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-   -   Top Flite 1/7 P-51 Build (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/kit-building-121/2886581-top-flite-1-7-p-51-build.html)

G.F. Reid 07-12-2016 10:41 AM

I just realized after looking at ALL of your pics that you are running a gas engine. Unlikely to be a fuel delivery problem as I guessed earlier.
What engine is that by the way?

acdii 07-12-2016 04:16 PM

I didn't catch the engine you are running, but if its a DLE20 or similar, then burbling is normal for them. Every one I have been around makes that sound when at WOT or high throttle. I have had mine quit on final a few times, never could figure out why.

I have an oddity with my Saito FG-11 in my T-Clips. I can fly it around for 20, 30 minutes, not have any issues, throttle down to idle, float it, make it fly backwards in a head wind, etc. go WOT fly it around some more, and land it. And Every Stinking Time I land, when it comes to a stop, the engine quits. No clue WHY it stops once I land and the plane comes to a stop. I even tried to throttle up just before it stopped rolling and it still quit.

hipik634 07-12-2016 09:07 PM

Acdii, same at me. Must be an effect from air. When you are flying, the air helps spin the prop. On the ground you have to have your mix perfect. While the engine is hot after run it needs a different mix than four cold start

BigTeeEldorado 07-13-2016 05:44 AM


Originally Posted by G.F. Reid (Post 12234088)
I just realized after looking at ALL of your pics that you are running a gas engine. Unlikely to be a fuel delivery problem as I guessed earlier.
What engine is that by the way?

It is a DLE 20

Got my struts in the mail and hope to be able to fly it again this weekend if I get time to work on it.

hipik634 07-15-2016 05:19 AM

dont forget the gopro on your head :) i am using it as a black box for my plane :) you never know what went wrong without it ...
meanwhile i completed the coloring (basic one) for the plane to be setup. if it will fly good enough, i will add weathering and other stuff later. So finally i can move forward. I decided to let the gear fail on the four screws that holds the struts, so they will be unbendable. but still - wing with servos and gear is on 65 oz, still seems a bit heavy

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2173012http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2173014

FlyerInOKC 07-15-2016 07:51 AM


Originally Posted by hipik634 (Post 12235110)
dont forget the gopro on your head :) i am using it as a black box for my plane :) you never know what went wrong without it ...
meanwhile i completed the coloring (basic one) for the plane to be setup. if it will fly good enough, i will add weathering and other stuff later. So finally i can move forward. I decided to let the gear fail on the four screws that holds the struts, so they will be unbendable. but still - wing with servos and gear is on 65 oz, still seems a bit heavy

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2173012http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2173014

Your attachments are throwing the following error: Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

hipik634 07-15-2016 08:59 AM

3 Attachment(s)
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2173024http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2173025http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2173026

Temporary assembled to assess :)

FlyerInOKC 07-15-2016 10:39 AM

Love it great job!

BigTeeEldorado 07-15-2016 11:59 AM


Originally Posted by hipik634 (Post 12235110)
dont forget the gopro on your head :) i am using it as a black box for my plane :) you never know what went wrong without it ...
meanwhile i completed the coloring (basic one) for the plane to be setup. if it will fly good enough, i will add weathering and other stuff later. So finally i can move forward. I decided to let the gear fail on the four screws that holds the struts, so they will be unbendable. but still - wing with servos and gear is on 65 oz, still seems a bit heavy

Honestly, don't worry about your weight. You are well within a good range. Mine flies way better than I expected and I am close to a pound heavier than you. With the flaps at about 30 it floated to a walking pace today.

Yes, I got a chance to go out this morning with a new set of struts attached. I rebound the way I wanted to to be sure I would keep the engine running if I got hit again and test ran the engine yesterday evening without finding any issues. Unfortunately I got two flights in this morning with almost identical results as the last time.

