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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/12/2011 11:48 AM   
rcguy!



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WOW! Ya puttin' in a P200? That alum mount is way too "stout" Bend some 1.5mm alli and be done with it.

Dave

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/12/2011 5:57 PM   
r 3


 

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< Message edited by r 3 -- 11/9/2011 9:37 AM >

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/18/2011 4:13 PM   
r 3


 

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< Message edited by r 3 -- 11/9/2011 9:38 AM >

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/18/2011 5:50 PM   
joeflyer



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I was concerned after looking at your pictures in post #1548. It looks like you have taken a notoriously weak section of the fuse and made it significantly weaker. The motor mount section of the fuse is poorly engineered and weak enough that it will crack at the 90 degree corner at the front of the shelf where the mount gets attached. Unfortunately the wood inside the shelf stops right at that corner resulting in the fiberglass sides being the only thing holding it up. If you read the Falcon 120 thread you'll see that a number of guys had it crack there. My Falcon 120 was fine for about 35 flights, then the first time I bounced a landing it cracked there. It's a shame that Henry copied that poor design instead of fixing it for the Tornado. That piece of wood he supplies is an attempt to address the issue, but I doubt it's very effective.

If you read the Falcon 120 thread you'll see that a number of us have reinforced that area with carbon fiber rods or hardwood to span that weak corner. After mine cracked I added 1/2 X 3/4 inch hardwood that extends about 6 inches into the fuse and is firmly attached to formers I added back there. I suggest that you do something similar to yours. See pictures.

Additionally this plane is naturally very nose heavy and it's best to mount the engine and all equipment as far rearward as possible. If you leave the engine as in your pictures you will most likely have to put your batteries and some additional weight in the rear to balance it. You can see from my pictures that my Wren SS is mounted further back than yours. My batteries are in the mid cockpit area to achieve balance on the recommended CG.

Just trying to be helpful, not critical.

Joe

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/18/2011 6:45 PM   
r 3


 

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< Message edited by r 3 -- 11/9/2011 9:38 AM >

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/18/2011 6:51 PM   
megafly


 

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And the battries inside.



But I changed my batteries a litle to rear, it was a bit noose heavy.

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/18/2011 7:56 PM   
joeflyer



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Status: offline 		You won't crack it pulling high G's. On a hard landing the weight of the engine coming down on the back of the fuse is what will cause it to crack. You really need something that spans that weak corner and lets the beefier part of the rear fuse support the engine weight.

Good luck,
Joe

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/18/2011 8:35 PM   
Modellbau USA



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Well first of all the motor mount is heavily reinforced and will not break, trust I have tried. As for the modifications that have been done to the tail I really don't like what I see. It looks like that will break off. Just my two cents. 
 
As for the wing and dihedral being wrong and so on. Well all I can tell you it's builders error. I am 100% sure of it. I have had about 5 people do exactly what you are describing and have exactly the same problem. 2 listened and fixed there problem and the others swore to me the airplane was wrong. So I will extended the same thing to you as I did to them. Send the plane back to me if when we get it its wrong I will pay for all the shipping and give you $100. If we put it together and the airplane fits fine you pay for all the shipping and you give me 100% for wasting my time. We have made 400+ of the tornados on the last batch and if one is wrong all of them are bad. That's how mass production works. If you would like please call me and I can explain to you what to do. 



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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/18/2011 9:09 PM   
dmscpu



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Modellbau USA

Well first of all the motor mount is heavily reinforced and will not break, trust I have tried. As for the modifications that have been done to the tail I really don't like what I see. It looks like that will break off. Just my two cents. 




Henry,

I found if you use the K80 and a FOD screen the turbine will not fit on the mount, so some sort of cutout is required or raise the turbine high on the mount.
So I cut mine and plan on filling the void with epoxy and fiberglass but in a concave shape as to fill the hole and add strength back in. On that note
What type ( Enamel ) of paint and color? so that I may match it. Otherwise I guess I can use black.

Thanks

Mike


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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/18/2011 10:42 PM   
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quote:

Unfortunately the wood inside the shelf stops right at that corner resulting in the fiberglass sides being the only thing holding it up.


I converted a smaller Bobcat 50 to turbine & it had the same weak spot on the engine shelf & it had started to crack from the previous owner's hard landings. I could not see any way to fit reinforcing through the piece of timber in the shelf so I fitted aluminium supports under the fuselage. - John.

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/19/2011 8:41 AM   
ausfester


 

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Status: offline 		Does anyone know the part number for the springair struts?
My rear left strut needs replacing.

Henry can you provide replacements or should we speak with SpringAir directly?
If anyone has a set or spare please let me know as ild be very interested in purchasing one second hand or new

< Message edited by ausfester -- 10/20/2011 9:23 AM >

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/22/2011 12:05 AM   
Dblex


 

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Status: offline 		Ok guys...

My Hitec 225's are about 1/4in too tall in the elevator servo slots......

Lets see your mods!

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/22/2011 12:23 AM   
dmscpu



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dblex

Ok guys...

My Hitec 225's are about 1/4in too tall in the elevator servo slots......

Lets see your mods!


Uhh 1/4" plywood......

That's what I used and use the screws that came with the servos.

Mike


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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/22/2011 12:25 AM   
Boomerang1



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Status: offline 		If your servos are as big as your font I'm not surprised they won't fit! - John.

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/22/2011 12:29 AM   
Dblex


 

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quote:

If your servos are as big as your font I'm not surprised they won't fit! - John.


Thats what she said John....LMAO


I figured I would spice things up on a Friday, finally got time to start up again on my build! And my blackberry isnt blowing up with Hate posts! So Party time to build!

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/22/2011 12:31 AM   
Jetfan20


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dblex

quote:

If your servos are as big as your font I'm not surprised they won't fit! - John.


