quote:

ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

For evidence take a couple of those 645's and mount them on a piece of light ply. Make a long pointer by adding a length of anything to the servo arm that is aligned with the arm. Place a protractor against the side of the servo case, or somewhere the pointer can overlay the degree arc of the protractor. Now run the servo through end points and back to neutral again, over and over. Write down the numerous different degree positions. You can do that with any servo of any brand.

Of course there's an easier way for those that have them in planes already. Just move the control surfaces and note all the different places a surface ends up when the servos come back to neutral. You need to get to the top of the Hitec line before you achieve ''good'' centering but even then you won't match the centering and resolution of the upper end Futaba, Airtronics, and JR servos. Each brand has their strong points and one has to learn what they are and how they might benefot before making a servo selection. It's not just about ''the best'' but also about what will best suit the user and the application. Those are not always one and the same. BTW, the difference between a 5925 and a 5945 is the gearing. That's what establishes that difference in speed and torque between the two servos. The inner workings are identical.

I'm not going to add much more to this thread since it seems to be mostly newbies feeding false data to other newbies. I don't have a clue where some of the info in this thread originated, but a whole lot of it is pretty much useless and misleading. For those of you just getting into gas giants I'll suggest you talk to people that already fly tham and have been doing so for a looong time. Not too bright using people with as little or less experience than yourself as your source of product and operational info.

As for nylon gears...the 8411 was the servo of choice for TOC giant aircraft before the metal geared stuff came along. Many of the Comp Arf assembly manuals still note the use of an 8411 in their planes. The upper end before that was the 4721. Now if you want a high end plane, look at a Compy, Zlin, SebArt, or similar. That's the big boys folks. All servos wear and develop slop. Once you know anything about servos, or anything else mechanical, you understand there is no such thing as ''good forever''. Eventually everything wears out, with some faster than others. Then you have installation errors compounding the speed of wear, and many of you do quite well at wearing stuff out as fast as it can through poor installation and set up practices.

So Happy New Year and good luck. I'm heading back over to the big toys forums at a significantly more advanced site.

quote:

ORIGINAL: on_your_six

Interesting... I did not hear him say anything about doing any servo testing of any sort to arrive at that conclusion. I do not see centering accuracy specifications listed anywhere on any servos by any manufacturer. Any results you obtain with your method (which seems somewhat reasonable), are merely a random sample that may or may not represent ANY sort of statistical accuracy. To make such a statement which is derogatory towards a particular manufacturer... you (or he) should have more evidence. It would take a representative sample and a blind study to arrive at this conclusion. Everyone here has manufacturers preferences that shade, if not blind, their recognition of the truth. I am not saying you are wrong about your conclusions, just put up more than what has been mentioned here. I have never seen such a study of competing products. Further, you would have to test with various radios... as the radio could make a difference... one brand of servo might be better with a certain brand of radio... I just don't know.

While you always drag up your experience (which is considerable), the hobby changes quickly. The ''best'' choice a month ago may no longer be. This is especially true when it comes to electronics. Others have posted wonderful experiences with $3 micro servos in small helis... I have been using $9 servos with great results and have also used $50 and $90 servos.

Your condescending attitude towards differing opinions has been noted...the big boys might agree. If someone disagrees with you, it should not ding your ego one bit.

''If you listen more than you talk, you might hear something.''

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

For evidence take a couple of those 645's and mount them on a piece of light ply. Make a long pointer by adding a length of anything to the servo arm that is aligned with the arm. Place a protractor against the side of the servo case, or somewhere the pointer can overlay the degree arc of the protractor. Now run the servo through end points and back to neutral again, over and over. Write down the numerous different degree positions. You can do that with any servo of any brand.

Of course there's an easier way for those that have them in planes already. Just move the control surfaces and note all the different places a surface ends up when the servos come back to neutral. You need to get to the top of the Hitec line before you achieve ''good'' centering but even then you won't match the centering and resolution of the upper end Futaba, Airtronics, and JR servos. Each brand has their strong points and one has to learn what they are and how they might benefot before making a servo selection. It's not just about ''the best'' but also about what will best suit the user and the application. Those are not always one and the same. BTW, the difference between a 5925 and a 5945 is the gearing. That's what establishes that difference in speed and torque between the two servos. The inner workings are identical.

I'm not going to add much more to this thread since it seems to be mostly newbies feeding false data to other newbies. I don't have a clue where some of the info in this thread originated, but a whole lot of it is pretty much useless and misleading. For those of you just getting into gas giants I'll suggest you talk to people that already fly tham and have been doing so for a looong time. Not too bright using people with as little or less experience than yourself as your source of product and operational info.