First flight : I have to get used to the ground handling because I aborted the first attempt at takeoff trying to keep it straight down the runway then let it get away again on the second attempt but just went WOT and put it in the air. Once in the air you can definitely feel the gear until they come up, then it flies like its on rails. Unbelievable turning radius without even the slightest hint of stalling. Inverted required so little input to stay level it was actually a little hard to do without porpoising across the sky. Made only about 4 or 5 passes, I wanted to get it down and check the hits again in case there was an issue. The guys behind me were all saying "try this or try that", loops were straight, vertical was unlimited, rolls were very smooth and straight, no yaw, only thing I didn't try was knife edge. Set up for landing high again but this time with full flaps and had to dive to get it down. I had mixed in a very small amount of up elevator with the flaps for this flight intending to progressively increase it as needed after each flight until it was right. Ended up to be too much and had to take half of what I put in out. The little bit of up elevator mixed into the flaps made it so I had to push the nose down all through the approach. So the first landing was not as smooth as it could have been (shaky hands :p. Added a little throttle about 30 feet off the ground because full flaps slows it way down and let it descend to about a foot off and pulled just a little flair to still leave the tail off the ground and there was no bounce at all with about a 20 foot roll out. It definitely floats at full flaps!!

After the flight I checked the hits with the data reader and got results similar to yesterdays first flight all well within acceptable numbers, 30's to 40's. Then focused on a little design issue with the guys cause my tail wheel got hung up and didn't come down. (minor) watched some of the other guys fly and felt like maybe the radio hit from the last time I flew was going to be the anomaly and never show up again.

Second flight: Did much better on the takeoff anticipating the left turn and feeding in the power much slower helped keep it straight down the runway. Once in the air, pretty much the same as the first flight. Awesome awesome flyer. But cutting to the issue. After only the 3rd pass on the downwind again in the middle of a relatively slow turn because I was planning on slow flight, gear up with flaps. You guessed it.....major control hit. Nosed over and spun towards the ground. I got it back after about the second revolution, pulled up and set up for landing about 30 feet off the ground. Still had the engine so I leveled it until I could see the gear was all the way down and it worked out perfect, just brought it in. (By the way, after resetting the flap elevator mix it greased in)

Data reader showed 700's One of the guys suggested we try a range check with the plane at different angles. My first range check this morning was with me at a right angle to the plane and it went fine, low numbers on all antennas except "L" which had about 200. So we started with the nose pointed at me and it failed miserably on all antennas, without the engine running, so it is not as a result of ignition interference. I got on the phone right then and there to Horizon got a tech and talked through the antenna locations, model type, configuration including ignition and what was happening. Only suggestion was try different antenna locations, range check, if its not good relocate antennas and check again. If I can't get the numbers down I am supposed to send it in for service (it's brand new) :(

Obviously I'm not happy about receiver issues with a brand new unit but it is what it is at this point. I'll let you all know how it goes as I work through this. Too nice of a plane to ground for very long but also too nice to lose.

acdii 07-15-2016 12:18 PM

What does the RX look like? I have had issues with Spectrum/JR which has the remote antenna, which gives it 4 little antennas to grab signal, and have had a few different types of planes with brownouts. Those are scary since they take a second or more to reconnect, which can mean the difference between a save and a crash. I have since switched to Futaba, and haven't looked back. I still have a couple planes on the JR, but they are getting moved to Futaba as soon as I get a few more RX. I use FRSKY receivers with my 14SG radio, they are inexpensive at $25-$40 each depending on channels. Never had an RF issue with them, though I did have one that didn't want to bind to my TX. I have an 8FGS and the 14SG, which are really the exact same radio, the 14 being newer with more features and telemetry, also backwards compatible with FAAST, and S-FHSS, where the 8FGS is FAAST only.

By trial and error I found the Futaba to be more reliable than Spectrum & JR.

BigTeeEldorado 07-15-2016 12:51 PM


Originally Posted by acdii (Post 12235248)
By trial and error I found the Futaba to be more reliable than Spectrum & JR.

I have had great luck so far with Spektrum and really , Horizon always takes care of me.

But I am getting a little disillusioned with this issue. Others I fly with have Futaba, I know how their system works and I started with it over 30 years ago. If there was no financial consideration I would probably consider the switch at this point. I not sure how long my luck is going to hold out. Two near misses is already over my limit!!:p

hipik634 07-15-2016 10:07 PM

Rolling on hitec aurora and optimas, but i must say, that i have medvěd had an issue with eclipse, with aurora i had 2 or 3 unpleasant experiences. And on the water aurora just seems to be not strong enough even if it is the same manufacturer.
About the weight .. I forgot to add engine :))) so that would be 4,7 kilograms 10,5 pounds :)))

FlyerInOKC 07-18-2016 05:43 AM

I will say this I'm a Futaba user and have never had to send a radio in for repair. That said the LHS owner has a friend who is an Engineer and expert on radio systems for the DoD and FAA. Whenever a new radio system comes out he gives him a radio system to test to purposely find conditions where a shoot down could occur due to radio interference. He has tested JR, Spectrum, an Futaba, of these the only bulletproof system he failed to find a way interference could cause a failure was the FASST system. .

