for scale looks and peace of mind as someone posted.
The comparison to motorcycling was a good analogy.
Also install the tail wires.
The geometry can be from 2/3 up from the stab on the fin and similar on the stab from the fin.
Make both "wing struts and tail wires a working installation; not just an esthetics appearance.
You will be glad you did and have no regrets when you have a poor landing and/or roll over.
There is an easy way of installing wing struts that just snaps in and cannot come out on their own under tension or compression.
You had good advice in this thread. It is now your own decision.
If you wish to know more about the wing struts just ask.
They can be installed so that they can be put on and taken off in seconds.
We are all trying to help.
Best regards de Zor.
05-06-2010, 12:10 PM
#13
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RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
Hey Zor,
I'd like to see the set-up for wing struts that takes minimal time and effort to hook-up- and take apart.
Buckmeister
I'd like to see the set-up for wing struts that takes minimal time and effort to hook-up- and take apart.
Buckmeister
05-06-2010, 01:01 PM
#14
Banned
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
ORIGINAL: Buckmeister
Hey Zor,
I'd like to see the set-up for wing struts that takes minimal time and effort to hook-up- and take apart.
Buckmeister
Hey Zor,
I'd like to see the set-up for wing struts that takes minimal time and effort to hook-up- and take apart.
Buckmeister
I had a similar arrangement on a 72 inch wingspan model.
The struts never fell off in flight. They sometime fell off in crashes avoiding major wing damage.
I have to take pictures and make a sketch to explain.
Please return to see a forthcoming posting.
Zor
05-06-2010, 01:55 PM
#15
Banned
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
ORIGINAL: Zor
Hi Buckmeister and all readers,
Here is what worked nicely on a 72" wingspan Cub.
The snaps have to be good quality with good springs inside.
I am posting a picture of a typpical snap useable.
A bit of imagination to solidly mount the snaps halfs in their position.
That depends on the snaps you acquire.
Mine came from an old discarded jacket. So is the pic attached.
Since the forces of tension or compression are 90 degrees with the the slight force needed to snap in or snap out, the forces in flight are not trying to snap out the attachment.
I do not have to explain how long it takes to snap out the struts manually.
Zor
I had a similar arrangement on a 72 inch wingspan model.
The struts never fell off in flight. They sometime fell off in crashes avoiding major wing damage.
I have to take pictures and make a sketch to explain.
Please return to see a forthcoming posting.
Zor
ORIGINAL: Buckmeister
Hey Zor,
I'd like to see the set-up for wing struts that takes minimal time and effort to hook-up- and take apart.
Buckmeister
Hey Zor,
I'd like to see the set-up for wing struts that takes minimal time and effort to hook-up- and take apart.
Buckmeister
Here is what worked nicely on a 72" wingspan Cub.
The snaps have to be good quality with good springs inside.
I am posting a picture of a typpical snap useable.
A bit of imagination to solidly mount the snaps halfs in their position.
That depends on the snaps you acquire.
Mine came from an old discarded jacket. So is the pic attached.
Since the forces of tension or compression are 90 degrees with the the slight force needed to snap in or snap out, the forces in flight are not trying to snap out the attachment.
I do not have to explain how long it takes to snap out the struts manually.
Zor
I had a similar arrangement on a 72 inch wingspan model.
The struts never fell off in flight. They sometime fell off in crashes avoiding major wing damage.
I have to take pictures and make a sketch to explain.
Please return to see a forthcoming posting.
Zor
05-06-2010, 04:10 PM
#16
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RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
Hello Zor,
Even I can understand your drawing and the snap process. Looks simple to change what I have and really quick to hook-up and take apart. I don't see any issue with it popping off unless the plane is cartwheeling down the runway. Beats the living daylights out of small machine screws, washers, lock-nuts, cursing at the screw that just fell into the grass...........etc.
Now if I can just find my wife's jacket with the snaps, I'll have it done by midnight!....... Better not do that or when I back from the airfield I'll find my fleet might have some high heeled footprints on them.
Thanks.
Buckmeister
Even I can understand your drawing and the snap process. Looks simple to change what I have and really quick to hook-up and take apart. I don't see any issue with it popping off unless the plane is cartwheeling down the runway. Beats the living daylights out of small machine screws, washers, lock-nuts, cursing at the screw that just fell into the grass...........etc.
Now if I can just find my wife's jacket with the snaps, I'll have it done by midnight!....... Better not do that or when I back from the airfield I'll find my fleet might have some high heeled footprints on them.
Thanks.
Buckmeister
05-12-2010, 06:51 PM
#17
Banned
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
ORIGINAL: Buckmeister
Hello Zor,
Even I can understand your drawing and the snap process. Looks simple to change what I have and really quick to hook-up and take apart. I don't see any issue with it popping off unless the plane is cartwheeling down the runway. Beats the living daylights out of small machine screws, washers, lock-nuts, cursing at the screw that just fell into the grass...........etc.
Now if I can just find my wife's jacket with the snaps, I'll have it done by midnight!....... Better not do that or when I back from the airfield I'll find my fleet might have some high heeled footprints on them.
Thanks.
Buckmeister
Hello Zor,
Even I can understand your drawing and the snap process. Looks simple to change what I have and really quick to hook-up and take apart. I don't see any issue with it popping off unless the plane is cartwheeling down the runway. Beats the living daylights out of small machine screws, washers, lock-nuts, cursing at the screw that just fell into the grass...........etc.
Now if I can just find my wife's jacket with the snaps, I'll have it done by midnight!....... Better not do that or when I back from the airfield I'll find my fleet might have some high heeled footprints on them.
