Concept .30 Grounded!
08-12-2002, 03:50 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Douglasville,
GA
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concept .30 Grounded!
No... the newbie hasn't crashed it yet. I'll post in crash pics/discussion when I do 
Anyhow...
I'm out at the field, and coming in from a reward flight I allowed myself,
after successfully hovering a full tankful out, within a small circle
I had only made two passes, with a couple of stall turns at the ends, but
the heli just isn't *feeling* right at all. It's suddenly very sluggish in fore/aft control.
I bring it back, stop into a nose-in hover, at about 6 feet high, and I start to descend.
Just as I ease the stick back down, I hear WHOOOOOOOOOMPP! WHOooomf!
The awfulest sounding flutter I'ver ever heard from an aircraft of any type.
It leaned backwards hard, and it took almost full forward cyclic to get it back level
and coming towards me, then nearly full back cyclic to stop it from hitting me.
(Another 1/2 second, and I was ready to dump pitch and let it crash. That close.)
I was able to set it down gently, after catching it level for a couple seconds.
The left picture is what I found after the blades stopped turning.
I popped the links back on (right pic), and hovered it up a foot or two and landed.
All seemed "OK", but I'm scared to fly it again now.
Should these links pop on and off with a flick of a fingernail?
The flybar one is *that* loose. The other one is a bit tighter, but not much.
Is it possible I did something in the air to cause this, or are they just worn out?
In any case... I consider myself lucky- and Grounded
Anyhow...
I'm out at the field, and coming in from a reward flight I allowed myself,
after successfully hovering a full tankful out, within a small circle
I had only made two passes, with a couple of stall turns at the ends, but
the heli just isn't *feeling* right at all. It's suddenly very sluggish in fore/aft control.
I bring it back, stop into a nose-in hover, at about 6 feet high, and I start to descend.
Just as I ease the stick back down, I hear WHOOOOOOOOOMPP! WHOooomf!
The awfulest sounding flutter I'ver ever heard from an aircraft of any type.
It leaned backwards hard, and it took almost full forward cyclic to get it back level
and coming towards me, then nearly full back cyclic to stop it from hitting me.
(Another 1/2 second, and I was ready to dump pitch and let it crash. That close.)
I was able to set it down gently, after catching it level for a couple seconds.
The left picture is what I found after the blades stopped turning.
I popped the links back on (right pic), and hovered it up a foot or two and landed.
All seemed "OK", but I'm scared to fly it again now.
Should these links pop on and off with a flick of a fingernail?
The flybar one is *that* loose. The other one is a bit tighter, but not much.
Is it possible I did something in the air to cause this, or are they just worn out?
In any case... I consider myself lucky- and Grounded
08-12-2002, 05:22 PM
#2
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concept .30 Grounded!
The links should not pop off with a flick of the fingernail. One thing that would help is to go to the meatal ball swashplate. Aside from that, you can replace the two "A" links. As for the swash, you can buy balls and modify what you have. Personally, I'd replace the swashplate.
Barry
Barry
08-12-2002, 07:23 PM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Douglasville,
GA
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concept-compatible?
So... do you know of any Concept 30 compatible metal swashplates?
If nothing from a more modern bird will fit, I guess I'll just modify the plastic one.
I'm assuming this is just a matter of shaving off the old plastic balls, smoothing,
drilling/tapping and going in with metal balls and new links. Is this correct?
If nothing from a more modern bird will fit, I guess I'll just modify the plastic one.
I'm assuming this is just a matter of shaving off the old plastic balls, smoothing,
drilling/tapping and going in with metal balls and new links. Is this correct?
08-12-2002, 08:20 PM
#4
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bowie, Maryland
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concept .30 Grounded!
Make sure the word Kyosho that is stamped on the links is facing out. They make a big deal about that in the manual. Also, I have a metal swash assembly I will sell you for $25. Let me know. Congratulations on getting it down in one piece with that link popped off like that. I'm suprised nothing else came apart with that thing flopping around loose like that.
08-12-2002, 08:21 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concept .30 Grounded!
The Empire sells a Kyosho jig with drill bit specifically for replacing plastic balls with metal ones. You need a razor saw, too, but it's no big deal to do.
And I would replace those A-arms as well. New balls aren't going to improve things that much if the links are that loose.
Steve
And I would replace those A-arms as well. New balls aren't going to improve things that much if the links are that loose.
Steve
08-12-2002, 09:30 PM
#6
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concept .30 Grounded!
I agree with all. Yes, what you said is correct except you don't really need to tap the holes for the steel ball screws. Since it's plastic, you can drill the hole slightly undersized then put a touch of slow CA on the screw and screw it in. Swashplates are still readily available, even Tower Hobbies has them. There is an all metal swashplate for around $90, but I never found any benefit of using it. The other swashplate I think is around $40. Changing the A arms is a good thing to do, especially since you have it down that far to change the swashplate. Steve is the Concept Guru...I've read all his stuff, but I Never was into replacing those dang plastic balls. I just bought the new part.
