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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/12/2011 3:07 PM   
cmoulder


 

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Status: offline 		It looks as if the motor can be mounted directly to the firewall without using the aluminum motor mount that weighs 19.2 grams (plus another set of bolts, washers and blind nuts).

Is this correct, or am I missing something?

Motor thrust of 3 deg right and 2 deg down??

< Message edited by cmoulder -- 2/12/2011 3:31 PM >

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/12/2011 4:04 PM   
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Status: offline 		JLK,
Thanks for directing me to your canopy install.

Here are my weights
Fuse 824g
canopy 122g
R Wing 339g
L Wing 333g
R Stab 80g
L Stab 84g
gear 124g
pants 51g

Total 2059g , 72.6oz

The paint work on my plane was pretty good except for a significant amount of silver paint overspray in the chin cowl area and in the area where the top fuse transitions to the verticle fin. Did anyone else get overspray in these areas?

Glen

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/12/2011 4:45 PM   
jlkonn



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Status: offline 		Wow Glen!
Mine is more than 7oz heavier than yours!
I hope I've taken it easy on the glue!!!!
I have silver in the areas you describe...on both V1 and V2.
I think it's an attempt on the manufacturers part to make it look
like carbon weave or honeycomb. Kinda like those paints jobs you see
on custom cars and planes like the outer covering is pealing away to
reveal something high tech beneath.
Does that sound like yours?
JLK

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/12/2011 7:37 PM   
shepga


 

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Status: offline 		I forgot to show the wing tube as 102g but the total was correct... 2059g.

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/12/2011 8:28 PM   
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Status: offline 		 I really like the new version of this plane that Chris is selling. It's a dynamite flier at a great price. Mike


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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/16/2011 3:00 AM   
cmoulder


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the help, guys! lol

Hmm... everybody must be busy in their workshops!

Guess I'll just go with 3 deg right (for 14 pitch prop) and 1 deg down since the thrust line isn't very far above the wing.

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/16/2011 3:47 AM   
shepga


 

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Status: offline 		Bob,
How are you going to measure it and keep it set as you glue your firewall? I'm thinking I could build the right thrust and down thrust into a spacer I would use to set my spinner backplate gap.

Glen



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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/16/2011 11:57 AM   
cmoulder


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shepga

Bob,
How are you going to measure it and keep it set as you glue your firewall? I'm thinking I could build the right thrust and down thrust into a spacer I would use to set my spinner backplate gap.

Glen




Glen,

I think that's what I will do as well, make an oversized spinner backplate from ply and then the angled spacer and somehow anchor it to the model's nosering with the firewall attached to the motor. Seems a little gymnastics will be involved, but that appears to be how some others are doing it on various models. I did find and download the firewall pattern posted on the F3A Electric discussion group. Good info also found on the RCU Valiant thread.

This is my first electric 2-meter pattern ship (and composite as well) so I am venturing into new territory here.

The composite firewall and servo tray material arrived yesterday from ACP. I got a couple sheets of both the end-grain balsa CF laminate and the nomex honeycomb laminate. A long-time pattern guy and friend of mine gave me some pointers on these materials last night at our club meeting.

The aeropoxy is arriving in the mail today which means the next couple of weeks should be interesting.

How far along are you on your assembly? Thus far I've gotten the elevator and wing servos installed and linkages done on the elevators. Elevator linkages were a bit tedious, but the the aileron links will be easy by comparison.


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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/16/2011 12:14 PM   
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Status: offline 		The way I did the V1, and will use the same method for the V2, was to have the motor mounting holes drilled in the firewall and the
firewall fitted as close as possible in the fuse.
I made a spinner spacer ring as you describe with the desired backplate spacing and side/down thrust.
Got all this assembled and then hung the fuse by the wing tube holes in the shop oriented as close a possible to
dead straight nose up.
Once this was done and I had the spinner with spacer centered I tack glued the firewall in from the back with Bob Violett
epoxy...can't remember what it's called off the top of my head but it's the stuff you need to use a "gun" and can attach
a long mixing nozzle to the end of.
Once this setup at least 24 hours I carefully removed the motor and then ran a finish bead of the BVM stuff around the front and back side
of the firewall to fuse seam.
Worked really good.
JLK

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/16/2011 6:54 PM   
shepga


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cmoulder


quote:

ORIGINAL: shepga

Bob,
How are you going to measure it and keep it set as you glue your firewall? I'm thinking I could build the right thrust and down thrust into a spacer I would use to set my spinner backplate gap.