Thats what she said John....LMAO


I figured I would spice things up on a Friday, finally got time to start up again on my build! And my blackberry isnt blowing up with Hate posts! So Party time to build!


I Promise that's not what she said...lol thats what they make us think. Have fun building!!!! Which turbine are you running in yours?

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/22/2011 3:30 AM   
Dieselman1220



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quote:

ORIGINAL: dmscpu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dblex

Ok guys...

My Hitec 225's are about 1/4in too tall in the elevator servo slots......

Lets see your mods!


Uhh 1/4'' plywood......

That's what I used and use the screws that came with the servos.

Mike


+1 I used 5645s on my rudders


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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/22/2011 9:43 AM   
r 3


 

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< Message edited by r 3 -- 11/9/2011 9:39 AM >

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/22/2011 5:42 PM   
r 3


 

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< Message edited by r 3 -- 11/9/2011 9:39 AM >

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/22/2011 6:46 PM   
Dieselman1220



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Status: offline 		Another successful Tornado maiden today. Mine is powered by an AMT mercury (AMT180) A slightly heavier and thirstier engine than the P70s and K80s most people are using. Even with my dual 2700MAH 6.0V NIMH packs and 2200 lipo in front of the tray she was still
a little tail heavy. she took 6 oz to balance out at the 12.5" recomended CG however she seemed a little nose heavy in flight , needed quite a bit of up trim and took about a quarter stick down to hold inverted level. Where is everyone else balancing theirs? I may take 2 oz out.
Anyway Fired up my airstart Mercury ran her up and and the runway a few times checking steering and brakes lined her up took a deep breath and nailed the throttle she was off in probably 100ft. She needed about 6-8 clicks of up trim and maybe 2 or 3 of right aileron
and she was flying hands off. Mine seemed to be dancing around a bit but that may have been from the 15-20MPH breeze today. first landing came in I thought i was pretty slow enough i went to give her just a bit of a flare right as she touch down and she hopped up about 3ft in the air and went another 30-40ft before she settled down again. got on the brakes and she was stopped within 100ft.

Second flight I rung her out a little more really a great flying plane did some slow flight, saw how slow she could get but when I came in for landing I got a little to slow and stalled her about 5 ft off the deck. she dropped flat and ripped out the left main. (I was expecting to rip the gear out anyway) to give an idea how slow I was she probably only skid about 6-8ft before stopping. So yes my fault bad landing, however upon inspection the rear rail broke out cleanly very little glue and it looks like they used CA to glue it. Anyway Im not surprised I was expecting it to happen typical chineese ARF or S American whatever I could care less where its built. Its still an amazing value of an airplane, and Henrys great support is a great bonus.

Speaking of value here is my total investment

Airframe/Struts $815
Used AMT 180-I payed $700
Misc parts and accessories $60 and thats a High estimate
Servos were all 5645s and
5625s I had already along with
Savox servos for the elevator I
did have to buy however the total
for servos if new is $500
BVM smooth Stop $100
Batteries $75

Grand total $2250

Amazing Value for this kind of Jet I went over my Budget by $250 I was really trying to keep it under $2k I guess technically i did since I only had to buy 2 servos which cost me $120 I had the rest of them lying around.
I guess I forgot to add the RX also a Futaba 6014HS which is $200 but I had it laying around also.

So my budget beater jet is a "great success" I have a feeling there will be several people at my club looking into jets now knowing you dont have to trade in your car to buy one.
GREAT JOB Modellbau and Henry what your doing is fantastic thanks for thinking about us "budget" jet pilots

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/24/2011 12:00 AM   
lenhard2007



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Status: online 		This is my first jet build so enjoy.
Any suggestion greatly helps, but please no bashing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft3aOHBRGCE

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/24/2011 12:47 AM   
Dieselman1220



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quote:

ORIGINAL: lenhard2007

This is my first jet build so enjoy.
Any suggestion greatly helps, but please no bashing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft3aOHBRGCE

Nice vid man, the horns are made out of a material called g-10 very strong very similar to carbon fiber.
I've heard to not use ball links on them though due to the possible twisting force that can weaken them over time.
Not sure though they seem plenty strong to handle it.
I used 4-40 full threaded rods also then I put a carbon fiber rod with a nut on each end to capture it, probably overkill
But defiantly much much stiffer and looks alot prettier too. I haven't noticed any issues with my tank moving I did have to trim the formers also. Mine is squeezed tightly between the formers and spar, I almost didn't even shoe goo it down but I figured I better.
Looking good bro, nothing too it, it's just an airplane with your typical chinese ARF issues.
Also I would just reinforce the gear blocks from the get go. I used hysol where I could to reinforce it also and I still ripped one out.
Not enough glue on the top side of the block which you cannot get to without removing the sheeting, and then the blocks are just a cheap soft balsa.

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/24/2011 12:53 AM   
Countryboy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: lenhard2007

This is my first jet build so enjoy.
Any suggestion greatly helps, but please no bashing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft3aOHBRGCE


"Tip"
Find a large zip-tie and cut the one end off and shrink wrap it to the inside edge of the steering cables. When the cables go slack, the zip-tie will spread the cables and keep the nose gear from getting tangled.

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/24/2011 12:53 AM   
lenhard2007



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Status: online 		well i guess ill just replace the wood blocks then with hardwood. rather do it now verse it do it on landing. Thank you

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RE: The new Tornado sport jet - 10/24/2011 3:23 AM   
Dieselman1220



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quote:

ORIGINAL: lenhard2007

well i guess ill just replace the wood blocks then with hardwood. rather do it now verse it do it on landing. Thank you

Yea I was thinking the same thing, but learn from my mistake

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