Barry
Barry
08-12-2002, 09:49 PM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Douglasville,
GA
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Metal Swashplate...
PHI, if this is the Kyosho item, and not a conversion, I'll take it at that price.
Will send PM for details and info exchange.
Yes, I was shocked when I saw TWO links off, and I do feel very fortunate.
Once again, all thanks to lady luck, wiffle balls, and FMS
If I'd never flown the sim, I'd probably have a basket full of plastic right now.
This was my third session with the "real deal", and it was a *handful* at the end.
Steve Campbell2, thanks for the tip, and good point about the links themselves.
I won't be flying again until all have been replaced.
I think the elevator A-link got knocked off by the other link flailing around, because
it's quite tight... but I won't take the chance, while parts are still available
Will send PM for details and info exchange.
Yes, I was shocked when I saw TWO links off, and I do feel very fortunate.
Once again, all thanks to lady luck, wiffle balls, and FMS
If I'd never flown the sim, I'd probably have a basket full of plastic right now.
This was my third session with the "real deal", and it was a *handful* at the end.
Steve Campbell2, thanks for the tip, and good point about the links themselves.
I won't be flying again until all have been replaced.
I think the elevator A-link got knocked off by the other link flailing around, because
it's quite tight... but I won't take the chance, while parts are still available
08-12-2002, 11:01 PM
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Douglasville,
GA
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks!
Time flies... If you count the "attempt" in my front yard, it's been 5 days, or 4 short sessions.
(My front yard is on a slant, and small. It wasn't much fun)
I've been to our club's field three times, including this morning, and have burned
about a half gallon of fuel so far. I'm far from a good pilot, but a decent beginner.
I find that flying planes for a long time, and flying FMS a lot, seems to
have given me a real knack for twitching the sticks the right way in a crisis
Still doesn't mean I won't stuff it, on my very next trip out.
I make plenty mistakes... it's just that so far, I've been lucky
enough to recover, and squeak out a non-fatal landing each time
I figure the odds will catch up to me any day now.
(My front yard is on a slant, and small. It wasn't much fun)
I've been to our club's field three times, including this morning, and have burned
about a half gallon of fuel so far. I'm far from a good pilot, but a decent beginner.
I find that flying planes for a long time, and flying FMS a lot, seems to
have given me a real knack for twitching the sticks the right way in a crisis
Still doesn't mean I won't stuff it, on my very next trip out.
I make plenty mistakes... it's just that so far, I've been lucky
enough to recover, and squeak out a non-fatal landing each time
I figure the odds will catch up to me any day now.
08-15-2002, 07:46 AM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: AL
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Concept-compatible?
Originally posted by C_Watkins
So... do you know of any Concept 30 compatible metal swashplates?
If nothing from a more modern bird will fit, I guess I'll just modify the plastic one.
I'm assuming this is just a matter of shaving off the old plastic balls, smoothing,
drilling/tapping and going in with metal balls and new links. Is this correct?
So... do you know of any Concept 30 compatible metal swashplates?
If nothing from a more modern bird will fit, I guess I'll just modify the plastic one.
I'm assuming this is just a matter of shaving off the old plastic balls, smoothing,
drilling/tapping and going in with metal balls and new links. Is this correct?
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXW312&P=7
08-15-2002, 08:17 AM
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Douglasville,
GA
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: Concept-compatible?
Originally posted by PieterMX
Kyosho does make full metal and half-metal swashplate upgrades for Concept 30, 46VR and Nexus 30S.... But they are expensive :-( Have a look at www.towerhobbies.com :
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXW312&P=7
Kyosho does make full metal and half-metal swashplate upgrades for Concept 30, 46VR and Nexus 30S.... But they are expensive :-( Have a look at www.towerhobbies.com :
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXW312&P=7
I saw those after I started this thread... which is why I'll be sending a check PHI flyer's way, come Friday
I'll save the more costly upgrades for the next bird... if I'm not totally
bummed out whenever I kill this one. I'm hoping to keep the Concept airworthy,
at least until I'm comfortable flying without training gear. (A few months, I'm guessing... at least.)
08-15-2002, 10:28 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: AL
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concept .30 Grounded!
Ok. When I removed the training gear the first time it feeled like having a new helicopter. So much better, more stable flying! If you can land ok (hover stable and land it slowly down) every time just remove the training gear. But, only if you're sure of course...
