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-   -   Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em.... (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/kit-building-121/11299882-torque-rods-love-em-hate-em.html)

EscapeFlyer 11-16-2012 06:02 PM

Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
Aileron torque rods.

Do you use them?

I am sure people had been using dual aileron servos before this, but from my research, it was Chip Hyde that really made the use of dual aileron servos popular. Before this, we relied primarily on torque rods.

Personally, I believe they receive a lot of undeserved flak. I have my opinions that basically say people just do not know how to install them. There is a pivot point to these torque rods. The hinge line needs to be centered on this pivot point. Because of this, the torque rod needs to be recessed into the TE of the wing slightly to match the prefered alignment of our hinging.

Without doing this, we are putting strain on the glue joints of the hinges, as well as the glue joint of the rod in the aileron. This explains why so many people complain about them wobbling loose.

I do not believe it is the technology, but the assembly. This does not mean you are religated to one servo either! You can still hook up one servo per torque rod in the center of the wing.

Anyone else out there like torque rods? Share pics if interested.

I will be building a BlueJay Dirty Birdy kit this winter. I'll be using the torque rods- much to the frustration of a lot of people! It cleans up the airfoil and looks great! They are reliable if installed properly.

Brian

invertmast 11-16-2012 08:32 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
It entirely depends on the application. Some models work well with torque rods, others do not..

EscapeFlyer 11-16-2012 08:49 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
I certainly wouldn't want to use this application on a large amazingly scaled jet powered F-14 Tomcat! :)

I was taking that point for granted....

Typically 40-60 size sport aircraft such as pattern/classic pattern aircraft and aerobatic aircraft like your Ultimates and Extras, your Kaos and Stick.... etc.

If properly installed, torque rods will not give you problems.

Brian

flyinwalenda 11-16-2012 08:49 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
When the torque rod equipped planes start to give me problems I remove them and install two servos. New builds will not have torque rods as long as the wing can support  the added servos.

foodstick 11-16-2012 09:25 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
In the right setup I always liked them. Its nice to use one decent servo, and not have to build and cover servo bays in the wing...

Top_Gunn 11-17-2012 05:04 AM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
I think I agree with just about everybody who posted here: sometimes torque rods are the better choice, sometimes they aren't. This is a choice the poll doesn't give us. On a plane I'm building now (Ultrasport 60) I'm going both ways: torque rods for the flaps, servos in the wings for the ailerons.

Propworn 11-17-2012 05:45 AM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
Hidden torque rods work wonderful


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBdxGvhvIpc[/youtube]

tailskid 11-17-2012 08:46 AM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
My biggest complaint about Touque Rods is that they sometimes interfere with the wing hold down attachment. Other than that - no biggie!

Gray Beard 11-17-2012 08:52 AM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
Heck Brian, I'm using a single elevator servo and a nyrod for the elevator on my Swoose. I have used the old torque rods in the past for ailerons but no longer ever use them. The reason isn't because they don't work because if done correctly they work quite well but in this day and age we have such a great selection of servo sizes and prices plus the radios we now have make the torque rods obsolete. I find them more work to set up then the two servo set up and I like being able to adjust and set up the Diff with two servos.
They work and work well but I moved on with the times. If I had a reason to use the torque rods in a plane I wouldn't hesitate, The old school Satyr I'm building is one I would use them on but it's not getting ailerons at all. Three channel is fun too.
Because I have built and flown the Dirty Birdy the thought of using the torque rods would never even cross my mind. It's a big precision plane that will travel at some pretty fast speeds and you could get some control flex with the system.
There were reasons for the single servo torque rod systems back in the day but we have moved way past those reasons today. I wouldn't use the system in the DB but that's just my thinking. The plane will fly with it, not like it's going to fall out of the sky, just better ways to do things. I wouldn't buy a car with drum brakes either but all my drag cars had them and they worked, not well compared to the breaking systems we have today but I didn't die when I had to hit the binders. Went out of my lane a few times though!:D

EscapeFlyer 11-17-2012 10:54 AM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
Quote:

Because I have built and flown the Dirty Birdy the thought of using the torque rods would never even cross my mind. It's a big precision plane that will travel at some pretty fast speeds and you could get some control flex with the system.
Gene-

I think the flex issue is related to a few things- but not to the torque rod assembly.

I do not believe plastic film coverings offer the rigid finish. Finishing with fiberglass or fabric/dope I believe helps fix this... as well as building up an aileron from gluing two sticks together and sanding to the airfoil. Sheeted foam would be an even better option.

I don't want the servo arm, push rod, and control horn hanging out in the wind- not that it will effect a whole lot, I just don't want it in this case.

Truth be told, in a classic pattern application, I believe the torque rod makes more sense. But that is just me and I am really not that important in the history of model aviation, so it can only be taken with a grain of salt anyhow.

tailskid-

I agree with your assessment. It can interfere with internal hardware if the install is not properly pre-planned.

