baxternick

My Feedback: (19)

I have a LST2 and I want to replace the old losi motor on it. I was looking at the OS .30 but wanted to ask first.... What is the most user friendly, and most powerful motor I can get for this thing?

MaddMatt

LRP .30, Big Red .28 Mach2, 454XXL engine. The 454, and the Big Red both still use the spin starter. These are what I would check out first.

HerrSavage

What he said..

The LRP 30 is exactly what you're looking for. The Mach spinstart should fit the 30 too. At least that's what I was told. My new LRP 30 is here already, waiting for spring..

The Big Red is a nice option too - and cheap.. Check out www.overdriverc.com for a good price on it. I think amain has a good price too, but I have noticed that amain finagles their prices on the Big Red, so one day it costs $135, the next $150... I got one of those on the way too for my other LST2...

The Losi 454 is an LRP Spec 3 twin. The LRP Spec 3 has pretty much been THE LST2 engine for years..

Any of the above are what you want...

supertib

Picco 28.......I personally don't find the LRP engines to be overly good tuning.... way too affected by carb temps which makes them tune bad and eat fuel...performance is only mediocre at best.....

HerrSavage

Come on now.. You can love Piccos all you want - but claiming LRP's are hard to tune is just silly talk...

They practically tune themselves - and stay tuned. And performance-wise, though maybe %10-15 less than a Picco(pretty much what the dynos say..) is plenty good for an MT, where so much energy is just wasted in extra drivetrain wear etc anyway.. Put identical LST2's next to each other, one with an LRP, one with a Picco, and neither will be dramatically faster than the other..

Furthermore, the stock LST2 pipe is practically the perfect pipe for the LRP, and it doesn't need any washers to get it to line up right like a Picco does...

And finally, the OP says he wants something "user-friendly". And even some of the most die-hard Picco fans around will admit that the Picco doesn't exactly fit that description...

supertib

I will tell you straight up that I think these are very poor tuning engines, sure they are easy to get running, but they are incapable of achieving a proper precise race tune, they are easy to get moderately close, but incapable of getting a perfect tune...they are a very obtuse tuning engine, a Picco is a very precise tuning engine.. ......All the MT versions of these engines do not have an insulted carb, they are horrible for boiling the fuel inside the carb, causing you to have to run the low speed extremely rich, which results in a less then crisp bottom end and probably the worst fuel economy I have ever seen..... The only way to keep the carbs cool enough to tune is to pump huge amounts of fuel thru the carb...... This season we ran several Mach 454's and my LRP 30 and they all did the same thing.... as soon as the engine gets warm they want to high idle really badly and carry RPM after throttling......The only way to stop this is to run the engine excessively rich, which gives the throttle a very mushy feel ...Watch all the videos of these engines and they all want to high idle like crazy.....What is even worse is the fact that once you richen the bejeesus out of the needles to keep it somewhat running right when its hot it wont idle Worth a dam....do a high speed run, bring machine back in, engine high idles for about 30-60 seconds till the carb cools off enough to stop boiling the fuel, then the tune becomes so rich the engine will barely run and when you go to take off its stupid rich and wont make power........ Honestly these engines do not impress me one bit, listening to them all high idle coming off a runs just irks me.....A rookie or novice may be happy with these engines as they are easy to get running and keep running, but anyone who knows anything about how a properly tuned nitro should run is not going to be impressed.............The Picco is a far more consistent and accurate tuning engine, that is capable of a much better tune then the LRP/Sh engines are..... Several members of the LST forums were diehard SH/LRP fans... These guys went on to run Truggies with Picco's .... about 1 year after that they both went back and ran their LRP's and both guys couldn't beleive how poor the tuning and performance really was....at one time they thought the LRP's were the greatest things since sliced bread, however after learning to tune some real race engines they found the LRP's weren't nearly as good as they remembered them to be...... this is Nitrofreakmanho and Stinger..... Both guys now laugh at the LRP's and all the hype around them..as do I....

