Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

Here's a thorny one:

If the reports are true, and the MAAC/SW Zone Chatam NATS are positioned to make a profit. Where should the profit go?

When the MAAC/SW Zone World scale event went into the red by a steep margin, MAAC, and thus the membership, picked up the losses.

Does it stand to reason that a National/International sponsored MAAC event that turns a profit go back to the membership? Or at least a split profit agreement between MAAC and hosting clubs? Or........

Using last years FAI glider event in Alta as an example, a modest profit was realized. I may be corrected, but I believe some of the profit went back to the membership.

I'll tell you right now, there is no set policy so it's a great one for debate.

Personally, if the members money is being risked and put up when there are losses, they should certainly be entitled to share in any profits.

What are your thoughts?

Jim_McIntyre

MAAC is an organization tasked with promoting the hobby, not to engage in profit making ventures.

If an event makes a profit, great. If funding came from MAAC, and sweat equity from local clubs, both should profit.

If an event loses money (<sarcasm>gee, how could a promotion actually cost money?</sarcasm>), the hobby (and all us participants) still win as MAAC has accomplished one of it's tasks.

If an event loses a 'lot' of money, some lessons may be learned.

britbrat

Sure hope so.

4*60

My Feedback: (41)

quote: If an event makes a profit, great. If funding came from MAAC, and sweat equity from local clubs, both should profit.


Absolutely

britbrat

Agreed, but in what ratio?

Jim_McIntyre

I think it would be safest to leave this as a negotiable since different types of events require variable effort, and both organizers and MAAC should not be held to some catch-all ruling. IOW, do we really have to legislate everything?

britbrat

Yes, where other people's (members') money is involved. It could be negotiable, but the limits of negotiability, and accountability for the negotiated deal must be firmly established.

Jim_McIntyre

I would think that MAAC money spend is ultimately at the discretion of the people we elect to represent our interests....

britbrat

Hmmmm. Trust us with your money -- we know what we are doing & we know what you want. I might agree with you (maybe), but I'm not at all sure how many others would agree. I guess we'll find out.

Jim_McIntyre

The alternative is to call for a general vote on all expenditures .... what do you think that would cost.

It's easy to criticise, I would simply ask that you provide a viable alternative when criticising. This simple compromise should keep us on the friendly side of conversations.....

britbrat

I thought that I did make a suggestion --- put boundaries on the limits of negotiation.

Additionally, since the issue of distribution of profits rarely comes up, it would not be impractical to have the general membership approve the negotiated distribution of such profits.

kenair

My Feedback: (10)

Could any of these event be held if there was no MAAK, therefore it is through general membership dollars that provide the intangible means to host such an event. One would think tt would only be common sense for the MAAK board and the event organizers to have an partnership agreement of sharing profits and losses.

Could one expect the general membership to provide the seed money, the mechanisim to host such an event and assume the debt if any and then not share in the profits in some way.

I would also think it would behove the special interests groups to return some of the event profit to the general organization,otherwise to keep the profits for their only special interest group would give the appearance of having only their own specific interests at heart wheicjh we know is not the case.

britbrat

Just for discussion, here are some of my thoughts on the possible distribution of profits from MAAC-sponsored major events.

If the distribution were to be based on a fixed formula, that formula should be directly approved by the membership before the first such distribution takes place. Thereafter, all future distributions would simply follow the formula.

In the case of a negotiated distribution, and since the generation of profits is infrequent, it would not be burdensome for the general membership to review the expenditure history and specifically approve or reject the distribution at the AGM, as part of the annual budgetary review and approval process.

If the proposed distribution failed to gain approval, the full amount of the profits should remain with MAAC itself.

I'm not sure, but it may be worthwhile to have the end-use of MAAC's portion of the profits pre-determined & approved as part of the same process.

Jim_McIntyre

Guys .... MAAC is not a for-profit organization....

MAAC is organized to promote the hobby while providing a central communication vehicle.

MAAC is also primarily a volunteer organization. If events were run by paid employees, you may have a better case on your hands.

MAAC does not invest money in hopes of turning a profit, it spends our money to benefit the hobby as a whole, an expensed service.

The following issues arise from your proposals:

Given that different events require different levels of effort, and money to run;

A one size fits all solution will not work, it will result in haves and have-nots. Competitions by nature cost more to run than simple funflies. Simply put, complexity costs.

Providing different rules for different events can only lead to bickering.

I just don't see a viable solution to this problem. []

britbrat

Jim, you were the one who suggested that a negotiated settlement was a possible solution to the distribution of profits (that we're not supposed to make). You also suggested letting the elected reps make the decision -- which is a "one size fits all" solution.

What are you actually suggesting that MAAC do with the money?

Jim_McIntyre

Since when are negotiated settlements equivalent to a "one size fits all" solution?[sm=confused.gif]

Pardon me but, I'm confused. My suggestion was that the exec evaluate these individually, considering the wide range of effort involved in the several disciplines.

I will further suggest that MAAC might consider providing a forgiveable amount and consider it an expensed promotion... one of their mandates. In my mind, this would make more sense than the catch-all bucket that was given to ZD's to spend at their own discretion....

britbrat

OK, there's some confusion here. I was referring to letting MAAC make the distribution as a "one size fits all', not the negotiated settlement. However, if MAAC does such distributions on an individual basis, I would still like to see bounding conditions that the membership approves.

Does your "forgiveable amount" apply to profitable ventures, or to money-losing ventures, or both? If it applies to profitable ventures, would the forgivable amount be the portion that the host receives -- perhaps in lieu of profit shares?

Jim_McIntyre

I don't think I can agree to a "one size fits all" distribution, that's basically what we had with the Zone funding, and I don't think that worked very well. A fair distribution of money but, perhaps inequitable use.[sm=confused.gif]

I'm not a marketing guru so I'll spare you my cut on what I think would work but, I would think that a successful track record could be one criteria for a larger promotions budget..... again, I not a statistical analyst or an efficiency expert so I'll spare you my cut on how this would be measured.

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

Personally, I think almost all events should be able to stand on their own two feet and look only to MAAC to keep the insurance there.

Sponsors are out there and everywhere if the effort is put in. A good example;

http://mbz.portage.net/cgi-bin/yabb/...num=1115817256

Before anyone jumps, I realize that some competition events may require require a few bucks to get started, but it shouldn't be automatic and if the event comes to MAAC members, asking them to back possible losses, then the organizers better be prepared to share in any profits.

I don't think it has to be complicated. For example purposes only, 50/50 split with organizers distributing their half as they see fit and MAAC dumping their portion into a slush fund to use for backing the next similar event.

Jabba

Well Sharpy ---- instead of talking why not do something...

STAND UP and say you will run the NEXT NATS.... you sound like you know everythink.... It should be a WIZZZ for a person like you to do this job.

COME on show us you can do it.

Do something good for a change....

All in favour of Sharpy running the NATS say YES!!!

I sure would like to see this happen.

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

.......one problem;

I don't really care about the NATS.

It's about the members Money, Mr Palmer Johnson....................., where it goes, how it's spent and being accountable to the membership when you do spend their money. That's it.

All events are potentially good events and I hope all do well, but if the members money is being used, then accountability is essential.

...............or are you simply trying (quite poorly) to discredit differing opinion.............again? [X(]

jhelps

Is MAAC incorporated? (federal or provincial?).

JH

britbrat

I'd certainly be in favour of provocative and antagonistic crap like that dissappearing when a serious discussion is in progress.

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

.......he did.

a wee hit an run "stickthowinG" [8D]

(Maybe he realized how stupid he was making himself look as these discussion were not heading in that direction when he pooped by.)