Do I need this stuff?
 

Do I really need this stuff? Is this a good buy or is there something more durable or more accurate? I hate buying stuff I really won't or don't need just because a website says you need it.
[img]webkit-fake-url://C580FDCC-9299-4042-AD12-565F40EFC938/imagepng[/img][img]webkit-fake-url://B9885D8F-0090-4981-BF40-2C8558946C1B/imagepng[/img]

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

What stuff?

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Mike<div>
</div><div>Your pics did not expand. Don't know what you are questioning.</div>

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

I guess the images didn't load right, here's the links:<div>
</div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&amp;I=LXK259&amp;P=8</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&amp;I=LXK260&amp;P=8</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">
</span></div>

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

#1 Handy to have although there are alternatives on the end of my hand that I use:)

#2 I use a ruler or tape measure that I hold up againt a deflecting surface.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Lol, thanks rafeeki. So I guess there's accurate less expensive alternative ways then buying these things.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

I wouldnt say accurate but alternatives.http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../lightbulb.gif

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Those items fall in my category of "nice to have but not necessary to have" :).

Karol

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Right, and with all the stuff I'm having to buy just to get started, I'm trying to get the difference between the two of need to have and wold be nice to have.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

I do the same.
Some of those gadgets are ok but they are gadgets that you can get by fine without.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Look in the classifieds , swap meets or ebay and buy them used.  I picked up the set ...used...for around $12.00.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

These are the kind of gadgets that you go without for a very long time, then you get one and it's " I don't know how I got along without it."


Frank

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

And how about the epoxy and the 10 different glues and removers tower hobbies is advising I buy in order to assemble the piper cub I am going to build, are these glues found cheaper elsewhere and are there any alternatives?<div>
</div><div>I can post a list of what theyre recommending if it helps.</div>

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

There are a ton of things that you will be told you need. A lot of them could be listed in the "nice to have" category. These are two of them. If you own them, you will use them, but not necessary to get started. Ask if someone else in your club would lend you there's for a day.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Thanks for the advice KevinKevin

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

This is what u need:

1. 5 &amp; 15 min epoxy. Maybe 30 min for the firewall
2. Thin and medium CA glues, just have a small fan mounted nearby to push the fumes away.
3. Enjoy peeling the CA glue off your finger tips like we used to do with the old Duco cement (old timers will remember) or the UHU glue.
4. Retractable utility knifes two sizes.
5. Sanding paper &amp; bars 2 sizes.
6. Good grade sealing iron &amp; air dryer (not your wife's hair dryer).


Have fun:))

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Need?? Most anything store bought can be made. I just happen to have the CG machine and I had the throw meter they sell but when I have nothing better to do I pick up some of my scrap wood and make my own degree meters for setting my control throws. I make up a bunch and give them to friends. The CG machine can also be made and if you want a real slick one look up Vanessa as the key word and you will find the instructions for making one, a very good one right here on RCU.
All these items are nice to have but not really needed. A good ruler is your friend. A base board with some holes drilled into it and a pair of pencils makes a good CG machine.
A lot of ways to do the same thing without spending any money.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

I've been building airplanes for more than 45 years and I don't see paying money for these things.

As to CG, setting up according to plans is only the first step in trimming an airplane and it only has to be close. Then you need to adjust it based on flight performance. So what I'm saying is that balancing on finger tips is close enough for the first flight and then you'll adjust from there based on flight testing.

Controls throws are the same sort of thing. Mfg recommendations are just that, recommendations. Use a ruler to set them. Fly it and see how it feels. Adjust from there. Do be sure to go back and make sure that both ailerons have identical throws. Again, low tech is plenty. A dime store ruler works just as well as some fancy gauge to make sure that both ailerons or both elevator halves have the same amount of throw.

Spend the money where it counts, radio, engine, aircraft, ...

Dave

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

My exact thought....I'd rather put my money into higher quality equipment then by unnecessary items.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

To me this was the most fun time, all the learning. Don't be overwhelmed, it could easily happen with all the options that are out there today. You will figure out what is best for you in time. In the mean time enjoy.
Here are some other slightly different ideas to refeeki's
1. 5 & (30 minute epoxy)
2. Thin and medium CA glues (and accelerator).
3. Enjoy peeling the CA glue off your finger tips like we used to do with the old Duco cement (old timers will remember) or the UHU glue. :D
4. Retractable utility knifes two sizes. (I use an Exacto knife with a #11 blade most of the time.)
5. Sanding paper & bars 2 sizes. (Sanding blocks are ok, usually use 80 grit and 160 grit for starters.)
6. Good grade sealing iron (perhaps a Top Flite, the air gun can wait.)
(7. I use Titebond II as much as possible. It is a slow drying glue you can get at a hardware store, less costly than the CA's. CA's have their place as well.)

