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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 4:53 AM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		I have not seen any sand in my two stroke tanks or gas cans


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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 5:03 AM   
summerwind


 

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Status: offline 		well i'll buy a gallon and check it out.
they probably cleaned up their act as it was a very wellknown fact out here in CA.
i'm open to trying whatever you guys say works, but i still have my dobts about Pennyzoil

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 5:11 AM   
rcplanenut


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JNorton

I'll say one more thing TOM did not say MC-1 was bad oil only that he would not run it at 50:1 - 32:1 would be a different story.
John

Ok, so now I am really confused because which expert do I listen to Bel-ray company recommends 50:1, I never said I was running it at 32:1
I'll say again, facts would be nice, but please I've heard enough opinions

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 5:17 AM   
Tired Old Man


 

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Status: offline 		My experience with Bel Ray products? Both of them have generated over 100,000 flight hours of hard data. Personally I have close to 2,000 flight hours with the stuff, and about equal that for ground running.

I never said the products were bad, however I do know that an engine run under a heavy load at temps from 140C to 160C will develop carbon blocked exhaust ports and stuck rings after a period of time with lean ratios. If I was using them in my engines I would not go to the lean side of the recommendations. Then again, I wouldn't intentionally run my engines above 150C, but the vast majority of people don't have any idea what their engines temp out in the air. Nor can a fair number of them accurately tune an engine, if they tuned it at all.

That wasn't meant to be insulting to anyone, just the straight truth. What it does imply is that a great many people use oil ratios without knowing what those ratios, or the oil itself, might do or not do. Their limited experience provides them with limited information to draw from, and the "pass down" info, or folk lore if you will, may not be as accurate as they hope it to be. The operative word in the last sentence was "hope". I don't deal in hope, I work with known data obtained over hundreds of thousands of hours of flight data collected. Not to mention lab generated hours obtained in ground run testing. That I can't relate the data is a shame, but it was collected using private dollars so it's not publically disseminated. However, I do learn what works and what works best and get to transfer that knowledge to my own engines.

I am neither a gas newbie nor an RC neophyte.

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 5:18 AM   
rcplanenut


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: summerwind

OK now there's another product that i stay away from and here's why.
when i started riding sport bikes back in the 80's a bud told me never buy Shell gas as it had sand and other dirt in it.
thought it was BS until i had to fill up with Shell once.
got home and looked inside the tank and there it was.......looked like a beach at the bottom and it never had sand in there before.
draining and cleaning that stuff out was no picnic, but i have stayed away from it ever since.

now if Shell has cleaned up there act then maybe things have changed for the better and i won't mind given their stuff a try.
funny thing is, once things become reallity for the user instead of rumor, the user puts up that defensive wall real quick......hard to break it down.
i suspect a lot of the oil arguements on here are because of past experiences too

I used to work at a gas station (Standard) now owned by BP. The owner of the station would mix water into the tanks.

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 5:29 AM   
rcplanenut


 

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Status: offline 		Ok, I don't mean to be a pain but are you talking about running a leaner gas/oil mix (for example 80:1) or are you warning against running the gas/air mixture too lean.
Bel-ray recommends 50:1 but says it can be run between 50:1 and 80:1
I've been running this mix for a few years, but It could also be that I have been lucky. You have a valid point with the "folk lore"

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 6:57 AM   
Tired Old Man


 

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Status: offline 		We are talking about oil, so the discussion refers to oil/fuel ratios, not fuel/air. Less oil equates to a leaner oil mix.

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 9:48 AM   
flyinjrc74


 

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Status: offline 		Use pennzoil 2 cycle 32:1 mix with 87 octane and you will be fine. I don't care to run anything with a 50:1 mix, too little oil!!!

The DLE 30 does not have a hardened sleeve.... Great engine with loads of power for the little that it weighs. I run a 20" APC competition prop and it swings it with ease! Enjoy it and don't seize it up with a 50:1 mix, manual recommends a 30:1 mix so i really do not know why these guys would run 50:1 mix or even suggest it???

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 10:49 AM   
karl hibbs



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Status: offline 		Ya but what grade of gas do you use......?

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 4:19 PM   
rcplanenut


 

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Status: offline 		So what your saying is that if I follow the manufactures recommended mix ratio of 50:1 I should have no problems using MC-1

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 5:49 PM   
Tired Old Man


 

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Status: offline 		I would use a little more and not run a lean air/fuel ratio. IOW, keep it cool..

Regarding "hardened sleeves". None of our engines are sleeved. None of them run bare cast cylinders. All of them use a chrome plated (type and quality level varies) cylinder wall. If they did not they would not last very long with an iron or steel ring grinding away at a much softer metal.

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 6:02 PM   
robopgenorth


 

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I have little faith in all the anecdotal accounts of what is best and highly appreciate your input based on massive experience and empirical findings.

You are helping more prople than you may realize.

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 6:09 PM   
summerwind


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: robopgenorth

T.O.M.

I have little faith in all the anecdotal accounts of what is best and highly appreciate your input based on massive experience and empirical findings.

You are helping more prople than you may realize.


Ditto.........................and no more Amsoil in my vocabulary

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 6:12 PM   
flyinjrc74


 

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Status: offline 		87 octane from Shell.