Glen




Glen,


How far along are you on your assembly? Thus far I've gotten the elevator and wing servos installed and linkages done on the elevators. Elevator linkages were a bit tedious, but the the aileron links will be easy by comparison.



Bob,
I haven't started mine yet since I plan to install the new Pletty Advanced 30 and it is not yet available. I also need to order my elevator servos, which I'll do when the motor is available. However I did order BVM canopy hooks. I should get these in a couple of days, so I'll start work on the canopy as well as do what I can fabricating the spinner backplate spacer this weekend. I did purchase my charge box case this afternoon. I decided to purchase one of those aluminum boxes where the lid is split in two down the center and hinged on both sides (Harbor Freight). Since I have my power supplies and Celpro PL8 I'll work on the charge box now also.

Glen

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/16/2011 7:11 PM   
cmoulder


 

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Status: offline 		JLK,

That's what I got, the BVM Aeropoxy. Must be good because it sure ain't cheap!

Although I have the downloaded firewall template it looks as if there is still a ton of work to do because the V1 and V2 noses don't look the same. Seems there was sort of a flat shelf in the chin area of the cowl on V1 and just an open structure on V2. Also no rudder servo tray on V2 which complicates it for a composite virgin such as I.

Oh well, I am just reading through and looking at photos from all the composite build threads I can find so I don't make any major mistakes.


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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/16/2011 7:43 PM   
jlkonn



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Status: offline 		Bob,
The best thing I found about the Aeropoxy is it stays put.
Doesn't run while it's setting up.
JK

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/16/2011 7:59 PM   
cmoulder


 

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Bob,
I haven't started mine yet since I plan to install the new Pletty Advanced 30 and it is not yet available. I also need to order my elevator servos, which I'll do when the motor is available. However I did order BVM canopy hooks. I should get these in a couple of days, so I'll start work on the canopy as well as do what I can fabricating the spinner backplate spacer this weekend. I did purchase my charge box case this afternoon. I decided to purchase one of those aluminum boxes where the lid is split in two down the center and hinged on both sides (Harbor Freight). Since I have my power supplies and Celpro PL8 I'll work on the charge box now also.

Glen


Glen

Which elevator servos do you plan to use? The S9650's fit with a minimum of whittling of the plywood. The servo arm exit hole has to be opened up a fair amount, and would have to have been opened up even more without making a bend in the linkage. I chose the servo arm length that gave me a maximum throw of 14 degrees with full servo travel range (as recommended by some guy named Bryan Hebert ).

I will solder up a 4-wire servo extension for the 2 elevator servos, with one power, one ground and 2 signal.

I got to try out my charge box in the field about 10 days ago and it worked out very well. Can't tell you what a pleasure it is to have plenty of charging capacity to fly virtually non-stop all day and not have to worry about killing a car battery or having to re-charge a giant lead-acid battery later. But you will soon find out!

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/19/2011 12:06 AM   
cmoulder


 

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ORIGINAL: jlkonn

Bob,
The best thing I found about the Aeropoxy is it stays put.
Doesn't run while it's setting up.
JK


This stuff is GREAT!

The firewall was an awful lot of work as you guys know, with lots of figuring and futzing, but putting together all the advice from the various Sickle threads made it possible. What a relief it is well on the way to being done after spending 2 full afternoons getting to this point. Hope it's quicker next time!

The tip someone posted for transferring the motor bolt template to the firewall worked beautifully. I used some double-sided Scotch tape, a couple of tiny pieces on the end of the motor and then put a lot of tape on the firewall side. All bolts went in on the first try with no misalignment.

A question... After the Aeropoxy cures should I remove the motor and put another bead on the other side of the firewall? Seems like a good idea, or is it not necessary?

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/19/2011 12:20 AM   
jlkonn



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Status: offline 		"After the Aeropoxy cures should I remove the motor and put another bead on the other side of the firewall?"

Bob,
Yes, that's what I did.
I let the Aeropoxy cure for 24 hours then I very, very carefully removed the motor and ran a bead
around the front side of the firewall to fuse joint.
JLK

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/19/2011 2:24 AM   
can773



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Status: online 		Hi Bob,

Just an observation I had from the pictures, maybe you will do this anyway? You should have a backing ring, G10 glass sheet, or aluminum, something very hard, to distribute the head loads from the motor bolts and isolate the firewall from the heat in the bolts.

What I have found on the Pletty, and I am sure the Himax is the same, is that the bolts get hot during flight, and soften the composite firewalls. Over time they can become loose and fall out. While it has never happened to me, I had a friend have his motor rocket out the front of his plane never to be found again! I have personally had all but one bolt fall out, so I have been lucky

Just wanted to mention it in case you had not already thought about it.


