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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 2/11/2011 3:14 AM   
GraemeEllis



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Status: offline 		Metal fatigue was not very well understood at the time - at least they learned from it. The Comet 4s were much improved, but by that time Dehavilland had lost any market advantage.



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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 2/21/2011 7:45 AM   
TimT2000



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ORIGINAL: GraemeEllis

Hindenburg.



Do I need to say anything more?


Wow,, forgot about this one,, you win.

Tim



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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 3/25/2011 3:43 AM   
frisco2022


 

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 3/30/2011 1:12 PM   
Tripower455



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ORIGINAL: G4guy


I flew a Merlin IIIB for hundreds of hours. I have nothing of memories of great performance from this aircraft. 300kts at FL210. I didn't fly the long versions that most commuters flew, so I can't comment on them. But the IIIB was a great plane, except for the Gulfstreams that I have been flying for the last 24 years!


The little Merlin performed pretty well. The stretched versions, not so much. We had a Metro 2 where I worked in MX, (I never flew it), and it had a JATO bottle in the tail, to enhance single engine performance! It struggled to get off a 4200' runway, even with the water injection.

That thing was a hangar queen, and had some weird ADs in the time I was there.

The worst airplane I ever flew for any length of time was the BAE Jetstream. Built like a tank, with similar flying characteristics. At least it was underpowered! If I ever had to intentionally fly through a thunderstorm, I would choose to do it in a J-31.....




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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/2/2011 2:00 AM   
thailazer



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Status: offline 		How about any piston powered plane with a geared engine? Helio Couriers, now the Diamond DA42, and many other geared engine ships always seemed to have problems with the gearboxes. For some reason, pistons and gearboxes don't do well when they have to fly together.

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/11/2011 2:41 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: online 		They seem to work well on larger planes and helicoptors.  I think the geared Contenintel engines in C175's were basically the ones with problems.  And most of that were from pilots running the engine at too low a speed causing overheating problems.

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/12/2011 7:52 PM   
smacfe


 

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Status: offline 		Like most aircraft, if you have enough training in them, you can overcome their shortcomings. Airplanes like the Martin B-26, Fokker DR-1, Vought Corsair F-4U, Lockeed F-104, et al, killed a lot of crews before they were understood, but went on to be notable airplanes with outstanding histories in the hands of those who received the appropriate training. Another more recent example is the Mitsubishi MU-2. While it is responsible for killing 330 people (and counting), it has been the most successful airplane for postwar Japan. The airplane is an amazing performer and an absolute delight to fly, but when things start to go wrong, there is little time or tolerance for indecision about procedures.
Scott



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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/13/2011 2:00 AM   
thailazer



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Status: offline 		Scott... What is it about the MU-2 that has made it such a high strung plane? Complex systems or the fact that it develops high sink rates quickly? Even fueling that machine is not straight-forward, as you have to balance the fuel in each wing during fueling to avoid it tipping over due to its narrow gear. Like you said though, pilots love to fly it.

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/19/2011 9:29 PM   
collector1231



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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/20/2011 3:00 AM   
cutaway


 

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/20/2011 3:41 AM   
TimT2000



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ORIGINAL: cutaway

The BD-5 deserves a mention


Brings back memories,, I dreamed of building on of these in my youth
after seeing one fly at Sun-n-Fun.

Tim



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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/20/2011 3:47 AM   
thailazer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TimT2000


quote:

ORIGINAL: cutaway

The BD-5 deserves a mention


Brings back memories,, I dreamed of building on of these in my youth
after seeing one fly at Sun-n-Fun.

Tim



Tim.....I had the same thoughts about those memories and dreams. The BD-5 was never a production aircraft though, and its major drawback was Bede's inability to find a good power plant for it. Apparently the long wing version was quite a nice flying machine. They were quite the rage when they first appeared at Oshkosh as well.

Edit: Popular Science Article for a trip down memory lane..... http://www.bd5.com/PSBD5Text.htm

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/24/2011 3:26 PM   
eddieC



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How about any piston powered plane with a geared engine? Helio Couriers, now the Diamond DA42, and many other geared engine ships always seemed to have problems with the gearboxes.


Not that I'm aware of, other than when mishandled by the pilot. After about 3K in 421's, time in AC500s with GO-480s, DA42, never had a problem. I've seen a pilot destroy a GTSIO-520 in a 421 in just one flight by using the wrong RPM (yellow arc). That guy blamed everyone but himself. The Helio Courier was known as truly reliable. Why would they operate in rugged areas with anything but the most reliable powerplant?

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/24/2011 3:28 PM   
tim_ManUnited4eva


 

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Status: offline 		Help! Need some newbie advice..
I’m looking to buy an rc car for my 12 year old boy, and probably one for me too!
I have seen the Kyosho NEO and the Kyosho DMT brushless truck rc cars on PBM racing, my mate has recommended them from their ebay shop when he bought a helicopter a few weeks back.
I’ve never heard of brushless before, what is it?? I guess it’s a motor but seems a lot more money than other electric rc cars.
Any suggestions on fuel if I go for nitro? PBM seems to only stock Powerfuel by HPI I think but not sure on what percentage to use? There is a few options!

Thanks!

