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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/10/2011 5:08 AM   
Leighcusack


 

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From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I tested the few props i have with the few motors i have and here is the data.
the only data i recorded was RPM, Current, Power. All other messurements were determined with these three values.

I would like your opions on where to go next.

the motor i had planned on putting in the new stryker was the turnigy.


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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/10/2011 5:11 AM   
Leighcusack


 

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Status: offline 		i dont think the pitch speed is right
i used this to work it out

RPM*Prop Pitch*60/63360*0.7 - the 0.7 was for a 30% loss.

can anyone confirm the right equation?


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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/13/2011 8:52 AM   
moparmyway


 

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Status: offline 		Pitch speed equation:

(RPM * Pitch) / 1056

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/13/2011 11:44 AM   
Leighcusack


 

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Thanks.

Thats the same equation but simplified and without the allowance for slip.

I ordered a higher kv motor so i can test smaller props.
smaller props spinning faster seem to be getting better efficiency

 



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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/16/2011 5:58 AM   
Gryphon


 

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Status: offline 		Leighcusack,

Prop Pitch speed is just prop pitch speed. By itself, you cannot use it to get flight speed.

The larger the prop, the less Excess pitch speed is needed to get to a certain speed. (% slippage is more with small props and gets worse at higher power and speeds for little props).

And you can not go by a certain % slippage. Things change with diameter and speed.


***You said: "smaller props spinning faster seem to be getting better efficiency"

I doubt you can prove it, because we have proved larger props being more efficient at higher speeds....and small props at much higher Watts may never reach the flight speeds possible with larger props with less Watts.

Put a few thousand Watts in 4" prop and lets see if it ever takes the Stryker to 140-150MPH range in level flight without tail wind, and without diving.....stay at full throttle as long as you wish and get a nice long run, it will not help you. It cannot make enough thrust to overcome the drag of airframe.


Not many airframes have had as much testing done on it as this Stryker.

Save yourself time and money and ask for help.

Of course everyone is fully/very supportive of people enjoying their own research and design. All we ask is that you don't hand out advice till you have proven your theories.

Old days people flew on as little as maybe 45W, today 1400W-2100W range is being done on daily basis by some. Great many motors, and props have been tested.
Max speed is 204 MPH starting at roughly 6000W on ground, and dropping to about 5000W at max speed.


Have fun experimenting,

Note: A fun tool to learn from is MOTOCALC , free for first 30 days. It also shows you how numbers change with increase in speed. Other simulators do not show you. But there is no Stryker airframe in it…..you can slap together something that makes your selected components match your own Stryker’s speed, then experiment with changing power systems.
It can not get anywhere as good as just asking for help on 1000W, 2000+W power systems.

Enjoy,

Gryphon

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/16/2011 11:34 AM   
Leighcusack


 

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wow.. the famous Gryphon,

for the past few weeks i have been reading a lot of info about the Stryker on this forum.
I can say that a lot of the more helpful information has come from your posts.

Nice to finally say hello.

well with that aside i really think you have taken my comment far too seriously.
In my first post i stated that i had copied someone elses setup with 4 cells, a 2050kv motor and 7*7 prop.
I haven’t been able to get a 7*7 prop yet so i took the props i already had and tested those with the motor.

I started to believe i was heading in the wrong direction as the more i read in the later editions of 'the dark side' people were using smaller props on faster turning motors.

I have only posted my experiences as i am only following after the people that have already posted in this thread.

I  have no need to re-invent the wheel so to speak. I just want to enjoy a faster Stryker then the stock F27Q.

100mph sounded like a good start, but we will see how quick i get addicted to speed.

So now that we understand each other what’s the best way to move forward?

i have two suitable motors that i purchased just for this aircraft.
A Turnigy 480L V-spec Inrunner 2150kv
A Turnigy 2835-2350 Outrunner 2350kv

I can run either 3 or 4 cell setups.

btw the purpose of the tests was to give you guys here some information on the motors. In previous posts you stated that test data is helpful.(I don’t remember the exact wording so don’t go offensive on me). I’m still getting a grasp on prop tuning as i have only run recommended setups to date on my models.

