heard of a superchager for you truck?
10-14-2006, 09:14 AM
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heard of a superchager for you truck?
rbinnovations.com sells superchargers for most models and i was wondering if anyone has one or knows someone who does. i want one but im not sure if its worth the money instal and mant. for 140bux
10-14-2006, 04:29 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
The reason that they do not work in a 2 stroke is because there is no exhaust valve. You lose the pressure that was built before it has a chance to fire (The intake and exhaust ports are open at the same time). The only benefit is that it gives you a completely fresh mixture on every stroke - this improves power, but just a little. You might see a 5% improvement, if you are able to keep it tuned.
Like the other guys said, look into a more powerful engine - it will be a much better way to spend $140.
Like the other guys said, look into a more powerful engine - it will be a much better way to spend $140.
10-14-2006, 04:37 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
Check out this thread concerning forced induction and nitor engines. People in this thread become quite heated , but this thread has alot of incormation about supercharging a nitro engine. After reading through and some mental deductions, I am leaning more towards those who say forced induction will not work on a nitro engine.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4615784/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4615784/tm.htm
10-14-2006, 07:30 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
there was a test done and it does work but i would rather buy a new engine with more power than spend 150.00 on a sc. also for racing in a strait line and limited displacement engine race they are prob ok but on a dusty track and lots of jumps that belt drive dosent look like it will hold up. personally i would rather spend that 150 on a new mach or an sts with 3 hp and still have more fun that i know what to do with.
10-14-2006, 07:56 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
In your link, there was another link with a diplay of why it won't work. See this: http://www.glypo.co.uk/hiw-supercharger.php
10-14-2006, 08:44 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
ORIGINAL: Nitronutt
In your link, there was another link with a diplay of why it won't work. See this: http://www.glypo.co.uk/hiw-supercharger.php
In your link, there was another link with a diplay of why it won't work. See this: http://www.glypo.co.uk/hiw-supercharger.php
the guy who wrote that has no understanding of how our engines work...he completely misses the point that out motors have a crank vavle, and the piston itself acts as a valve... You cannot blow thru these engines, induction happens on two stages not just one as the article insists,,,pretty article, zero understanding
10-14-2006, 08:55 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
Basically, the crankcase can be pressurized by the supercharger, but when the piston travels down, which forces the mixture into the combustion chamber and opens the intake ports, it also is forcing the exhaust out and there is overlap in port timing. Like I said, nearly all of the "boost" is lost in the overlap. The minor gain is from having a better and more completely fresh charge (From pushing more of the exhaust out than a normal stroke would be able to accomplish).
10-14-2006, 11:36 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
La la la, yada, yada, yada
Same question, same arguments, different week.
This comes up so often you can repeat the same responses and disagreements in your sleep.
Even if they do work, why do you want to make an engine that's already picky to tune (and most small nitros are) heaver, more complicated and harder still to tune?
Same question, same arguments, different week.
This comes up so often you can repeat the same responses and disagreements in your sleep.
Even if they do work, why do you want to make an engine that's already picky to tune (and most small nitros are) heaver, more complicated and harder still to tune?
10-14-2006, 11:59 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
I agree with you Dave. This is the common discussion cycle of forced induction and nitro engines:
Step 1 begins with the question: Can it be super/turbo charged?
Step 2 is: No it cannot because of the port opening overlap.
Step 3 is: Yes it can because there is not any overlap (actually there is).
Then the argument goes between Step 1 and Step 2 like a see-saw.
I added a Step 4 (forgive me for taking credit if someone has already thought of this): I say it might be possible if there is an engine with little or no overlap in its crank induction with the sleeve port and exhaust port timing (i.e. all ports are not open simultaneously).
My answer is: If you know the port timing profile and you know that those specs will work with forced induction, then get a supercharger if that is what you want. (I don't think they even make a turbocharger for nitro engines.)
Step 1 begins with the question: Can it be super/turbo charged?
Step 2 is: No it cannot because of the port opening overlap.
Step 3 is: Yes it can because there is not any overlap (actually there is).
Then the argument goes between Step 1 and Step 2 like a see-saw.
I added a Step 4 (forgive me for taking credit if someone has already thought of this): I say it might be possible if there is an engine with little or no overlap in its crank induction with the sleeve port and exhaust port timing (i.e. all ports are not open simultaneously).
My answer is: If you know the port timing profile and you know that those specs will work with forced induction, then get a supercharger if that is what you want. (I don't think they even make a turbocharger for nitro engines.)
10-15-2006, 01:12 AM
#12
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
ORIGINAL: Nitronutt
Basically, the crankcase can be pressurized by the supercharger, but when the piston travels down, which forces the mixture into the combustion chamber and opens the intake ports, it also is forcing the exhaust out and there is overlap in port timing. Like I said, nearly all of the "boost" is lost in the overlap. The minor gain is from having a better and more completely fresh charge (From pushing more of the exhaust out than a normal stroke would be able to accomplish).
