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-   -   V7 - It Works (worked!) (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/lmh-helicopter-216/2264241-v7-works-worked.html)

T.W. 10-18-2004 10:17 AM

V7 - It Works (worked!)
After a long lay-off, brought-about by total frustration with the new V-7 I'd bought, I decided to have another go with my newly re-built LMH. It has the V-7 fitted, a larger tank than original, and a home-made boom - and I had removed all the free-play in the controls, caused by wear and tear, since I last flew it

The engine started ok for once and I only had to adjust the needle a couple of times to get it just right. The heli was way out of trim (of course). So the first flight consisted of hop, adjust trim, hop, re-adjust trim, etc. During flight two I realised I couldn't get all the trim I needed on the rudder - and the gyro wasn't effective enough either. So I landed, removed the body, and made the adjustments, replacing the body afterwards

During flight three the trim was much better, but I decided the heli was way too reactive, so I landed and adjusted the Tx rates. Finally, flight four:

Seemed good! The V-7 was running really well (for the first time ever) so I did some cautious hovering. Then I flew a few small circuits and some 8's. I even did a little nose-in too, this was finally looking good. All of the flying had been done at around 4 to 8ft height, so's not to worry the neighbours, and I was starting to enjoy myself and regain some confidence in the little heli . . . . and then it happened

The engine and rotor stopped (almost) dead. Just as it stopped there was a screech (main gear teeth gone - maybe), and of course the heli sank to the ground (but quick). No damage was done to the heli when it "landed," as it was in a low hover when things went wrong

This is so typical of my experience and my frustration with the LMH. It always seems as though I have to work really hard to get this thing flying, and then it always comes to a sudden stop (apart from a brief period when it flew surprisingly well a couple of years ago)

Does anyone want to hazard a guess as to what's "let-go" this time - before I start taking the thing to pieces to find out?

KLRico 10-18-2004 03:36 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Most likely the con-rod. Does the crankshaft have some freeplay and 'clink'? If so, thats's what happened without a doubt.

T.W. 10-18-2004 04:34 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Hi Rico. I haven't started to investigate yet, so I don't have much additional info - except that I don't think there was a "clink" when the engine seized. And I couldn't turn it over by hand afterwards . . . . in fact when I think about it the rotors wouldn'r turn either, so that might signal a different problem - maybe the clutch has "gone" as well as something else. What do you think?

fiat 10-18-2004 07:27 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Well Tony as you and others who have read my posts, know ,that I have had my share of the V-7 woes. My bet, if we are placing them, is that your conrod broke and the clutch bell siezed on it's shaft. Tell me if I win Alan

flyinrog 10-18-2004 08:51 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Well I hope I have better luck than that!!,,in all the time (years) I've had mine I have never actually flown it...back when I thougt I/it was about ready to fly, there was either A.not enough power or B. it wasnt set up right to begin with..either way I had the .074 to put in it, so now I'm in the same boat as when I started...hopefully it is ready now, but if my engine locks up its headed for ebay..and I'll stck with planes....Rog

T.W. 10-19-2004 05:58 AM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
This morning I removed the main gear, which seems to have survived without any damage at all, But the clutch was well-seized on the shaft - so I guess that's where the "screech" came from. I also removed some very fine black plastic "thread" - shavings from the inside of the clutch bell which I guess were caused when it seized

Alan, you said the clutch would be seized . . . . so you win - so far!

I noticed that the clutch innards were "very dry," whereas when running the V-6 it was always kept soaking wet by the exhaust. Maybe we need to lubricate the clutch when using the V-7. What do you think?

Next I tried turning-over the engine using the shaft and clutch "innards," but it was solid. I removed the cylinder head and lo-and-behold the engine turns-over as sweet as you'd like! No broken con-rod here Alan!

I'm quite puzzled. What happened? It looks as though I can go fly again now I've freed-up and lubed the clutch. But what's the chance of the same thing happening again - at height! - and what the heck could have caused the "sudden stop" in the first place. Is it possible that something "moved" inside the engine to cause it to stop (I'm wondering about the gudgeon-pin here - maybe). And would that seize the clutch (and if so why?)