Top_Gunn-

I am assuming a proper application within my reasoning. You are correct that there comes a point where the application just will not make sence... especially in giant scale and jet aircraft.

Brian

Gray Beard 11-17-2012 05:35 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
We have had hidden systems for years. I still have a couple in my shop but I have only used them on a true scale plane. I have seen a newer system that kind of torques the control with a joint and bent control arm, fully hidden. I have used a lot of torque rods and they work fine, I just don't use them these days. Can't recall ever having any real problems with them either. I have seen an aileron servo lock up on a two servo set up while the plane was doing a roll, the plane wouldn't come out of the roll and went through a five strand barb wire fence so I know the two servo system isn't fool proof either.
As my instructor told me, it's your plane, you can do anything you like to it. We used torque rods for a lot of years and they work. I just no longer use them so I voted never.

Zor 11-17-2012 08:12 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes

Aileron torque rods.
>
>
>
I will be building a BlueJay Dirty Birdy kit this winter. I'll be using the torque rods- much to the frustration of a lot of people! It cleans up the airfoil and looks great! They are reliable if installed properly.

Brian
Brian,

Just make sure the rods are not too long and too small or you may run into flutter while the rod is twisting and the ailerons or flaps go into resonance.

Zor
.

sensei 11-17-2012 10:07 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
Many long years ago I also used torque rods, but I would not even think of using them today with such great technology in servos and radios, besides the best place to control an aileron from a flexing or flutter standpoint in from the center of the aileron, not the end...

Bob

EscapeFlyer 11-17-2012 10:44 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
Wow.

ARFs have made us soft.

Brian

sensei 11-17-2012 10:54 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes

Wow.

ARFs have made us soft.

Brian
I wouldn't know, I scratch build most all my stuff...

Bob

combatpigg 11-17-2012 10:57 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
I like having both options. The set up that I've never had the nerve to try [especially with a fast plane] is the worm drive actuators sold by Graupner. I don't know how well they would hold up. Speedplanes don't need much aileron deflection, 1/16" either way from center is enough.

357ross 11-18-2012 06:48 AM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
Torque rods came at an early time in r/c, when equipment was heavy, expensive, and transmitters were very limited in their capabilities. Torque rods worked very well then, and still do for many appilcations, however, today's engines, computer radios, specialized servos, leave little reason to use torque rods in most planes today. Dual servos are so much easier for me to set up correctly, I don't use torque rods very much anymore. Not meant to be a slam on torque rods, just sayin.....

ARUP 11-18-2012 07:18 AM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
I like using torque rods.

sensei 11-18-2012 07:46 AM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
There is nothing wrong with using torque rods at all, to me it is just a little too old school and there is just much better ways of getting things done today, besides on the larger stuff that allot of us fly today, torque rods just won't get it done.

Bob

Gray Beard 11-18-2012 07:56 AM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes

Wow.

ARFs have made us soft.

Brian
Only ARF I own is the little electric Extra from Aeroworks, it uses two aileron servos too. Big control surfaces but I don't think that is the reason it was designed for two servos.

ARUP 11-18-2012 03:07 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
Full scale is pretty large and lots of them use torque rods.

tailskid 11-18-2012 03:34 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
I remember a day when we would use one torque rod with another so one could do flaps, the other ailerons. The only problem with torque rods is if the single servo goes into the weeds, you are in big trouble!

sensei 11-18-2012 06:19 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: ARUP

Full scale is pretty large and lots of them use torque rods.
Generally speaking full scale aircraft utilize torque tubes not rods in their application and they are not used is the same application that we are talking about in our model aircraft ailerons. They are utilized largely in control systems where there is a long run or several runs from the point of input to bell cranks and finally output tubes from that point and so on. By design they use tubes because tubes are much more rigid and light weight compared to rods, there application is simple; they are used to handle mainly compression loads and some tension loads in the control system while maintaining rigidity, they are not generally used or needed for twisting loads like we did with our models ailerons years ago, I mean like some of us still do.:D

Bob

EscapeFlyer 11-18-2012 06:48 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
Quote:

I mean like some of us still do.
;)

I probably do no good by stirring the pot like this. But I really want people to consider their options.

I will be using one servo per torque rod. So I won't be limited that way.

I bet I would really make a mess by telling people that I might build the DB with the hardwood engine mount rails as shown in the RCM plans too. :D

The opinion poll show 34 to 10. I am losing the popular vote! That is for sure.

Brian

tailskid 11-18-2012 06:52 PM

RE: Torque Rods! Love 'em or hate 'em....
 
Hardwood mounts.....I like the idea - as it always worked in the past and I'll assume it will continue to work in the future. Good thinking (outside the box)


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