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Concept .30 Grounded!

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Old 08-12-2002, 03:50 PM
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C_Watkins
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

No... the newbie hasn't crashed it yet. I'll post in crash pics/discussion when I do

Anyhow...
I'm out at the field, and coming in from a reward flight I allowed myself,
after successfully hovering a full tankful out, within a small circle
I had only made two passes, with a couple of stall turns at the ends, but
the heli just isn't *feeling* right at all. It's suddenly very sluggish in fore/aft control.

I bring it back, stop into a nose-in hover, at about 6 feet high, and I start to descend.
Just as I ease the stick back down, I hear WHOOOOOOOOOMPP! WHOooomf!
The awfulest sounding flutter I'ver ever heard from an aircraft of any type.
It leaned backwards hard, and it took almost full forward cyclic to get it back level
and coming towards me, then nearly full back cyclic to stop it from hitting me.
(Another 1/2 second, and I was ready to dump pitch and let it crash. That close.)
I was able to set it down gently, after catching it level for a couple seconds.

The left picture is what I found after the blades stopped turning.
I popped the links back on (right pic), and hovered it up a foot or two and landed.
All seemed "OK", but I'm scared to fly it again now.

Should these links pop on and off with a flick of a fingernail?
The flybar one is *that* loose. The other one is a bit tighter, but not much.
Is it possible I did something in the air to cause this, or are they just worn out?
In any case... I consider myself lucky- and Grounded
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Old 08-12-2002, 05:22 PM
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Notarheli
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

The links should not pop off with a flick of the fingernail. One thing that would help is to go to the meatal ball swashplate. Aside from that, you can replace the two "A" links. As for the swash, you can buy balls and modify what you have. Personally, I'd replace the swashplate.

Barry
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Old 08-12-2002, 07:23 PM
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C_Watkins
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Default Concept-compatible?

So... do you know of any Concept 30 compatible metal swashplates?
If nothing from a more modern bird will fit, I guess I'll just modify the plastic one.

I'm assuming this is just a matter of shaving off the old plastic balls, smoothing,
drilling/tapping and going in with metal balls and new links. Is this correct?
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Old 08-12-2002, 08:20 PM
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

Make sure the word Kyosho that is stamped on the links is facing out. They make a big deal about that in the manual. Also, I have a metal swash assembly I will sell you for $25. Let me know. Congratulations on getting it down in one piece with that link popped off like that. I'm suprised nothing else came apart with that thing flopping around loose like that.
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Old 08-12-2002, 08:21 PM
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Steve Campbell2
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

The Empire sells a Kyosho jig with drill bit specifically for replacing plastic balls with metal ones. You need a razor saw, too, but it's no big deal to do.

And I would replace those A-arms as well. New balls aren't going to improve things that much if the links are that loose.

Steve
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Old 08-12-2002, 09:30 PM
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Notarheli
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

I agree with all. Yes, what you said is correct except you don't really need to tap the holes for the steel ball screws. Since it's plastic, you can drill the hole slightly undersized then put a touch of slow CA on the screw and screw it in. Swashplates are still readily available, even Tower Hobbies has them. There is an all metal swashplate for around $90, but I never found any benefit of using it. The other swashplate I think is around $40. Changing the A arms is a good thing to do, especially since you have it down that far to change the swashplate. Steve is the Concept Guru...I've read all his stuff, but I Never was into replacing those dang plastic balls. I just bought the new part.

Barry
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Old 08-12-2002, 09:49 PM
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Default Metal Swashplate...

PHI, if this is the Kyosho item, and not a conversion, I'll take it at that price.
Will send PM for details and info exchange.

Yes, I was shocked when I saw TWO links off, and I do feel very fortunate.
Once again, all thanks to lady luck, wiffle balls, and FMS
If I'd never flown the sim, I'd probably have a basket full of plastic right now.
This was my third session with the "real deal", and it was a *handful* at the end.


Steve Campbell2, thanks for the tip, and good point about the links themselves.
I won't be flying again until all have been replaced.

I think the elevator A-link got knocked off by the other link flailing around, because
it's quite tight... but I won't take the chance, while parts are still available
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Old 08-12-2002, 10:22 PM
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

Congrats on the succesful landing! How long have you been flying?
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Old 08-12-2002, 11:01 PM
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Default Thanks!

Time flies... If you count the "attempt" in my front yard, it's been 5 days, or 4 short sessions.
(My front yard is on a slant, and small. It wasn't much fun)

I've been to our club's field three times, including this morning, and have burned
about a half gallon of fuel so far. I'm far from a good pilot, but a decent beginner.
I find that flying planes for a long time, and flying FMS a lot, seems to
have given me a real knack for twitching the sticks the right way in a crisis


Still doesn't mean I won't stuff it, on my very next trip out.
I make plenty mistakes... it's just that so far, I've been lucky
enough to recover, and squeak out a non-fatal landing each time

I figure the odds will catch up to me any day now.
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Old 08-15-2002, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: Concept-compatible?