HerrSavage

Fair enough Tib.. But you have to remember, not everybody wants to invest the time, money, or hassle into getting a perfectly running race engine, that needs special plugs, a replaced rod and bearings after break-in, etc.. I will admit, I was simply amazed the first time I saw an OS Speed warming up at a local race. Just sitting there, idling forever like a Swiss watch...

But with that engine, 1.), well, OK a Speed is an extreme example because it costs three times what an LRP costs, and 2.) there's just a list of stuff you have to worry about with it - plug, pipe, fuel, etc.. Now yes, the Picco tunes more precisely, and will be snappier on throttle response.. But the issue is, what does it take to achieve that? IMO - for me anyway - it's too much. I like my €130 SH engines that I can throw away after 6-8 gallons without chaning anything, run whatever old plug or RTR pipe I feel like it or have laying around, that get along with my Sidewinder fuel which I can buy just up the road, that don't require a fuel-wasting gallon break-in (something I've REALLY come to dislike with these other high-pinch engines..), that tune and break in without a lot of drama, etc..

I am totally sure a well-running Picco is a nice thing to have - nicer than an LRP. But part of - A BIG PART OF - the LRP's niceness is precisely that user-friendliness. Mount it, do a quick break-in, and letter' rip...

I am so sick of racing, the whole über-competitive mentality of it.. I am very competitive btw - but in a more action-oriented way.. Not in being willing to sit there and apply electrical heating devices to my f'ing tires between heats, to change shock and diff oils between every heat, invest in over-expensive RB or Novarossi engines and their over-expensive matching pipes, to get whatever the newest fad tires or bodies are, etc etc etc... It's kind of like my earlier experience playing soccer. The more you go up the scale of "competitiveness", the more fun gets taken out of it.. But back in the club/scrub/pub league, I liked going for it tooth an nail... I've left the field bleeding on more than a few occasions during pickup games.. But back to RC, changing diff oils between heats is like running laps at soccer practice.. Pfff... Screw that.. I'm more into showing up for the game, going all out, then drinking a beer.. The racing mentality with truggies is like that. You trug is outdated after 3-4 months, it costs a stupendous fortune(honestly, a season of full-on racing with top gear probably costs enough to buy four XXL's...

Anyway, I anyway am sick of all that.. All I want now is to take my LST2's out to a field and blast them around with as little hassle as possible. And for that the LRP's are perfect. I got my LRP 30 btw for less than €110... That's just silly, silly cheap...

But whatever. To each his own. If my particular circumstances were different - if I had a cool track nearby, or even just knew some cool RC guys to hang out with, I'd probably be more into trying new, potentially more complicated stuff.. But everybody's got a different situation... Shrug..

bigblock454XXL

My Feedback: (-1)

Heck Yea. . . . The only part of all this mumbo jumbo that actually made sense.
You forgot. . . . .Then go home, fix what's broke, beg forgivess from Woman at home, then repeat!!!

baxternick

My Feedback: (19)

So is the LRP more power than the stock 427 I have? Also will I have to purchase a new header for it? My local shop has the OS .30 for a great price, but if the LRP is that nice than I will research it some tonight. Also do any of you guys run the BUKU pipe on yours? I thougth about ordering one just to try it out. I don't race my LST, just bash it around the yard, and play at the track from time to time. I don't really care about the price and I have some knowledge about nitro from before my giant scale flying days, and from nitro boats, so I can tune them pretty well. I just more than anything want a long lasting motor that won't be a headache every time I want to run my truck. The stock motor has been good, but doesn't pull as hard as it used to, and I am ready to replace it.

Sugafree

The OS .30 is Probably one of the Crappiest Engines ever made....And Yes the LRP will Walk All over the Stock 427........And will Run Great with the Stock HT Pipe..... (I know a few that have Tried the BUKU pipe....Your Money would be better Spent on other Hop ups)

HerrSavage

The LRP is essentially the 28 big brother of the 26 Mach 427 stock engine. Very similar tuning and running characteristics, with the LRP having more oomph.