Thanks.
Buckmeister
Zor
05-12-2010, 09:17 PM
#18
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
I flew this model for over three years and enjoyed every minute with it...and yes I did use the wing struts. I used a nylon clevis on the wing and a nut/bolt where it met the fuse. No tension needed. They made a cool whistling sound when I made a high speed run down the runway. Used a Saito 91 in her and fiberglass cowl/wheel pants from Stans Fiberglass. I even have another kit NIB sitting in the garage right now! It is a FAST building plane with the exception of the aileron servo mounting method shown - once the servos are in, they are in for the duration!!!!
05-13-2010, 02:51 AM
#19
Banned
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
ORIGINAL: tailskid
I flew this model for over three years and enjoyed every minute with it...and yes I did use the wing struts. I used a nylon clevis on the wing and a nut/bolt where it met the fuse. No tension needed. They made a cool whistling sound when I made a high speed run down the runway. Used a Saito 91 in her and fiberglass cowl/wheel pants from Stans Fiberglass. I even have another kit NIB sitting in the garage right now! It is a FAST building plane with the exception of the aileron servo mounting method shown - once the servos are in, they are in for the duration!!!!
I flew this model for over three years and enjoyed every minute with it...and yes I did use the wing struts. I used a nylon clevis on the wing and a nut/bolt where it met the fuse. No tension needed. They made a cool whistling sound when I made a high speed run down the runway. Used a Saito 91 in her and fiberglass cowl/wheel pants from Stans Fiberglass. I even have another kit NIB sitting in the garage right now! It is a FAST building plane with the exception of the aileron servo mounting method shown - once the servos are in, they are in for the duration!!!!
It makes me wonder how much force in pounds (lbs) would be typically necessary to shear a nylon clevis assuming its point of attach is undamaged.
You may tell me to try it myself. I may just do that. I am now curious how much tension force a nylon clevis can resist before shearing.
I used metal clevis on the working flying wires of my Skybolt.
Zor
05-13-2010, 08:29 AM
#20
Senior Member
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
I have used the large ball joints to attach struts with good results. As long as the force is in the proper direction, they will withstand considerable force. That direction being at right angles to the pin attaching the ball joint to the structure. When you make those wing struts, do make sure they are of the proper length. You do not want them to change the angle of attack of the wing when you install them, i.e. the length has to be quite exact when you construct them.
05-13-2010, 10:33 AM
#21
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RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
Hello Zor,
I am going to adapt it to the wing struts on a Rearwin Speedster 96" wingspan. It won't look scale, but I don't care. While I won't fly a lot of aerobatics, I think the snap method will be strong enough if I decided to do a few loops. It sure will make the assembly very quick. It will be a few weeks before I can get to it and give it a real good wiggle!
I fly in South Florida where it is very hot and muggy. The only thing worse than a 20 minute wing assembly with sweat dripping off your nose is picking up the pieces. I don't believe that will be an issue.
Buckmeister
I am going to adapt it to the wing struts on a Rearwin Speedster 96" wingspan. It won't look scale, but I don't care. While I won't fly a lot of aerobatics, I think the snap method will be strong enough if I decided to do a few loops. It sure will make the assembly very quick. It will be a few weeks before I can get to it and give it a real good wiggle!
I fly in South Florida where it is very hot and muggy. The only thing worse than a 20 minute wing assembly with sweat dripping off your nose is picking up the pieces. I don't believe that will be an issue.
Buckmeister
05-13-2010, 11:50 AM
#22
Banned
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
Buckmeister,
Rodney in post #20 shows he has used the the plug in ball joint which is somewaht equivlent to using metal snaps.
Personally I would prefer the snap because they have strong retaining metal spring inside and are all metal.
I think that can be more reliable then trust the elasticity of the plastic to retain the snapin and do not snap out easily. I may be wrong but I think the pall joibt are partly plastic and some special little pliers are used to snap them out (or in ?).
I know that ball joints are used a lot in helicopters and in control rods but then, they are not subject to strong forces like they can be on struts.
The ball jointsmay be a lot easier to install than the snaps.
Zor
05-13-2010, 12:46 PM
#23
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RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
I read his post and like the snaps better.
I have had ball links get loose from wear on throttle connections.
My Rearwin Speedster will have a Zenoah G-38 shakin her feathers pretty good. The snaps can be made tighter with a squeze of the plyers My leather vest snaps have learned this as my belly has grown to stretch the leather.
Buckmeister.
I have had ball links get loose from wear on throttle connections.
My Rearwin Speedster will have a Zenoah G-38 shakin her feathers pretty good. The snaps can be made tighter with a squeze of the plyers My leather vest snaps have learned this as my belly has grown to stretch the leather.
Buckmeister.
05-13-2010, 11:15 PM
#25
Banned
RE: Midwest Citabria wing struts and tail braces
ORIGINAL: tailskid
I think the amount of 'give' this wing has is next to nothing when the G forces climb, hence the nylon clevis' did their job successfully!
I think the amount of 'give' this wing has is next to nothing when the G forces climb, hence the nylon clevis' did their job successfully!
My Skybolt, fully aeroatic, does not need any flying wires.
I installed working flying wires made of 0.030" dia stainless steel wires.
Each one adjustable by a metal clevis threaded 2-56.
The weakest point is probably the clevis pin that goes intoaluminum alloy (alclad) ferrule 0.043" thick.
Ya it sounds funny to call an alluminum piece a "ferrule"
Ferrule means "iron" ( fer in French)
It is certainly pretty strong wings. So are the tail feathers.
The main thing here is that we do things our own way and have some fun doing it.
Zor