Originally posted by C_Watkins
So... do you know of any Concept 30 compatible metal swashplates?
If nothing from a more modern bird will fit, I guess I'll just modify the plastic one.

I'm assuming this is just a matter of shaving off the old plastic balls, smoothing,
drilling/tapping and going in with metal balls and new links. Is this correct?
Kyosho does make full metal and half-metal swashplate upgrades for Concept 30, 46VR and Nexus 30S.... But they are expensive :-( Have a look at www.towerhobbies.com :

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXW312&P=7
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Old 08-15-2002, 08:17 AM
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Default Re: Re: Concept-compatible?

Originally posted by PieterMX


Kyosho does make full metal and half-metal swashplate upgrades for Concept 30, 46VR and Nexus 30S.... But they are expensive :-( Have a look at www.towerhobbies.com :

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXW312&P=7

I saw those after I started this thread... which is why I'll be sending a check PHI flyer's way, come Friday

I'll save the more costly upgrades for the next bird... if I'm not totally
bummed out whenever I kill this one. I'm hoping to keep the Concept airworthy,
at least until I'm comfortable flying without training gear. (A few months, I'm guessing... at least.)
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Old 08-15-2002, 10:28 AM
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

Ok. When I removed the training gear the first time it feeled like having a new helicopter. So much better, more stable flying! If you can land ok (hover stable and land it slowly down) every time just remove the training gear. But, only if you're sure of course...

I've flown a Kyosho Nexus 30S, Kyosho Concept 46VR and now a Raptor 50. I'm so happy there are many good-priced parts for the Raptor. Thats the main reason I bought it. Also very nice upgrades (a lot third party!) advailable. I think Kyosho is making a small come-back with the Caliber 30, however, they don't beat the Raptor.
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Old 08-15-2002, 11:08 AM
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

Originally posted by PieterMX
Ok. When I removed the training gear the first time it feeled like having a new helicopter. So much better, more stable flying! If you can land ok (hover stable and land it slowly down) every time just remove the training gear. But, only if you're sure of course...
Yeah, I keep hearing they fly better without the wiffle balls...
but I'm definitely still skittering around too much to
try it without them, at this stage in my learning.
I actually do pretty well coming in from a flight, but if I
take more than a few seconds going through the 1 to 2 foot
range, I start letting it move around too much.
I figure I'm 2 or 3 gallons away, yet. All in good time!
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Old 08-15-2002, 01:09 PM
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

<>

There you go. I think you're taking the correct mental attitude toward this endeavor. Too many new guys want to jump right in with the latest, greatest, "whatever Todd & Jason have, man" set-up. Puh-lease...

The Concept was designed to teach you to fly helicopters as painlessly as possible; and IMO it does that better than any other entry-level machine then or now, when ALL parameters are considered. Dropping it was a collossal marketing blunder on Kyosho's part. By the time they finally realized that fact, it was too late to recover the market share they had lost.

The thing about plastic machines is that they can be incredibly loose and sloppy and still fly just fine. Most upgrades are simply not needed while one is still a fledgling. But the metal balls are one "upgrade" that is worth the effort. The plastic balls wear pretty quickly, and when things begin popping loose you don't really know if it is the ball or the link.

With metal balls, you know it is the link.

Steve
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Old 08-15-2002, 02:13 PM
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

For C-Watkins .......

Concept 30 parts in my garage for two years. Now flying a
shuttle zt-s and LMH110. Parts are yours for the price of
shipping. email - acr1346@juno.com


http://www.rcuniverse.com/gallery/sh...php?photo=2297
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Old 08-15-2002, 02:29 PM
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

C-W,
WOW---you can't pass up ACR's deal.

Barry
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Old 08-15-2002, 07:22 PM
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Default Wow!

You got that right, Notarheli

acr1346, thanks a lot!
I'm sure I'll be wasting some or all of these parts as I progress
You've got mail!


Chris
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Old 08-15-2002, 10:24 PM
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Default Concept .30 Grounded!

You've got parts.

UPS $6.90 Monday or Tuesday.

Address inside on the Newsletter I edit for
S.P.A.R.K.S. visit - http://web.tampabay.rr.com/sparksrc
(Sorry for the commercial)
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Old 08-16-2002, 01:27 AM
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Default Very impressed

Originally posted by acr1346
For C-Watkins .......

... Parts are yours for the price of
shipping. ...
Wow, now that is what RC is all about. Way to go Acr1346
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