If you can find a deal one, get the LRP 30. Same thing applies..

baxternick

My Feedback: (19)

I found two LRP motors. A .30, and a .30 X competition. Which one guys? Also does anyone know if the factory spin start will work? If the BUKU pipe is a waste of money what pipe/header do you reccomend?

HerrSavage

Forget the 30X - that's the one with a closed backplate which will only work in a truggy or buggy(i.e., with a startbox..) You want the normal one with a pullstart.

I know the Mach backplate for the Spinstart fits the LRP 28, and have been assured it fits the 30 too..

Pipe-wise I would just stick with the stock LST2 pipe for starters. Some guys on the Savage forum say the LRP 30 is good with an 053.. But because the LST2 has the weird header thing, I don't know how great it responds to pipe changes.. I'm sure you can find a stock LST2 or XXL pipe and header on e-bay for cheap..

str8jailbird

yes the 427 back plate is a direct match for the z30. Don't forget the OWB from the 427 as well as the z30 is a different size and the 427's needs to be used for proper fit. Flywheel clearance should be an issue, I had to remove a hair of material for clearance from the carb mount, no big issue. The Z30 is a Great motor as well as the Z28 for us backyard runners!

ntrain42

I know this is an old post, but I had to respond. The stock LRP .28 engine will give a good tune if you take your time with it. You make it out to be alot worse than it actually is. Your correct that Picco engines have very precise fine tuning ability, but the differences you make it out to be I feel is a bit over exxagerated.

But I will tell you this. Slap on a carb from an LRP .21x or .30x, use either the 7mm or 7.5mm insert depending on which carb you have and that LRP .28engine will hold its own against the Picco for both overall power output and ability to be precisely tuned in turn conserving alot of gas. One of the big problems with the LRP .28 spec3 engine is the carb is just a bittoo bigfor that engine if you really want to dial it in over a broader rpm range.

str8jailbird

Any links to order either of those carbs? I have been looking but can't find anything!

ntrain42

First off, go to LRP's website, there will be part #'s on the website for engine replacement parts like here: http://www.lrp.cc/en/products/nitro-...n/ersatzteile/

The part # for the carbused inthe .30 x engine is: 38553

Next step is to find a dealer that carries LRP and can order it up for you since it is probably not a part that normally is in stock.

I personally would go with the carb off the .30 X engine and use the 7.5mm insert. The 9mm carb on the .28 is fine at WOT/ high speed running etc, but IMO for typical bashing where
the rpm's are generally going to be in the lower to mid rpm range the majority of the timethe 7.5 insertis much better suited. You may lose a little bit of top end power, but overall you will have a much punchier, stronger running engine with improved run times due to overall tuning being more precise over a wider powerband through the midrange.

If you want to shift the powerband down even lower, then go with the .21 x carb instead. It offers both 6mm and 7mm inserts. Using one of these will again shift the powerband down a bit lower, at the expense of a bitmore top end power.

Regardless of which way you go, either one will give you significant improvements in the overall tune and powerband.

supertib

No my friend...I am not mistaken ...that I am sure of..............However I respect what your saying and your point of view... We just come from 2 very different places in this hobby and have 2 very different sets of standards.......if you ran the engines I ran as I run them you would see things as i see them, and I remember back some years when I ran LRP 28's and they were to me the cats meow, so I do know where your coming from......The issue with the LRP carb is not its size, its the fact it has no thermal insulating and is made completely of metal....You will not find a modern race engine in existence that doesn't have some sort of insulated carb, and there is a reason for that....Put a Picco carb on a LRP 28 or a Nova carb on a LRP 30 if you really want to make a difference....both those carbs will tune 1000x better then any LRP carb will......... If SH built such good engines then why does LRP get Picco to build all their high priced race engines ?

ntrain42

All this post points to by you is that you don't know your LRP engines well. THe 2 replacement LRP carbs I speak of have an thermal insulated foot. ANd regardless of the thermal upgrade, the intake port sleeves benefit highly by using a smaller sleeve, it cuts down on fuel consumption at low speeds and increases tune as well by improving combustion through increased port airvelocity at lower rpm speeds. WHat works for real life race engines, works for these simple hobby mills as well.

supertib

I know LRP's better then you think my friend.... ! yes I admit I don't bother with them these days, but a few years back I was modding them by the dozen with excellent results....