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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/19/2011 4:04 AM   
cmoulder


 

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Status: offline 		Chad,

Yes, I have read about the need to reinforce the bolt holes and it is obvious just from moderately tightening down the bolts that the firewall material will crush easily. Already I can see how it would disintegrate in short order under actual flight loads.

My plan is to make a very stiff ply triangle made from 3 or 4 small sheets of 1/32" ply, drill the bolt pattern and then install the bolts with red Loctite and some large recessed washers supplied with the motor. I will post a photo when I do this and see what you experienced guys think about the installation.

Thanks much. Your observations are most appreciated.



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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/19/2011 2:03 PM   
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Status: offline 		Chad, do you think precaution is needed for ply/carbon fibre firewalls as well?

Colin.

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/19/2011 2:15 PM   
cmoulder


 

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''After the Aeropoxy cures should I remove the motor and put another bead on the other side of the firewall?''

Bob,
Yes, that's what I did.
I let the Aeropoxy cure for 24 hours then I very, very carefully removed the motor and ran a bead
around the front side of the firewall to fuse joint.
JLK


JLK,

Sorry, I have got to pay more attention... you did indeed mention this above.

Thanks for the repeat.

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/19/2011 2:18 PM   
can773



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Status: online 		Hi Colin

Yes, I use 1/4 lite ply and carbon, and have had the bolts get loose and always use a backing ring now or large dowels through the thickness where the bolts are which also works good.


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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/19/2011 3:29 PM   
cmoulder


 

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Status: offline 		Sickle fuse stiffness

When looking inside the fuse of V2 and comparing it to JLK's photos of V1 in the Electric F3A forum it is obvious that V2 does not have V1's fuselage "deck" that ran from the nose ring all the way down past the wing tube and provided the rudder servo mounting location. V2 also doesn't have the diagonal side braces in the nose area.

Just wondering if this means the fuse needs a little reinforcements at various locations to make it a bit more tortionally rigid, and if so where? What got me thinking about this is Mastertech's report of his canopy coming off easily, and I associated this with the possibility that the V2 fuse is not rigid enough.

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/19/2011 4:18 PM   
Mastertech



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Status: offline 		I've not found the fuse to be a problem, The canopy came off due soley to my inablity to get it fastened correctly.

Tim

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/19/2011 7:41 PM   
jlkonn



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Status: offline 		Bob,
Mups53 had a V1 and flies Masters.
I can't remember if he had it two seasons or one.
The plane lives on is flying with another contest flyer.
Mups53 did some extensive mods, removing lots of material in the nose, to make
weight.
Which he did!
He cut most of that diagonal bracing off the sides of the fuse up in the front part and a lot of material
off that deck.
I cut away alot in my V1 as well, although not as much as Mups, and I haven't had any problems.
A funny story though....
We moved this summer.
I rented a U-Haul van and packed, loaded and moved my hobby stuff myself.
Thank heavens!!!!
(but that's another story )
I had saved the shipping box the V1 came in and used it to pack some other models. When I removed some
of the wrapping material I had left in the box guess what I found in the bottom?
A crutch for the rear part of the fuse that would have run from the rudder servo to the stab area!

I didn't install it!
I didn't even see it until I had flown the plane for two years!
I'm leaving it out.
JLK

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/20/2011 2:39 AM   
shepga


 

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Status: offline 		Hey guys,
I received a bag of 12 flat control horns for the the control surface linkages. Seems to me I should only need 6 (2 for rudder, 1 for each elevator half and 1 for each aileron) is this correct? I have never worked with these before so I assume you just insert in the rectangular slot provided and epoxy right? Looks like the rudder control horns may need to be cut to length to avoid butting up against each other inside the rudder. Is this correct?

Bob,
I 'll be using Futaba BLS153 on the elevator. I still need to order them. When do you think you will be ready for your first flight?

Glen

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RE: Sickle (V-2) - 2/20/2011 3:22 AM   
cmoulder


 

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Status: offline 		Tim and JLK, thanks for the reassurances. Just want to make sure there's nothing I'm overlooking.

Glen, I'm actually working significantly slower than usual because of the new (for me!) materials and techniques, etc. The things that are slowing the process are getting the CF parts fabricated and installed, and I'm still looking forward to the battery hold-downs and the rudder servo deck, and the canopy should be a lot of fun. The firewall struck me as perhaps the most difficult part, which is why I did it first. But I think it will be ready to fly by the first day of Spring, which is 1 month from today!!

What time frame are you anticipating?

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