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 6:17 PM   
summerwind


 

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ORIGINAL: flyinjrc74

87 octane from Shell.


why Shell?..................or is that just a typical pun?

< Message edited by summerwind -- 10/22/2010 6:55 PM >

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 7:35 PM   
skillet92


 

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Status: offline 		Well I have a Evolution 35gt, G-20, G-38, DL 50, DL 30, and DL20. Had a SPE40 and a G-26. After break in at 32-1 I run all mine at 40-1! Pennzoil Air Cooled. I have never had a problem or issue out of any of them. Also My Stihl 4matic weedeater gets the same mixture and it runs great also.
PS I also use 87 octane!


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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 7:50 PM   
summerwind


 

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Status: offline 		the mention of 87 octane has me baffled............DLE 30 instructions clearly say to use 93 octane (87 will suffice) so what does one go by?

i see why TOM gets annoyed at these threads though as people state opinions, not facts.

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 7:55 PM   
Tired Old Man


 

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Status: offline 		Regarding 87 octane gas.

Agreed, for most engines that octane rating is perfect. However, our consumer friendly government just approved an increase in the amount of permitted ethanol in gasoline. The one grade certain to get that increase will be 87 octane. Point being to read the labels on the gas pumps to see what percentage of ethanol is in the gas. Above 10% and you might consider getting gas elsewhere or using premium instead.

The small engine industry fought this rule change vigorously, but the corn farmers and ecologists won the battle. Now your food prices will rise accordingly with the reduction in corn available for food due to fuel conversion.

Back to oils. Most oils work fine in our engines IF you use enough of it. WalMart oil is pretty good stuff at 32-1 Cleaning the bottom of a plane should not be the factor determining how much oil you use. Great for you and the paper towel supply but both are cheap compared to buying engines a lot more frequently. Or airplanes because a ring just stuck, the engine lost power, and you were in a low hover, tail 2 feet off the ground when that happened. Oil quantities also improve the "tuneability" of engines. Too little and ring seals are degraded, making engines run inconsistently. Some oils are not so good, but that subject usually starts a very spirited discussion.

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 9:31 PM   
rcplanenut


 

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Status: offline 		Thank You T.O.M.
You have been a great help to me and probably several other people reading these posts.

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 9:34 PM   
summerwind


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rcplanenut

Thank You T.O.M.
You have been a great help to me and probably several other people reading these posts.


NAH, post number 68 was all the info i think any of us needed......all the facts are right there

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 10:41 PM   
flyinjrc74


 

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Status: offline 		That is where I fill up my cans for my boats, lawn mower, weedwhacker etc... I saw in a earlier post where someone filled at Shell and had sand in the tank? We dont have that problem here in Niles, only thing I know of is the owner getting pinched a couple of times by Weights and Measures for tampering with the pumps for his personal gain. Not sure how that worked out after fines but they are still selling sand free gasoline...

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/22/2010 10:44 PM   
Tired Old Man


 

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Status: offline 		Compression ratio dictates the required octane level. High compression engines need more octane. Low compression the opposite. octane determines the rate of fuel burn. You don't want a high compression engine to generate a lot of heat during the compression process that generates self detonation of the fuel. There are other factors like squish dimensions, combustion chamber shape, shpae of the piston relative to the squish, port overlap, and port edge radius but I'll not go into any of that.

Too much octane in a low compression retards the rate of combustion. Too little in a high compression generates uncontrolled combustion. The rate of spread in the flame front is everything in power and temperature management. I haven't seen a high compression DLE but 93 octane would not be so high as to cause a significant power loss if used in a lower compression engine. You need about 80 octane minimum in our engines. European and BME engines need 93 octane. Less than that sets the stage for detonation. Both ambient and engine temperatures contribute to the initiation of detonation. Too much heat and away you go. Hot days are worse than cold days.

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/23/2010 12:27 AM   
Antique



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Status: offline 		None of our engines ?? Ever look inside an MVVS ?
We're making a new 80cc race engine using MVVS 40 SLEEVES in custom CNC cylnders, GT 80 crank, custom pistons and removeable cylinder heads...In a custom CNC reed valve case with a DA100 reed valve...12,000 + rpm, over 200 mph....Already been there with V1 and V2 using stock GT80 cylinders and pistons...V3 will destroy the competition...And it will be DYNO tested on our very own new dyno...Made in Flagstaff, Arizona, USA, Baby [>:]
Come on back, Pat, I'll show you the most amazing "home" shop you ever saw....

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/23/2010 12:33 AM   
Tired Old Man


 

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Status: offline 		Sorry, all but one. I limited this to production engines since I doubt everyone will be lining up to buy one of the new, custom built, race engines. You have to remember that 80% of the people are using Chinese engines these days, and I guarantee none of them have a sleeve. It would cost more. Heaven forbid they elect to shave a few pennies and run a straight, unlined cylinder.

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RE: Oil mix ratio for DLE engines - 10/23/2010 3:58 AM   
Antique



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Status: offline 		These will not be for sale..Just trying to illustrate the fact that sleeved two stroke gassers are common...Surprised Pe Reivers hasn't said something..

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