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

I'm not really overwhelmed its just that my mind is pulling me all over the place. I'm one to take hours to compare prices and review products before I make a purchase, I am having fun though and I sure am learning a lot the more I look at parts.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

1. YES
2. YES

Do you have any idea how many airplanes I have seen get crashed on the first flight due to improper CG and/or control throws?

The guys who say you don't need a balancer or a deflection gauge may know more than others. And just like him I can eyeball everything from my 48" Hangar 9 Tribute 36 to my 106" Extra 330 in terms of throws. CG I ALWAYSmeasure, and check it about 10 times. Do I need a balancer? Nope, but it gives you the knowledge and experience to balance an airplane properly and set the throws accurately according to the manufacturers specs.

Ever hear the term "It flew right off the table"? That is because it was set-up properly before flying. I rarely need more than click or two of trim on my maidens. But I also set then up as perfectly as I can and I use all those fancy little tools.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

1. No<div>2. No</div>

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

I don't believe any one here has eluded to the fact we should be sloppy with the set ups. I agree 100% that the plane must have the correct CG and control throws set for first flight success. The point is one does not need some gadget to do that. Measure, mark the CG and check it by lifting the model (sometimes that takes two people). Get out your measuring tape or ruler and check the control throws. Make sure they are right and you will be successful. It is that simple. There is no need to complicate basic, good techniques.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

I'm not one with any experience here which is why I asked the questions obviously. I'll probably pass on the, at this point being I have some willing guidance at my club for help and ensure I'm doing the right thing.<div>
the fact that I have plenty of other experienced folks here telling me I don't need it gives me confidence as well.

</div><div></div>

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Last week I just maidened my latest build, I was off 4 clicks for the aileron trim. That was a lot off for one of my planes. I'm not saying you don't need to do everything as accurately as you can, just that you need not buy a lot of items to do it. In my old shop I didn't use a CG machine on my bigger planes, no need, my shop was big enough to set up a pulley and plumb bob so I could hang my planes to get the correct CG. By making my own degree meters I know exactly how many degrees my controls are set, they are all even. My head still swells up when I do a maiden that requires no trim or control set up changes.
I just feel there is no reason to spend money on something when I can make it myself for free and have something even better then is being sold.
I agree with Giant Scale, I'm just not going to run out and buy a tool when I can make it. Making my own tools is also a hobby just like modeling.;)
Like OSG, put your money into things like glue and epoxy, you don't need to buy plastic tools, make them yourself. :D

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Basic, old school works just as well as gadgets. I'm a tech geek, but you may find a lot of that stuff stays in the drawer. The one gadget I find handy is a Robart incidence meter, but still not a must-have item. When measuring CG, I put some trim tape (or a magic marker) on the manufacturer's recommended CG, then have a ready reference during the final build phase. <div>
</div><div>We had a member show up with an Aeroworks 1/4-scale Extra to maiden. He hadn't checked the Cg, so I downloaded the manual on my phone and we used a tape measure to mark the spot on each wing. It was assembled, so another member and I used our Mk1-A fingertips to lift the plane. It was spot-on, which was reassuring. After all that, we had to wait an hour to maiden it. Seems he forgot to fully charge the battery lol. </div><div>Good luck, have fun and Happy New Year!</div>

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

...thats what you get when you ask for people's opinions.
I agree with most of them - the CG is something you need to check once your plane is about ready to fly. It can be done easily without any tools.
For my bigger planes I have build my own CG machine, the smaller ones still get balanced on the finger tips.

So for your first plane you'll be fine without these, the deflection can be measured with a ruler.

For the glue - I build my kits with regular Gorilla Glue or Elmer's carpenter glue. Works great, even on the big gassers.
When you need more strength - on the firewall. landing gear and wing brackets - use epoxy and fiberglass.

I use very little CA, can't stand the smell and it's hard to get it off of your hands.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

How does one go about correcting the CG of an aircraft?