BigTeeEldorado 07-18-2016 07:34 PM


Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC (Post 12235956)
I will say this I'm a Futaba user and have never had to send a radio in for repair. That said the LHS owner has a friend who is an Engineer and expert on radio systems for the DoD and FAA. Whenever a new radio system comes out he gives him a radio system to test to purposely find conditions where a shoot down could occur due to radio interference. He has tested JR, Spectrum, an Futaba, of these the only bulletproof system he failed to find a way interference could cause a failure was the FASST system. .

I do not respond to disagree with your assessment of the FASST system, I like how it works too.

What I would add is that the Spektrum DSMX is essentially the exact same system now. Difference being only that the DSMX will stop hopping if it lands on a clean frequency where FASST keeps going, never stops hopping. Both systems have the entire band to work within and the only interference that should be effecting either system is something that interferes over a wide area of the 2.4 band all at once. Things like very high gain antennas that basically overtalk any weaker signal and tend to bleed into wide areas of the band because of the high power output. Or uncontrolled environmental stuff like sun spots that again kind of drown out the more tuned signals operating at lower power levels.

So even though I agree you should be proud of the Futaba system and justifiably so, DSMX should be equal in engineering and design simply because both have the ability to use the entire band in the span of a millisecond. Neither my thumb nor my plane can identify a millisecond. At the time I got back into RC the Futaba systems were in turmoil and the FASST system was not out yet, I opted for Spektrum. Actually no, as I recall now I was given my first Spektrum because I was still flying on 72 and DSM2 was working the best at that time.

Yet here I am, I have indeed sent my radio and receiver with all the antennas intact, back to Horizon service center. Of course not particularly happy about that, but after range testing a worn path in the street in front of my house and again at the flying field, I/we ("we" being all the equally illiterate friends I have at the field) could not identify an installation problem. We even bound to two other transmitters and got mixed results from that experiment. I flew another of my planes with the same radio that I was using on the P51 and got less than a cumulative 10 fades from all the antennas combined in a 10 to 12 minute flight

Sending it back for testing may identify a problem in one or the other pieces ( I can only hope :p ) but it is the only recourse left that would be a reason to fault myself should I experience another loss of control and I had not done this.

My final thought......Being equal in engineering and design does not automatically include quality in materials and software. If I continue to have "events" for no discernible reason something will have to change.

hipik634 07-18-2016 10:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
lets change the subject - central joint on wing servo. I know about the ends, that have to be soldered. then it has to go to nylon clevis with ball joint, but i can't figure how shall i screw it then into the clevis. what's the correct procedure?
if i put it together on start and start heating the metal, nylon will melt

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2173523

acdii 07-19-2016 05:06 AM

The one thing I don't like about JR/Spektrum is the time it takes to connect. The Futaba is almost instant, when I turn the RX on, by the time I get a thumb on a stick, its in sync, the JR/Spektrums take two or three seconds to sync, and if you lose connection, that is two or three seconds you don't have.

FlyerInOKC 07-19-2016 05:55 AM


Originally Posted by acdii (Post 12236384)
The one thing I don't like about JR/Spektrum is the time it takes to connect. The Futaba is almost instant, when I turn the RX on, by the time I get a thumb on a stick, its in sync, the JR/Spektrums take two or three seconds to sync, and if you lose connection, that is two or three seconds you don't have.

The newer JR higher systems no longer use Spektrum they use their own propriety system. Only the inexpensive JR radios still use the Spektrum system. The main thing to consider it is a personal choice you use what works. Some fields are more prone to interference than others. I still miss my old Heathkit and Kraft radios but they were never in the same league as the newer Futaba, JR, or Spektrum!