Basically, the crankcase can be pressurized by the supercharger, but when the piston travels down, which forces the mixture into the combustion chamber and opens the intake ports, it also is forcing the exhaust out and there is overlap in port timing. Like I said, nearly all of the "boost" is lost in the overlap. The minor gain is from having a better and more completely fresh charge (From pushing more of the exhaust out than a normal stroke would be able to accomplish).
4strokes have overlap too, and you can boost them.... Guys people have been building boosted 2 strokes for years, back in the 90's there were a few companies building turbos for both Rotax and polaris 2 strokes, the Rotax is actualy very very similar to our nitro engines, and so is the polaris piston port...
Another thing is the whole time you intake ports are open your exhast is also open, there is not 1 point in time that the intake ports are open that the exhaust is not...but the the factor to look at is when in relation to intake port opening to crank window opening, These motors produce vacum, if they produce vacum they can be boosted its as simple as that..
10-15-2006, 06:32 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
4 strokes do not ever have the exhaust and intake valves open at the same time (Which is why they can be successfully boosted). See this demonstration on 4 strokes: http://www.keveney.com/otto.html
Here is an animation of a 2-stroke. Notice that when the fuel is coming in from the left, the exhaust is going out on the right (Both ports open at the same time). http://www.keveney.com/twostroke.html
The only difference between our Nitro engines and the typical 2-stroke is in the ignition. We use glow plugs instead of spark plugs.
Here is an animation of a 2-stroke. Notice that when the fuel is coming in from the left, the exhaust is going out on the right (Both ports open at the same time). http://www.keveney.com/twostroke.html
The only difference between our Nitro engines and the typical 2-stroke is in the ignition. We use glow plugs instead of spark plugs.
10-16-2006, 12:07 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
and the fact that a four stroke only explodes the air fuel mixture every other stroke. thats quite a big difference.
10-16-2006, 03:42 PM
#16
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
ORIGINAL: Nitronutt
4 strokes do not ever have the exhaust and intake valves open at the same time (Which is why they can be successfully boosted). See this demonstration on 4 strokes: http://www.keveney.com/otto.html
Here is an animation of a 2-stroke. Notice that when the fuel is coming in from the left, the exhaust is going out on the right (Both ports open at the same time). http://www.keveney.com/twostroke.html
The only difference between our Nitro engines and the typical 2-stroke is in the ignition. We use glow plugs instead of spark plugs.
4 strokes do not ever have the exhaust and intake valves open at the same time (Which is why they can be successfully boosted). See this demonstration on 4 strokes: http://www.keveney.com/otto.html
Here is an animation of a 2-stroke. Notice that when the fuel is coming in from the left, the exhaust is going out on the right (Both ports open at the same time). http://www.keveney.com/twostroke.html
The only difference between our Nitro engines and the typical 2-stroke is in the ignition. We use glow plugs instead of spark plugs.
dude I have designed my camshafts for my car, and had then custom ground by Crower....4 strokes have overlap, ever hear a old muscle car with a rumpy idle ??? thats called reversion and is caused by excessive overlap between intake and exhaust valves....
and the thing is were not talking about boosting the combustion chamber, so get that out of your head.... we are talking about boosting the crankcase...when the motor inducts thru the carb, the sleeve ports are blocked by the piston, so the supercharger can deliver a larger denser charge intot he crankcase, then when the piston drops the crank window closes and the bigger charge gets forced into the combustion chamber.... Yes they can be boosted LOL
10-16-2006, 03:44 PM
#17
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
ORIGINAL: Nitronutt
4 strokes do not ever have the exhaust and intake valves open at the same time (Which is why they can be successfully boosted). See this demonstration on 4 strokes: http://www.keveney.com/otto.html
Here is an animation of a 2-stroke. Notice that when the fuel is coming in from the left, the exhaust is going out on the right (Both ports open at the same time). http://www.keveney.com/twostroke.html
The only difference between our Nitro engines and the typical 2-stroke is in the ignition. We use glow plugs instead of spark plugs.
4 strokes do not ever have the exhaust and intake valves open at the same time (Which is why they can be successfully boosted). See this demonstration on 4 strokes: http://www.keveney.com/otto.html
Here is an animation of a 2-stroke. Notice that when the fuel is coming in from the left, the exhaust is going out on the right (Both ports open at the same time). http://www.keveney.com/twostroke.html
The only difference between our Nitro engines and the typical 2-stroke is in the ignition. We use glow plugs instead of spark plugs.
10-16-2006, 09:52 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
I definitly agree that the supercharger can pressurize the crank case, but when the piston drops (increases the crankcase pressure) and opens the intake (and exhaust) ports (into the combustion chamber), the boost is nearly (if not completely) lost. How can you not concentrate on the combustion chamber (Where everything happens)? 2 strokes (Just like 4 strokes) need that mixture in the combustion chamber to fire.