As for nylon gears...the 8411 was the servo of choice for TOC giant aircraft before the metal geared stuff came along. Many of the Comp Arf assembly manuals still note the use of an 8411 in their planes. The upper end before that was the 4721. Now if you want a high end plane, look at a Compy, Zlin, SebArt, or similar. That's the big boys folks. All servos wear and develop slop. Once you know anything about servos, or anything else mechanical, you understand there is no such thing as ''good forever''. Eventually everything wears out, with some faster than others. Then you have installation errors compounding the speed of wear, and many of you do quite well at wearing stuff out as fast as it can through poor installation and set up practices.

So Happy New Year and good luck. I'm heading back over to the big toys forums at a significantly more advanced site.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

Tom,

My name is Pat and I've been in the RC part of the hobby for about 40 years now. Control line before that. I've come from having to cut all my own wood and using tissue for covering, to full composite uav's today. All I do anymore is engines but I've been seriously involved with all aspects of GS for a very long time. I've watched as digital servos first came about and participated in the use of the less reliable early versions. To minimize aircraft losses I had to learn what made each servo brand work better or worse than the next one. I think ARF's are great but I believe there's a lot to be gained for all if they got to build a real kit. I'm also one that believes people should have a go a gliders in order to learn about aerodynamics and energy management. Makes them better power flyers.

I've been around RCU for a long time and have assisted many with their entry into giant scale and gas engines. Used to do a lot of radio and servo set up stuff but that became more arguementative than engines. Helped a few manufacturers with improving their products or customer support methods along the way. Ran as fast as I could from supporting any particular ARF distributor (though I still have a favorite or three) because of extreme brand loyalties with people supporting other products. That should explain the post count.

I've been known to spend far more than I needed to in order to complete a plane to what I thought to be the highest levels of quality and reliability. In performing that process I've learned that using the most expensive or most technologically advanced products wasn't always the best way. The most expensive perhaps, but not always the best way. A lot of the tech ''advancements'' aren't advancements at all, but lateral moves intended to generate new sales to invigorate a slumping market. In learning all that there are times I hope to share that education with others so they won't make the same ''mistakes'' I did and spend far more than needed to assemble a high quality, high performing aircraft. That can be extremely frustrating at times since a lot of what is considered ''old'' still works as good as the ''new'' stuff. I also try to provide information intended to prevent people from buying stuff and doing things that won't work out as well as they hope. It's cheaper if they listen and often they get to keep their planes longer.

You won't ever read about me condeming anyone for purchasing a top of the line engine. You'll get your money's worth and have a better resale should you ever decide to let it go. I have a little of everything and everything has a place, you just have to know what those places are. Same applies to the better airframes and solid radios. I can't help you with the flying side of things aside from telling you to burn a lot of gas. A flight sim and a foamie complete that cycle. The sim lets you develop the hand, eye, thumbs talenst while the foamie is slow enough and easy enough to repair to develop the confidence you'll need to get low and slow. The operative word there is confidence because you must have complete confidence in your equipment, especially the engine, and your own ability before you can be more than average. You don't need to be daring or reckless, just confident in your ability through lots of practice. The plane itself will not be what makes you better, that will all be you.

I'll admit to being grumpy but that's what happens when the same things are said over and over because the words were rejected by people that succumbed to some good advertising or a conversation with a sponsored flyer. A flyer is sponsored because they will win contests on a consistent basis, and would do so if using the worst products available. They also have to be good ''spokespersons'' for the hobby. You might equate ''salesperson'' with that description, although the real competition superstars are the ones that go out of their way to help people regardless of the products in use. So they are given products in order to subliminally convince people the stuff on the plane is what won the contest, not the operator. People don't really think a pair of Nike sneakers wins basketball games, or that Budwieser makes for better football players, do they?

So that's who I am. I try to help and educate but also try to have fun. Sometimes that doesn't work out quite the way I would prefer.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreaTOne_65

Hey, Tom. Will reading your question, and the answers. I must tell you until 5 years ago, I never used anything but Futaba S148's on everything in my gas powered airplanes. 5 years ago, I dicided not because of any failures, that maybe on the BME 540 Edge I had just bought, maybe I'd better at least run MG servos. But I still used S148's for the throttle and the choke. I have only had one servo failure, that was on a Bud Nosen Mustang, that is from 30 years of flying. If your looking for a good MG servo, I have been useing Hobbico with very good luck. Here is a servo that will more than fit the bill. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNRP9&P=7

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCER88

I find this thread kind of amusing. The battle of $ vs intelligence. I will not spend $46.00 on a throttle servo when a $10.00 or less analog will do the job just as well. I am using a analog nylon gear un-name brand standard servo that I bought for $8.00 new for throttle on my quadra 35 in my 116 inch Davis D1W. I am in no way concerned if that servo fails because I have a built in redundancy. (ie remote engine kill.) I would just line up on the runway kill the engine and land.

It is very easy to reduce the effect of vibration on your throttle servo. Ever heard of nyrod? I know there is engine vibration and using nyrod it does not ''feedback'' to the servo. I learned that years ago. The plastic will not vibrate like a solid metal rod would thus reducing stress on the servo. In twenty plus years of R/C flying I have only had two servo failures. I had one throttle servo failure on a glow airplane that I had flown for six seasons. Before I switched to nyrod. One I caught on the ground during preflight on airelons on a High speed airplane that had four seasons of heavy flying.