Now I don't see the logic in buying a LRP, then buying a upgraded carb so it will tune decently...I would rather just buy a $190.00 Picco 28 and be done with it...more power, more RPM, better tuning and longer lifespan...Italian race engine vs Taiwanese sport engine ( that needs a upgraded carb to compete)...by the time you buy the carb your spending more then just starting with the Picco no ?

How much is the thermally insulated carb anyways ?

And by the way, I have more then just a "handle"on what works with these engines ! I even have a dyno and my own successful modding company as well as my own brand of fuel...Your not talking down to a RTR newb here my friend !

http://www.clockworkracingengines.com/

HerrSavage

Supertib, you still exaggerate when you talk about all this. Piccos will NOT outlive an LRP. Plenty of Piccos - just like LRP's or anyhting else - in the wrong hands can die an early death. Plenty of people have had major headaches trying to tune their Piccos. And frankly you're the only one to ever really complain about tuning an LRP, oddly enough... LRP carbs are NOT that bad. If they were, I wouldn't bother with them. Nobody has less patience for finicky engines than I do. That's pretty much the main reason I've never given up on SH engines and moved to something else(most times I have tried something else it was a major PIA.. - Novarossi 528XR and the Orion 24 are two engines I wish I'd never laid hands on.. But through it all the same old Mach kept running like ... sorry.... clockwork..)

And "sport" and "race" is bunk too. Yeah the more expensive "race" engines idle better. But we're talking 130 bucks for a Big Red, which speed-wise in most basher MT's will hang with a simliar MT with a Picco in it.. IMHO only in a buggy really do you need a more "race" type engine. With truggies I still maintain a Mach 427 makes a good club race engine for a truggy - and costs HALF of everything else..(cheap RTR pipe works great, any old plug or fuel..., no need to change rods after a gallon, etc..) And with MT's for bashing around the back yard, well, who cares what engine you have... A Force 28 will get the job done in a lot of cases.. I personally am sticking with the SH 28's.. My LRP Spec 3 is like 2+ years old, and I lost track of how much fuel is through it.. And it still goes and goes and goes - without hassle.. The ONLY products in RC I can say that about %100 are my LRP Spec 3, my two Mach 427's, and my Hitec 5955 servos..

On a side-note, I just put the first tank through my new SC8. It's got a SW 26 in it that cost me about 100 bucks. I've really been wondering if it'd be powerful enough, if I need a brutal 28 - or brutal 21 or whatever... But jeezus the thing screams pretty much at the limit of what I can control - and though no pro, I'm not a newb at driving either...

ntrain42

Supertib: If your starting from scratch or just buying an engine, then would you put a $190 Picco against a similiar priced X series motor from LRP? I really wouldn't. $180 gets you an 8 port  .21 or .30 LRP X series motor with the fully configurable insulated carb. If we are talking about upgraded an existing base LRP powerplant then picking up an X series carb for it is really the best thing to do and alot cheaper.

   Sounds to me like you have never played with the X motor. I suggest picking one up and getting a good feel for it.

One thing I would like to know, is which surface engines are sourced out by LRP? Any links? Maybe the X series is built by Picco which is not to my knowledge as Im just getting back into nitro after being out of the hobby seriously for the last decade:


Also, nice to have a little mod business like that. Again pick up an X LRP motor, get back to me after. I've already played with a dozen or so mills in the last 2 months, the LRP X series is definetly the best bang for the buck I have found so far. A number of more expensive mills I have played with just didn't produce any more notcieable real world power over the LRP branded counter parts, other than an OS grind that was twice the price, and even that OS itself wasn't itself justifying double the price. Your going to be impressed with it. You would be lying if you stated otherwise.

  WHen I got time I will be playing with and ports on the .30 LRP that I have boxed up right now. These hobby motor mills will benefit from ports being reshaped and filled a bit.