Sorry about all the questions, but I'm really curious to understand what happened

Rog: Go flying. You'll love it (providing your engine works ok - if not you'll hate all the fiddling and faffing!) Good luck

fiat 10-19-2004 05:58 AM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
If flying a heli is something you want to do then try an inexpensive 30 size like the hawk or the caliper. I have 11 gallons of fuel in my hawk now and I love it. I hear that my wife has gotten me a raptor 50 for x-mas so I am like a little kid and I can't wait. Alan

T.W. 10-19-2004 06:24 AM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Roll-on Christmas then ;)

I have a Caliber. It's been all ready "to go" since before last Christmas! But I somehow seem to like either flying my planx or the LMH. Mind you, the LMH is rapidly falling from my list of things to fly at the moment so maybe the Caliber will finally get an outing - maybe

fiat 10-19-2004 06:37 AM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Tony the clutch bell siezing on the shaft happend with my v-6 also, you need to oil it even though it does get some lube from the motor. I will bet that the wrist pin has moved and did catch on the cylinder. before flying it again I would pull off the back plate just to check, or if you don't mind it happening again fly and see what happens. LMH folks had told me that the pin moves and catches the cylinder which in fact snaps the conrod. This is waht happend to my 4 or 5 that I had "not sure now how many". The LMH is a great little heli to learn to fly on and you get a lot of engine tunning experience as well. The LMH is what got me to where I am now however if I had started right into a 30 size with some help I would be some what farther a head by now. Alan

darthdrk 10-19-2004 11:05 AM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
I slight burr on the mainshaft can cause this also you can have one side of the clutch shoe spreading more than the other and it just so happen to grab the clutch bell wall.Keep the mainshaft lubed where the clutch bell spins around the shaft. I dont think I would jump and put a lube on the inside of the clutch bell walls. I had a clutch sling one side of the shoes once before. Also Inspecting another i found a hair line crack where the shoes spread. You could have just a bad shoe but if you replace it, you may as well get a new clutch bell also especially if it has been grooved from the seize.

T.W. 10-19-2004 11:36 AM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Thanks for this Alan. So we need to lube the clutch then! I never thought about doing this before. But I've now put some light oil in my LMH flight box and will make sure the clutch doesn't seize for lack of lube in future

You said: "if you don't mind it happening again fly and see what happens" . . . so I did (it was easier than removing the engine in order to take a look inside!)

The engine fired-up just fine and the heli lifted-off ok to (nice that it was trimmed-out and more predictable this time). I hovered for a couple of minutes, and then the engine stopped

I thought the engine seemed a little too warm for comfort, so I'm guessing that I ran it too lean. But at least the clutch is still free and no damage was done to the heli (I'm hovering low until this problem is solved)

Second flight with needle set a little richer: Not quite enough power. I don't need the heli to get real high at this time, but it really needs to have sufficient power to arrest its own descent, which it doesn't

Third flight, with needle halfway between the two previous settings: Heli lifts-off ok. Engine stops a couple of minutes into the flight. Heli and engine still seem ok on examination - but engine still feels a bit too warm

I've got four washers in there at the moment. What do you suggest? Remove one washer - or two? Try higher nitro fuel (I'm currently using 22% nitro) - I've got some 30% I could try tomorrow

T.W. 10-19-2004 03:13 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Hi Darth. Thanks for your comments. I'd already lubed the main shaft "and" the clutch shoes before seeing your post - and the clutch worked just fine. I was wondering if it would slip and therefore not provide enough grip to get the blades up to speed, but it was fine so I haven't ruined anything (yet!)

Tomorrow (weather permitting) I will remove one of the washers and also try my 30% fuel

jzinckgra 10-19-2004 08:05 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
This is ridiculous.[:@] I have an LMH 110 with the older 0.069 engine. I was thinking of "upgrading" to the 0.074, but after reading the posts here over the last year or so and hearing about so many 0.074's breaking after a few runs, I think LMH should get off their butts and do something. They obviously know of the problem with the engine, so why don't they try changing suppliers, go with another manufacturer,etc? It's great and all they will replace the engine, but this is just a band-aid and does nothing to solve the real problem. Maybe LMH is more focused on their electrics now. I know there are many more competitors out there who are selling entry level mini-helis with either gas or electric. Doesn't seem like LMH cares about its customers. Do you hear me LMH!!!! Huh, do you? Fix the damn problem!!!![:@]
ok, i'm done venting now.:)

fiat 10-19-2004 08:53 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
This is one reason I went to a 30 size heli. A hawk or caliber costs about the same as the dreaded LMH however you do need a computer radio to fly them. But most people get the LMH to laern on so why go thru the cost and agravation with the LMH ?? Just go with a 30 size instead. Also the hawk or caliber cost the same as the LMH to repair but then again crashes are very few and always pilot error with the bigger heli's. When I would crash my LMH maybe just a handful were my fault and they cost to repair. Most the crashes were due to engine failour I really am glad to have gotten RID of my LMH and only because of T.W. am I typing here again LOL. Just my 2 cents worth sorry die hard LMHr's Alan