Thanks for your help.

 

 



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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/16/2011 11:41 AM   
Leighcusack


 

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Status: offline 		I just re-read my previous post and be no means was it meant as an attack at anyone.

just trying to set everything straight.

I first posted on here because of the crazy work that was being done to the Stryker and want to get in on the action.

The field i fly at is mainly older guys that are happy flying the standard circuit. Anything different really spins some of them out.
I cant wait till they seem the improved Stryker in action.

cheers


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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/18/2011 1:42 AM   
moparmyway


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leighcusack

what’s the best way to move forward?

i have two suitable motors that i purchased just for this aircraft.
A Turnigy 480L V-spec Inrunner 2150kv
A Turnigy 2835-2350 Outrunner 2350kv

I can run either 3 or 4 cell setups.


The best way to move forward is to use an ESC or a data recorder to verify the kv of each motor.
There are tons of reviews and data showing that the kv of each motor may vary +/- 600 in eithor direction.
Those motors are inexpensive and not that reliable, so before anyone tells you what prop to run, and how many cells to use, its best to get us your actual kv's for those 2 motors

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/19/2011 2:30 AM   
Gryphon


 

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Status: offline 		Hi there Leighcusack,

Welcome to the thread.
Just so you know, I didn't think bad of your post or was offended or anything.

I just wanted to make sure people know that larger props are more efficient and that pitch speed is not always a great indicator of speed....often it is not even usable.

People make Doppler runs, or radar runs on days with no wind and without diving to measure their speed.
If there is wind, during same flight they also make passes from opposing direction and then average both speeds to cancel the wind.

There are lots of Stryker experts around who can help answer any questions or to guide you in your speed quest.
I don't post that often anymore....been at it too many years.
Furthermore many of my buddies have well surpassed me in their building skills, and flying capabilities.
I'm sure they can/will help.

Most stay away from hobby king motors but more and more of them (even me) are opting to do their research with batteries from there strictly due to price.
Motor and ESC.....well not so much.
You will save yourself time and money by opting for good parts....hard to see it now, but you will one day.

At every chance I get, I will try to steer people away from those motors.
If you got them...go for it...do as you wish.

The data will "NOT" be so useful to others in this thread because of other things I just posted above.
You also saw commends from Mopar.

I can think of couple guys who would probably be willing to work with you to find the best prop in a couple/few posts.

It would really help you to know the KV if you want to push the limits.

If you want to dig into it deep, consider starting a thread in your personal blog.

Getting to 90+ MPH to match F27Q speeds will not be very hard.
You probably have to run smaller props.

At low speeds the small props are not that inefficient.
As speeds rise, larger props will be needed and it will not take long that you would need to upgrade the motor.


Have fun, and good luck.

Gryphon

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/19/2011 3:02 AM   
Leighcusack


 

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From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Thanks both of you for your comments.

The motors were cheap and if i have to spend money to get a decent motor i will.
I'm still restricted to 3 or 4 cell packs as thats what i have and use.
I will consider running packs in series on future strykers. At least i can still use the pack in other aircraft.

Over the weekend i cut and glued the trailing edge. i have 1.5 inch elevons to go on next and also have the carbon rod ready for installation.
I'm still waiting for my rccustom motor mount.
I also have to build the covers for the battery bay & ESC/receiver. I have a few ideas and will post pics once complete.

I will spend some time re-reading the thread and will try and get kv ratings for the two motors.

Thanks guys



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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/27/2011 10:46 PM   
arcticflyer


 

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Status: offline 		Hey what are you guys up to now (top speed)? I am getting ready to run my mouth on another forum and I want to be accurate.
Miss you guys but have been side tracked by pylon stuff!

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/30/2011 3:16 AM   
Gryphon


 

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Status: offline 		arcticflyer,


Read Murdo's post # 778, 3 pages back:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10026168/mpage_32/key_/tm.htm


p.s. It might have started at 6000W before unloading, you can check with him.
Furthermore, they may be a 1500+W increase to get the level flight speed closer to 220/220+ MPH (in a few months).