Tim

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/27/2011 1:34 AM   
smacfe


 

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Status: offline 		Thailazer,
Great tidbit about the fueling procedure on the Mu-2! A great example as to why you need to be fully trained to operate this airplane. A friend of mine who owns and flies one says that he treats every flight like a military mission, and thus has had great success with the airplane. He does say that the airplane with its very high wing loading, and old style de-icing boots is not for the slow witted in icing conditions, and that balancing fuel burn is critical. He also said that while parts are available, they take a long time to get, so there is a temptation to operate the plane in less than a fully airworthy condition. The Mu-2 is also pretty cheap relative to the performance it produces, and ends up being operated by people who tend to scrimp on maintenance and training expense. However, as my buddy is quick to point out, since 2006 when the FAA required enhanced training on the Mu-2, there have been only 2 fatal crashes of Mu-2's and 23 fatal crashes of King Airs, so things have improved.
Scott

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/27/2011 4:40 AM   
eddieC



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 there have been only 2 fatal crashes of Mu-2's and 23 fatal crashes of King Airs, so things have improved.


When one compares total aircraft losses since type inception (as opposed to since enhanced training only), and losses per miles flown, the MU-2 still has the poorer safety record by far.

To infer that somehow MU-2 pilots are better-prepared is misleading also. More aware of the unique risks they take may be more accurate.  Not much one can do to change the outcome when a blade or entire prop is slung in flight, which has happened more than once on the MU-2.

I will agree that the type attracts more than its share of cheap owners, though.



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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/27/2011 6:49 AM   
TimT2000



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quote:

ORIGINAL: thailazer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TimT2000


quote:

ORIGINAL: cutaway

The BD-5 deserves a mention


Brings back memories,, I dreamed of building on of these in my youth
after seeing one fly at Sun-n-Fun.

Tim



Tim.....I had the same thoughts about those memories and dreams. The BD-5 was never a production aircraft though, and its major drawback was Bede's inability to find a good power plant for it. Apparently the long wing version was quite a nice flying machine. They were quite the rage when they first appeared at Oshkosh as well.

Edit: Popular Science Article for a trip down memory lane..... http://www.bd5.com/PSBD5Text.htm


Hey thanks for the link!  Great stuff.  The last one I saw was a jet powered one that was just too cool.
Good power with smoke on!  I still want one.
cheers Tim



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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/28/2011 5:27 PM   
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Status: offline 		The original Pou-du-Ciel is said to fly fine as originally designed. There are plenty of examples on the net still being built and flown to this day. It is, after all, a motor scooter powered put-put and not meant to be a hot rod. The fellows in England who reduced the wing gap and overpowered it were the ones who induced the slot effect and resultant tuck. I have the original book with construction drawings but so far have only built and flown a few models, which incidentally, fly just fine.

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 4/28/2011 7:15 PM   
eddieC



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Status: offline 		Looking forward to flying my Stevens Aeromodel version of the PDC here. Haven't had the time for the maiden, and switched indoor venues.



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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 5/2/2011 4:38 AM   
alexcala



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Status: offline 		I looked up the Natter and it looks lile a cluster *$#@. But it might be something cool for Estes to pick up. I would not have crawled into that thing for any reason, may even have had a better chance with a firing squad.

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 5/2/2011 5:44 AM   
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Status: offline 		Sure was. Not to glamorize suicide missions but to rationalize them you have to try and understand the conditions existing at the time the Natter and Baka were conceived. We had air supremacy and were bombing their cities into dust. Their mothers and fathers, sisters , wives and children were being killed every day and every night. Blown to pieces, smashed to death under blown apart buildings and burned to death trapped under them just like they did to us at the beginning of the war. Now it was their turn but and we had the upper hand with better equipment and more of it. Their experienced pilots were mostly dead, the new guys were being massacred before they could even pay back their training. When they took off the probability was very good they would be killed before they could kill even one of us. In that atmosphere it is easy to rationalize ramming the enemy to at least take one of us when him. Patriotic fatalism mixed with rage and the desire for revenge is a very strong emotion. Remember the equipment was designed for a one way trip utilizing what little materials were left. The Natter was a surface to air missile guided by a human volunteer instead of electronics not yet sophisticated enough for the job. The Baka was an air to ground missile with the same human guidance system. Were they crazy? Those who have never experienced those strong emotions could probably make that case but as someone once remarked; courage doesn’t mean you’re not scared; it means you go anyway. After all, airmen on all sides resorted to ramming when they figured they weren’t going to make it back to at least take a few of the enemy with them. After all, for them, taking off toward the end of the war was tantamount to committing suicide anyway.

Dennis

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 5/3/2011 2:37 AM   
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Status: offline 		Great post Denoferth:
I recall that German POW pilots were asked to fly captured Natter aircraft and all firmly refused. Can't imagine why - looks like a relaxing aircraft aircraft to fly...


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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 5/3/2011 4:12 AM   
denoferth


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks GraemeEllis, I have fond memories of the Soo. Kincheloe AFB was my first posting after tech school in 1966.

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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 5/4/2011 3:38 PM   
GraemeEllis



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Status: offline 		Dennis - Good to hear from someone who has been to the Soo! We have an excellent aviation program at Sault College that I am applying to. The aircraft are always flying over our house - Zlins and Piper Seminoles. I can't wait! 

Another aircraft that I have found that would be considered terrible was the Tupolev Tu-22 "Blinder". Pilots often would refuse to fly it and many considered it "unflyable".  It had lots of landing accidents and horrible handling characteristics...

The Messerschmitt Me-210 was a disaster as well. They built almost 100 pre-production aircraft to sort out its stability issues. One thing that that led to many long term development problems was that each aircraft seemed to have different flying characteristics. One would remain stable while the other would crash. This went on for years and when they finally entered service, they had not rectified any of its vicious flying tendencies. As a result, pilots hated it. 


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RE: Worst Production Aircraft Of All Time - 5/6/2011 3:06 AM   
collector1231



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