darthdrk 10-19-2004 09:50 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Not only do you need a computer radio but also need a bigger space. The main reason I believe the LMH Heli is so popular is because of its size and more so its crashability. I like the fact I can step out in my backyard and fly around. I dont have the average size back yard either but you know what I mean. What I like about the Gas model is you gas and go, dont have to wait for batteries to charge. Litemachines site hasnt changed in about three years.It seems they are more inclined to cater to the electric heli. I dont know if they plan on finding another engine for the LMH for replacement. Litemachines been kinda quiet for a while. Have no idea what the future holds for the gas model.

T.W. 10-20-2004 06:01 AM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Thanks for your comments and advice guys. It's all appreciated

It's raining here today, so I won't be making any more progress right now. But what I have done is mix-up sone 25% fuel, ready to try when the weather improves. I also washed the needle valve out (again) and replaced the fuel pipe with some new stuff

Alan, I had to laugh at what you said about the LMH's engines: "you get a lot of engine tuning experience" - you certainly do that . . . . but I could really get-by without having to experience all the hassle!

I was just thinking that my LMH was just fine on its old V-6. It would fly just fine - except that I thought it was showing signs of age. It's only since trying to get this V-7 to work that I've been totally frustrated by my LMH. So if I really can't get this thing to work I'll re-fit the old engine. It seems a retrograde step, but it did at least run reliably

flyinrog 10-20-2004 04:47 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Well, obviously they cant just change engines, without changing out the whole crutch...and Norvel has a very good reputation with the 1/2a group, I have several myself on airplanes..I also dont have a wife or anybody thats gonna buy me a Hawk, so I gotta use what I have or make it work, the old adage, bigger flies better,but smaller flies more often, I guess holds up with heli's too...if it breaks,,either I try to convert to electric, or it goes on the shelf...So when was the last time one of the Arlton guys was on here?....Rog

fiat 10-20-2004 06:30 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
the old adage, bigger flies better,but smaller flies more often,, Rog I can't agree here when I had my LMH I didn't even use 2 gallons in 1 year and I fittled with it almost every night in my back yard. Now that I have my hawk I have used 11 gallons in 5 months and I use it as much as I did my LMH. Now I know the little heli is better on fuel "when it runs" but there is a big difference in flights here. The big thing here is that when I wanted to fly my LMH I had to try for 30 minutes or more just to get it to fly 1 tank thru. I loved the little heli but it did agravate me so. Alan

flyinrog 10-20-2004 07:19 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Thats just a saying we have over in 1/2a land Alan, didnt mean anything by it..I love throwin a small plane in my car and hit the field for an hour..those big planes take 1/2hour to get out of the vans and put together ....Rog

fiat 10-20-2004 08:16 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
You got that right rog, I used to fly nothing but planes and at one point I had a 1/4 scale cosair and I could only take 1 person with me when I would go fly because there was no room in the wagon. But heli's on the other hand I love them. At www.helifreaks.com they have some videos and it's great to watch. Alan

Mini Boy 10-20-2004 10:21 PM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)

I hear them there newfangled electric powered Coronas run real nice. Not very many Corona fliers are as frustrated as you poor guyz. No vibration, no noise, no aggravated neighbors, no goo ...... pretty nifty!

(Sorry, I just couldn't resist ;););))

Remember, it doesn't make any difference what makes it fly, as long as it flies. (But, it really SHOULD fly.)

Russ :)

T.W. 10-21-2004 03:36 AM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Electrics are ok for them-there whimps who're afraid to dirty their manicured fingernails. But real fliers eat meat pies and fly gas-power. I mean, how many electric-powered full-size planes and helis are there out there?

It's blowing a gale today so still no progress to report!

I was kiddling about the electrics btw - I fly some of 'em myself ;)

fiat 10-21-2004 06:15 AM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
One other reason I don't type here much is because the moderator likes to bleap out what some people type sorry rog for the **** that was not me if you are interested just e-mail and I will tell you what the sight is. Alan,, thanx moderator's. just friendly chat here

T.W. 10-21-2004 06:38 AM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
If we're taking bets here I'll put my money on helis Alan - do I win?

fiat 10-21-2004 06:53 AM

RE: V7 - It Works (worked!)
Yes Tony you win. LOL. Alan

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