Gryphon

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/30/2011 9:53 AM   
moparmyway


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: arcticflyer

Hey what are you guys up to now (top speed)? I am getting ready to run my mouth on another forum and I want to be accurate.
Miss you guys but have been side tracked by pylon stuff!


The fastest stock body Stryker, one that still has its airbrakes, is mine @ 185mph

The fastest modified body Stryker, one that has had its airbrakes cut off, is Murdo @ 204mph



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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 12/30/2011 12:22 PM   
arcticflyer


 

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Status: offline 		I knew you guys were around 200...that's great!....Thanks Mopar and Gryphon for the PM!

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 1/2/2012 5:30 PM   
joe1


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Everyone :=}
I have not been on here for a very long time, anyways Happy New Years to everyone and may it be a better one :=} .
Gryphon, I thank you for your kind reply to my P.M. the info is just what I needed. Happy New Year :=}

Joe

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 1/4/2012 12:41 AM   
Rimripper


 

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From: Falun, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hey it is alive in here still!!!

Boy the weather is really looking good for the Ripper!!just picked up some cloth and getting ready to build another,gonna make it lite......for th e 16/40/2EC Mega,and the 16/30/1.5SEC.

Its gonna be a good year!!!!!

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 1/7/2012 7:24 PM   
moparmyway


 

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Status: offline 		Doing a 2 stick lightweight Stryker "C" build. Going to start with taped hinges, thinking of my T-Rex 450 blades as elevons, Custom RC Parts mount, MEGA 16-25-2, ICE Light 75 (BEC set to 6.0 volts), AR7000, HS5245mg servos with blue aluminum arms, SPM1600 ( http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPM1600 ), and a Castle Connect harness. 2-56 rods and she has been painted, heated, and painted again with some strengthened epoxy.

Should have some gaffers tape on the leading edges and nose, possibly some taped hinges with the gaffers tape as well.

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 1/9/2012 11:04 PM   
moparmyway


 

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Status: offline 		AUW is 38 oz with 3s2200 batts and the CG is on the spot in the holds. Switched to the ARC 28-38-3 with the flimsy 3.2mm shaft and an APC 7x4SF prop. Pulls about 40 amps with the 3s2200 pack 50% discharged (static).

AR7000
SPM1600
ICE Light 75
HS5245mg with blue arms
2-56 hardware
Stock elevons (Greatly re-enforced)
Custom RC Parts motor mount
"Painted epoxy"


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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 1/17/2012 2:27 AM   
jaime.mi


 

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From: Lake Worth, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Hey guys, I have been involved in different projects for a while. I set my Stryker a side after the Sapac smoked. The economy this year has not allowed for Mega replacement. Recently a fellow flyer gave me some motors he was not using. I think the best one is a HET Typhoon 2W-23 has 2950 KV claiming 850 watts on 5 cells @ 75 amps. I do not too much about this motor, I have a CC Ice 100. I ordered the nice motor mount you guys are using. So, I am pretty psyched to get back on the dark side. I would appreciate any feed back since I have very little experience with this motor. It is designed for a 70 mm EDF so I was thinking of starting with a 6 x 4 prop. Any thoughts?

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 1/17/2012 11:29 PM   
chippedprop


 

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From: Spartanburg, SC, USA
Status: offline 		Hey guys, I have been involved in different projects for a while. I set my Stryker a side after the Sapac smoked. The economy this year has not allowed for Mega replacement. Recently a fellow flyer gave me some motors he was not using. I think the best one is a HET Typhoon 2W-23 has 2950 KV claiming 850 watts on 5 cells @ 75 amps. I do not too much about this motor, I have a CC Ice 100. I ordered the nice motor mount you guys are using. So, I am pretty psyched to get back on the dark side. I would appreciate any feed back since I have very little experience with this motor. It is designed for a 70 mm EDF so I was thinking of starting with a 6 x 4 prop. Any thoughts
**************************************************************************************************************************************************************

I have used HET for many years and they make a great motor ....6x4 would be a great place to start, 

MAKE SURE YOU USE A WATT METER!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can not stress watt meter enough. DO not run it long on the ground. HET will make more amps then stated
The SAPAC I have will  make over 1000 watts on a 6x4 on 4 cells.