I've flown a Kyosho Nexus 30S, Kyosho Concept 46VR and now a Raptor 50. I'm so happy there are many good-priced parts for the Raptor. Thats the main reason I bought it. Also very nice upgrades (a lot third party!) advailable. I think Kyosho is making a small come-back with the Caliber 30, however, they don't beat the Raptor.
I've flown a Kyosho Nexus 30S, Kyosho Concept 46VR and now a Raptor 50. I'm so happy there are many good-priced parts for the Raptor. Thats the main reason I bought it. Also very nice upgrades (a lot third party!) advailable. I think Kyosho is making a small come-back with the Caliber 30, however, they don't beat the Raptor.
08-15-2002, 11:08 AM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Douglasville,
GA
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concept .30 Grounded!
Originally posted by PieterMX
Ok. When I removed the training gear the first time it feeled like having a new helicopter. So much better, more stable flying! If you can land ok (hover stable and land it slowly down) every time just remove the training gear. But, only if you're sure of course...
Ok. When I removed the training gear the first time it feeled like having a new helicopter. So much better, more stable flying! If you can land ok (hover stable and land it slowly down) every time just remove the training gear. But, only if you're sure of course...
but I'm definitely still skittering around too much to
try it without them, at this stage in my learning.
I actually do pretty well coming in from a flight, but if I
take more than a few seconds going through the 1 to 2 foot
range, I start letting it move around too much.
I figure I'm 2 or 3 gallons away, yet. All in good time!
08-15-2002, 01:09 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concept .30 Grounded!
>
There you go. I think you're taking the correct mental attitude toward this endeavor. Too many new guys want to jump right in with the latest, greatest, "whatever Todd & Jason have, man" set-up. Puh-lease...
The Concept was designed to teach you to fly helicopters as painlessly as possible; and IMO it does that better than any other entry-level machine then or now, when ALL parameters are considered. Dropping it was a collossal marketing blunder on Kyosho's part. By the time they finally realized that fact, it was too late to recover the market share they had lost.
The thing about plastic machines is that they can be incredibly loose and sloppy and still fly just fine. Most upgrades are simply not needed while one is still a fledgling. But the metal balls are one "upgrade" that is worth the effort. The plastic balls wear pretty quickly, and when things begin popping loose you don't really know if it is the ball or the link.
With metal balls, you know it is the link.
Steve
There you go. I think you're taking the correct mental attitude toward this endeavor. Too many new guys want to jump right in with the latest, greatest, "whatever Todd & Jason have, man" set-up. Puh-lease...
The Concept was designed to teach you to fly helicopters as painlessly as possible; and IMO it does that better than any other entry-level machine then or now, when ALL parameters are considered. Dropping it was a collossal marketing blunder on Kyosho's part. By the time they finally realized that fact, it was too late to recover the market share they had lost.
The thing about plastic machines is that they can be incredibly loose and sloppy and still fly just fine. Most upgrades are simply not needed while one is still a fledgling. But the metal balls are one "upgrade" that is worth the effort. The plastic balls wear pretty quickly, and when things begin popping loose you don't really know if it is the ball or the link.
With metal balls, you know it is the link.
Steve
08-15-2002, 02:13 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: St. Petersburg,
FL
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concept .30 Grounded!
For C-Watkins .......
Concept 30 parts in my garage for two years. Now flying a
shuttle zt-s and LMH110. Parts are yours for the price of
shipping. email - [email protected]
http://www.rcuniverse.com/gallery/sh...php?photo=2297
Concept 30 parts in my garage for two years. Now flying a
shuttle zt-s and LMH110. Parts are yours for the price of
shipping. email - [email protected]
http://www.rcuniverse.com/gallery/sh...php?photo=2297
08-15-2002, 07:22 PM
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Douglasville,
GA
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow!
You got that right, Notarheli
acr1346, thanks a lot!
I'm sure I'll be wasting some or all of these parts as I progress
You've got mail!
Chris
acr1346, thanks a lot!
I'm sure I'll be wasting some or all of these parts as I progress
You've got mail!
Chris
08-15-2002, 10:24 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: St. Petersburg,
FL
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Concept .30 Grounded!
You've got parts.
UPS $6.90 Monday or Tuesday.
Address inside on the Newsletter I edit for
S.P.A.R.K.S. visit - http://web.tampabay.rr.com/sparksrc
(Sorry for the commercial)
UPS $6.90 Monday or Tuesday.
Address inside on the Newsletter I edit for
S.P.A.R.K.S. visit - http://web.tampabay.rr.com/sparksrc
(Sorry for the commercial)
08-16-2002, 01:27 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Leduc,
AB, CANADA
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very impressed
Originally posted by acr1346
For C-Watkins .......
... Parts are yours for the price of
shipping. ...
For C-Watkins .......
... Parts are yours for the price of
shipping. ...