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Findsomeone (a futurebuddy possibly) who is pretty good at flying and has a big smile after a flight.tHERE WILL BE A LOT OVE THESE GUYS
nEXT, ASK IF HE BUILDS KITS. iF HE SAYS YES, ASK IF HE WOULD LOOK OVER THE PROGRESS YOU MAKE ON YOUR FIRST KIT BUILD.
Assuming the person actually buils and flys, he will probably say yes.

There aresome tools that are helpful, but a buildre buddy willprobablyshow you how to balance and set up the plane without any of the tools.

I am of the belief that balancing in a couple of fingers works great with a helpful more experienced friend. Measuring control surface throws to the manufactures plan only requires a ruler.
After flying to manufactures specs, you might want to tweak it with some input fromsome experienced flyers/builders.

Take as much time reading the instructions over and over, like you do before buying something will be more helpful than anything else you can do.
,
I am fortunate to have made friends with some well known competitive builderflyers, and they own almost every tool.

However, they read the blue print and plans over and over so that they understand at least a few steps ahead.

They take great pains to make sure everything is straight as and arrow and eactly the same on both sides. (Even if the blueprint doesn't exactly match the pieces.)

They dry fit and sand to perefection before glueing.
After that.

Titebond or similar yellow carpenters glue (waterproof)
, medium CA, 3
30Minute epoxyglue,
a long metal ruler (3 or 4 ft long)
, lots of pins.
wax paper to put over the plans,
a perfectly flat building borad,
Small hobby saw,
Sanding blocks with 100 grit and 180 grit paper,
hobby knife
and patience like you have with shopping for info on what to buy.
When you get moving along, take the plane to meetings or the field and let others take a look.

Everyone has an opinion, and some of thoose opinions are actually useful.

The best advise I ever had was "figure it out the best you can and glue it".
The worst that can happen is that you have to sand or cut something away and fix it or add another layer of balsa to fill the gap wher you messed up.

The tools you are looking at buying are not needed (if at all) until the plane is almost ready to fly.

Have fun, relax and ask members of a local club to take a look at your progress.
Most builders of kits are more than willing to help other kit builders.

Another person said it well when he said, build a good kit, with good motor, and a good radio and servos.
Do not skimp on the above.

The tools are just a helpful means of using the kit, motor, radio.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Do a search on here for "Vanessa." You'll find a CG rig that is at least as accurate as the one you showed and which you can make out of stuff you've probably got and can buy cheap if you don't. On small planes, balancing on your finger tips works just fine and is even cheaper. You can measure throws accurately enough for any trainer or sport model with a ruler. Measure at the widest point of the deflected surface.

As for changing the CG, the ideal way is to move things like batteries to get the balance point where you need it. If that doesn't work, you'll need to add weight (usually up front). You can buy "stick on" lead weights which don't stick all that well.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

No.
No.
The single most useful "gadget" I have ever purchased is the GP Slot Machine. Best twenty or so bucks I ever spent for building.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Location of servo's , battery , or adding weight[:@] if needed

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

wait till a swap meet at the local club.. lots of gadgets .. been flying a long time.. never had ethier of those items :)

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Way back I only used titebond on the entire plane and never had a joint failure. Today, because I can, I use epoxy and CA. I have to say for me medium CA is worth it when sheeting with balsa.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

Mike,
You mind is not pulling you all over the place, the advertising is.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

1 NO
2 NO
there other ways to do this correctly with out these gagets and the ones shown aren't very good quality. there are better ones on the market when you really want them.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

it ranks right up there with the woodpecker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

The best thing about a CG machine is that you can move stuff around with the plane sitting on it and know its all in the right spot.  That is hard to do while it is sitting on your fingertips.

I have the one pictured for my smaller planes and a much larger one for my giant scale.  I wouldn't take double for either of them if I couldn't replace them.

RE: Do I need this stuff?
 

I built my first kit (a goldberg cub) with nothing but the basic glues, sanding, and cutting devices menrioned above. To me a good flat straighr stainless ruler is essential to building and setting the plane up. My plane flew great right off the table. I was even complemented by some of the veterans at the club on what a nice job I did and how well it flew.  I recently lost the plane to a radio glitch caused by a used ebay receiver that I saved $20.00 on.  (I cant resist a "bargain")  Long story short forget the gimicks and hype and use common sense. Also as mentioned above spend it where it counts.  I lost $300.00 because I saved $20.00 on a receiver.