WATT METER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GET ONE TODAY>>>>>>>IT WILL SAVE YOU MONEY ON MOTORS IN THE LONG RUN!!!!!!!!!!

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PERFORMANCE IS EVERYTHING !!!
Everyone Can Do Something To Make A Difference !!!

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 1/18/2012 12:01 AM   
jaime.mi


 

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Status: offline 		Awesome! Many thanks for the input! The motor does have a big caution note in regards to running in the ground. I would not push it to its limit, I plan to keep 4 cells 55 C batteries, a 4000 probably. My watt meter is @ Astro Flight since I fried one side testing a crazy 90 mm. edf setup. If I can fall between 110 and 115 mph I will be tickled pink. I miss the scream of high KV's on a little prop!
Fly fast, take chances!


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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 1/20/2012 8:22 PM   
moparmyway


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jaime.mi

I miss the scream of high KV's on a little prop!
Fly fast, take chances!



2950 kv and 4 cells ??

It might be fun for you to try your intended 4 cell setup and the 6x4 Sport prop, then switch over to a 3 cell with an APC 6.5x6 or an APC 6.5x6.5 pylon prop and weigh out the differences to yourself as you fly it.


I had to remove the 28-38-3 due to the windings getting too hot with the 7x5E prop, plus I wasnt happy at all with its 3 cell performance.
Popcorn 2 now has a MEGA 16-25-2ec with an APC 7x4 Sport prop. The ICE Light 75 is still plenty for some 7x5 Sport flights if I wish (at 100 mph), and I can allways run some of my 3s2650(45/90) batts with a 7x6 Sport for even faster flights.

With the 3s2200(45/90), ICE Light 75, MEGA 16-25-2ec, and a 7x4 Sport prop, AUW is 40oz on the dot, and the CG is spot on in the dots thanks to about 4oz of gaffers tape. 80mph with the 7x4

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 1/24/2012 1:19 AM   
Rimripper


 

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From: Falun, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Looks like Popcorn 2 is a real all round fun flying stryker!!

I dug some smaller tubes into a fuse yesterday,added 1 trailing edge  today.

I am going to glass cloth this stryker for the rest of the strength,my last build was strong and gave me fast speeds,but Im hopeing to cut weight out of this diet to achieve higher speeds with.

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 1/26/2012 1:13 AM   
moparmyway


 

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Status: offline 		Pictures Rim ...........................
Lets see some pictures posted of the build.
Details man ...................... dudes want your details showing how you are gunna glass it.
I know your builds come out sweeeeeeeeett !!!
Show the rest here all of your accomplished build techinques !!!!

You have to try to beat a 40oz day to day reliable, lightweight, superstiff, stock elevon 110mph bullet (with a 7x6 prop).

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RE: F27 Stryker Part 9: Crazy DARK SIDE - Beginners to ... - 1/28/2012 3:20 PM   
chippedprop


 

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From: Spartanburg, SC, USA
Status: offline 		I'll start on the new Stryker over the next couple of weeks........Had a couples of delays, but I think time wise I'll be ready.

If any of you guys will be in the Toledo area  April 13th, 14th, & 15th, 2012 ..... I will be attending and working the Weak Signals RC Show.

I will be in the Ohio Model Products booth(s)  I'll post a reminder as the time approaches.

On a diff. note I went to the Frosty Dogs fly in at the Joe Nall site in January.....weather was Ok not stupid cold..little windy..had about 75 pilots on site. Flew the current Super Stryker with the SAPAC 3100 kv 4mm on 4 cells and APC 6x4 sport prop.  I did not shoot any vid. as the temps were in the low 40's which the camera does not like.  Flew it 3-4 times and had a number of people checking out the foam Stryker running in the 110-120 mph range...plus you can do full deflection turns with this plane at WOT.....that really is what I like about this design.
Great time and ZERO crashes......flying lessions are really helping out.
I'll post more later
Cp

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