PS: If your ever on 2 wheels and in the area, you should stop by my place of employment: http://www.rrcycles.com



  Full machine shop on site, Fadal CNC, Andrews grind module(One of only 2 in the USA)etc. etc. We engineer and build our own motors,cams, custom parts etc.

supertib

Yes we put a OS 28 vs a LRP X30 in Truggies...the OS absolutely smoked the LRP... the LRP could hang off the line, but in he mid and top the OS is way faster...the OS also gets much better runtimes....

Patrick, I machine pistons, sleeves and cranks everyday....there is a massive difference in the meterial quality between a SH and a Picco...the Picco chrome is much thicker and harder, the brass is harder, the steel in the crank is many times harder and the Pistons are much harder....As well the LRP uses a heavy cast piston, the Picco has a lightweight billet piston...The LRP uses Taiwanese bearings, the Picco uses swiss bearings......No contest....! both engines will reach 10 gallons of use pretty easilly...but the LRP is much harder on fuel, so it may match the Picco in gallons used in lifetime it will by no means last anywhere near as long in actual runtime... Now of course I am talking engine lifespan based on normal operating wear...Not idiot induced damage......Measure a LRP crankpin after 4 gallons in a Truggy, then measure a Picco crankpin after the same 4 gallons...the LRP has a much softer steel, and the crankpins wear much much faster....

Here is one of the Picco built LRP"s..... none of LRP's competition engines are made by SH, they are all Picco built ! even their .12 onroad is Picco built


2010 version
http://www.redrc.net/2010/01/lrp-zr-...-team-version/

2011 version

http://www.rcnitrotalk.com/lrp-zr-21...-nitro-engine/

IMO its a no brainer, for equal money Picco over SH any day ! sorry guys....

All LRP's engines would be Picco based, but they make too much money rebranding the Taiwanese sport engines.. The bashers usually wont even know enough to notice, but in the racing circles they aren't going to win many customers with rebranded SH engines....

supertib

Are you using the carb from a ZR .21X ? if so you are actually using a Picco carb, the exact carb that is on the Picco 28's........ Yes it is a better tuning carb, I will agree with you...as when I installed a Picco carb on a LRP 28 all the idle issues resolved and the engine got much better mileage and much better throttle response...

HerrSavage

Is it not the case that higher pinch engines put more stress on the conrod, so that a Picco for ex. is more likely to need a conrod change after a gallon or two? Piccos are priced attractively, I'll admit.. Even here I found a shop selling them off at dumping prices..(can get a turbo head truggy P3 for €129..) Though here in Germany everybody says there are 3-port and 9-port versions.. [sm=confused.gif] Though I've heard you say all P3's are the same.. Piccos are priced though at a point where they're pretty much throw-away engines too.. What's a Picco conrod cost anyway? Whatever the case, I just don't think "the metal is harder" is a very good argument for Piccos over LRP's.. LRP's are notoriously easy to tune(I honestly don't think you can say that Piccos unequivocally have that reputation too..), make decent power, and in my case anyway live a long time with little hassle.. Throw in the cheap price and I just think - for what I do and what I'm willing to invest - it's the right engine. And I think it is for a lot of other people too - not just newbs either. I was thinking of maybe a 28 for my SC8.. And have been playing with ideas of the new Alpha 28, or maybe a Picco.. But in reality, I should just ignore my engine addiction and the urge to try something new(did that with that stupid-ass Orion 24..) and get an LRP Truggy 28.. Same plugs, same pipe, same tuning characteristics, good big power.. No-brainer.

In any event, I'm not into fiddling with conrods, rebuilding, etc.. Set-and-forget, throw it away when it doesn't work anymore and get a new one.. I know other people see things differently, and that's fine. But that's how I see and do things at this point and time.. I mean, with several RC's and an erratic work schedule - and even worse weather the last couple years.. - ten gallons could take me 2+ years.. And nobody really wants to run an engine that long anyway..(though my Spec 3 won't die and keeps running well every time I take it out, so the LRP 30 I got as its replacement is still on the shelf in the box...)