At any rate, I say that it doesn't work because the boost (aka increased pressure) does not stay increased when flowing into in the combustion chamber. How does the mixture not simply flow into the chamber, right across the piston and out the exhaust port? Here is a great thread on polishing a SH 28 Nitro engine. There are many photos of the sleeve where you can see how the mixture would flow right across and the boost be lost. You can see that the intake and exhaust ports are right across from each other and would both be open at the same time. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_28...tm.htm#3274155
If you cap a tube and blow into one end, you can build pressure. If both ends are open, you can move air through it, but not build any pressure. This is the same idea with intake and exhaust ports open. The mixture would blow across, but cannot build pressure. I'm not saying that the charge would not be more dense (Because more exhaust is pushed out), because it would be, but the boost is waisted out the exhaust before the piston goes back up.
At any rate, I say that it doesn't work because the boost (aka increased pressure) does not stay increased when flowing into in the combustion chamber. How does the mixture not simply flow into the chamber, right across the piston and out the exhaust port? Here is a great thread on polishing a SH 28 Nitro engine. There are many photos of the sleeve where you can see how the mixture would flow right across and the boost be lost. You can see that the intake and exhaust ports are right across from each other and would both be open at the same time. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_28...tm.htm#3274155
If you cap a tube and blow into one end, you can build pressure. If both ends are open, you can move air through it, but not build any pressure. This is the same idea with intake and exhaust ports open. The mixture would blow across, but cannot build pressure. I'm not saying that the charge would not be more dense (Because more exhaust is pushed out), because it would be, but the boost is waisted out the exhaust before the piston goes back up.
10-16-2006, 11:29 PM
#19
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
ORIGINAL: Nitronutt
I definitly agree that the supercharger can pressurize the crank case, but when the piston drops (increases the crankcase pressure) and opens the intake (and exhaust) ports (into the combustion chamber), the boost is nearly (if not completely) lost. How can you not concentrate on the combustion chamber (Where everything happens)? 2 strokes (Just like 4 strokes) need that mixture in the combustion chamber to fire.
At any rate, I say that it doesn't work because the boost (aka increased pressure) does not stay increased when flowing into in the combustion chamber. How does the mixture not simply flow into the chamber, right across the piston and out the exhaust port? Here is a great thread on polishing a SH 28 Nitro engine. There are many photos of the sleeve where you can see how the mixture would flow right across and the boost be lost. You can see that the intake and exhaust ports are right across from each other and would both be open at the same time. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_28...tm.htm#3274155
If you cap a tube and blow into one end, you can build pressure. If both ends are open, you can move air through it, but not build any pressure. This is the same idea with intake and exhaust ports open. The mixture would blow across, but cannot build pressure. I'm not saying that the charge would not be more dense (Because more exhaust is pushed out), because it would be, but the boost is waisted out the exhaust before the piston goes back up.
I definitly agree that the supercharger can pressurize the crank case, but when the piston drops (increases the crankcase pressure) and opens the intake (and exhaust) ports (into the combustion chamber), the boost is nearly (if not completely) lost. How can you not concentrate on the combustion chamber (Where everything happens)? 2 strokes (Just like 4 strokes) need that mixture in the combustion chamber to fire.
At any rate, I say that it doesn't work because the boost (aka increased pressure) does not stay increased when flowing into in the combustion chamber. How does the mixture not simply flow into the chamber, right across the piston and out the exhaust port? Here is a great thread on polishing a SH 28 Nitro engine. There are many photos of the sleeve where you can see how the mixture would flow right across and the boost be lost. You can see that the intake and exhaust ports are right across from each other and would both be open at the same time. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_28...tm.htm#3274155
If you cap a tube and blow into one end, you can build pressure. If both ends are open, you can move air through it, but not build any pressure. This is the same idea with intake and exhaust ports open. The mixture would blow across, but cannot build pressure. I'm not saying that the charge would not be more dense (Because more exhaust is pushed out), because it would be, but the boost is waisted out the exhaust before the piston goes back up.
ahhh, you missed a point... boost doesn't make HP...but increased volume of mixture will..PSI is just a by-product of increased air,, air intake is the limiting factor on all engines, when I port an engine I improves its ability to pump air....PSI doesn't have anything to do with HP, increased air volume does, the supercharger is similar to the difference in operating an engine at 20 000 feet as compared to operating at seal level...
10-16-2006, 11:53 PM
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RE: heard of a superchager for you truck?
The biggest point of all (In my ignorant opinion) is that NO ONE that is winning any races that I know of, club level, circut or national, is running one. The main reason is that you can get an engine for almost any vehicle that will be powerful enough to make it virtually uncontrollable. And do so without the added expense of a forced induction or NOS system, or whatever. This begs the question, why argue about it? Not that I am not learning anything mind you, quite the opposite. I find this thread fascinating, and informative.