BigTeeEldorado 07-19-2016 06:35 AM


Originally Posted by hipik634 (Post 12236330)
lets change the subject - central joint on wing servo. I know about the ends, that have to be soldered. then it has to go to nylon clevis with ball joint, but i can't figure how shall i screw it then into the clevis. what's the correct procedure?
if i put it together on start and start heating the metal, nylon will melt

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2173523

Good luck with that but if I understand what you have to do, stop heating as soon as the solder flows. Nylon will take a lot of heat before it melts. Otherwise engineer your own attach system. That's what I usually end up doing when I don't like the instructions. ;)

acdii 07-19-2016 07:12 AM


Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC (Post 12236398)
The newer JR higher systems no longer use Spektrum they use their own propriety system. Only the inexpensive JR radios still use the Spektrum system. The main thing to consider it is a personal choice you use what works. Some fields are more prone to interference than others. I still miss my old Heathkit and Kraft radios but they were never in the same league as the newer Futaba, JR, or Spektrum!

Key word there, NEWER. I wouldn't call my 12X inexpensive. It is a $1500 radio. Really nice, comfortable in the hands, plenty of adjustments, especially being able to tie the flaps in with throttle and control the speed of deployment that the Futaba just doesn't have, but after having so many odd issues with using it, all my new planes have been setup with the Futaba. My Mustang originally was on the JR, but after rebuilding it I decided to put a Futaba rx in it. My only complaint about the 14 is that the throttle stick goes up higher than the 8fgs and 12x which puts it in an unusual spot to fly from. I should probably spend some time adjusting the stick to see if I can make it more comfortable at WOT.

Now if I could change the module in the 12X to use the new RX, I would give it a try since I do like flying with the 12X.

hipik634 07-31-2016 11:25 AM

5 Attachment(s)
So i am pretty much ready for maiden. i got stuck on fabricating springs and gear legs. I had to make trailing links and springs from scratch. It doesnt look exactly pretty but it will work.
I also made a glow driver from an old servo and one tranzistor so i won't be having trouble accesing that inverted 90 ASP there.
i postponed the cocpit after maiden, as i am not sure how it will flight because all that harakiri I had to make with the ribs and so on.
I had to remove the aileron link from the tail wheel because it was the only one i could get and a have been able to redesign the tail linkage easier than the aileron one.
I also had minor issues with templates for the crosses, so it will be tuned up after maiden ...
for now

so here is the servo check https://youtu.be/y_pkF403CAc and some pics http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2175214http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2175215http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2175216http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2175217http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2175218

BigTeeEldorado 08-01-2016 07:49 AM


Originally Posted by hipik634 (Post 12241207)
So i am pretty much ready for maiden.

Love to hear your first impressions after the maiden.

FlyerInOKC 08-01-2016 08:27 AM

For a Remote Glow Plug connection I am pretty much spoiled by these.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/product/...dapter-han3025

I also like using a Kwik-Fill Refueling Valve with a SIG Aluminum Fueler mounting bracket. I recommend keeping them all the same brand so you only need one fuel probe (adapter). Both DuBro and Great Planes make the valves in Gas or Glow depending on your fuel of choice, the two fuel require different seal material.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXD745&P=ML

hipik634 08-01-2016 09:38 AM

4 Attachment(s)
https://youtu.be/zlqc7IrvWOo So engine trial went quite good, but the glow driver didn't work as expected, so i have to redo that. Some connection issues on transistor wired with spare micro servo.

some screws came loose, but thats easy to fix

i also made some improvements to external look markings and cockpit.
note the printed cockpit :) just printed a picture and glued it in, looks better than anticipated ...
the paint on nose didn't quite survived contact with the starter ...

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2175418http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2175419http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2175421

acdii 08-01-2016 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC (Post 12241508)
For a Remote Glow Plug connection I am pretty much spoiled by these.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/product/...dapter-han3025

I also like using a Kwik-Fill Refueling Valve with a SIG Aluminum Fueler mounting bracket. I recommend keeping them all the same brand so you only need one fuel probe (adapter). Both DuBro and Great Planes make the valves in Gas or Glow depending on your fuel of choice, the two fuel require different seal material.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXD745&P=ML

Same here. The Cub came with the bracket so I bought the Dubro one, liked it so much I bought a few more for other planes.

FlyerInOKC 08-01-2016 12:40 PM

I have one on my Top Flite 182 and used the SIG bracket. When I ordered the bracket for the Cessna I ordered two extras and plan on using them on future products. The DR.1 won't get one the cowling is open enough to reach the pressure fitting but when you have an enclosed cowling like a lot of scale birds its worth having like the remote glow plug connection.


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