Many of your ''high dollar named brand servos'' are built in the same factory as some of the NO Name servos using the same components.

But to each there own. It is your plane do what you are comfortable with. I prefer to be smart in my selection of equipment and setup so I have more cash for other things. (like more airplanes)

Happy Flying!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eganwp

To the OP, I run a simple PowerHD DS090 on my throttle. Works great @ $19.

On the note of servos and $$ spent, I 100% agree with Tom and others here. People sometimes laugh at me for using such cheap stuff, but the real funny thing is, in nearly every case my planes stay flying while others are long gone...

I use $5 std sport servos from HK in all my .40 sized planes. They work great, center well, have no slop and are reasonably fast. One plane I have does 115mph and has over 300 flights using these servos. A few others are past the 100 flights mark and I've never had a single one fail. It all depends on application though. As TOM said, each needs to do his own research and QA to discover what works for a particular application. I don't even want to think about the $$ hundreds of dollars I've saved in this hobby by not simply ''throwing money at it''. I bet TOM is in the 10's of the thousands, if not more!

To each their own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JNorton

What I heard was put your spring back on so the throttle plate doesn't wear out. Nylon gears are fine for a throttle. You don't need massive torque ratings. You do need repeatability. I ignore perceived emotions on these threads because of the failure of the written word to convey intent. What I look at is the amount of time someone uses to help others. Time is precious. Postings about people personalites are a waste of my time, I look for content I can use.
John

quote:

ORIGINAL: JNorton

What I heard was put your spring back on so the throttle plate doesn't wear out. Nylon gears are fine for a throttle. You don't need massive torque ratings. You do need repeatability. I ignore perceived emotions on these threads because of the failure of the written word to convey intent. What I look at is the amount of time someone uses to help others. Time is precious. Postings about people personalites are a waste of my time, I look for content I can use.
John

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

About 20 ounces of resistance but once that is pushed into position it's a non issue for the servo. You're ailerons at speed probably generate more resistance.

Get rid of the Lawnboy. You don't want to deal with the aftermath. Once an engine finishes breaking in you don't want to take another 5 gallons of gas to clean out the carbon and additives left behind from the Lawnboy. Just use what you plan on running all the time. The DA suggestion of Pennzoil for break in if you feel the need for a separate break in oil is a much better choice.

If you use 40-1 Stihl you won't see any appreciable wear at 100 hours. There's a lot of DA's broken in and run where I'm at, and they start life with the Stihl HP Ultra.

quote:

ORIGINAL: on_your_six

Interesting... I did not hear him say anything about doing any servo testing of any sort to arrive at that conclusion. I do not see centering accuracy specifications listed anywhere on any servos by any manufacturer. Any results you obtain with your method (which seems somewhat reasonable), are merely a random sample that may or may not represent ANY sort of statistical accuracy. To make such a statement which is derogatory towards a particular manufacturer... you (or he) should have more evidence. It would take a representative sample and a blind study to arrive at this conclusion. Everyone here has manufacturers preferences that shade, if not blind, their recognition of the truth. I am not saying you are wrong about your conclusions, just put up more than what has been mentioned here. I have never seen such a study of competing products. Further, you would have to test with various radios... as the radio could make a difference... one brand of servo might be better with a certain brand of radio... I just don't know.

While you always drag up your experience (which is considerable), the hobby changes quickly. The "best" choice a month ago may no longer be. This is especially true when it comes to electronics. Others have posted wonderful experiences with $3 micro servos in small helis... I have been using $9 servos with great results and have also used $50 and $90 servos.

Your condescending attitude towards differing opinions has been noted...the big boys might agree. If someone disagrees with you, it should not ding your ego one bit.

"If you listen more than you talk, you might hear something."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nitro-Tom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

About 20 ounces of resistance but once that is pushed into position it's a non issue for the servo. You're ailerons at speed probably generate more resistance.

Get rid of the Lawnboy. You don't want to deal with the aftermath. Once an engine finishes breaking in you don't want to take another 5 gallons of gas to clean out the carbon and additives left behind from the Lawnboy. Just use what you plan on running all the time. The DA suggestion of Pennzoil for break in if you feel the need for a separate break in oil is a much better choice.

If you use 40-1 Stihl you won't see any appreciable wear at 100 hours. There's a lot of DA's broken in and run where I'm at, and they start life with the Stihl HP Ultra.

Alot of folks here recommend Amzoil.....I have a lot of motorcycle shops around....bel-Ray, Amzoil....I am sure if I look I can find anything.....Since I mixed up the first gallon, I will use it...but then I am onto the synthetic for sure......

One thing I am confused about (moving forward after break in)(And I agreee - Qucik break in) after the switch to synthetic.....lots of folks are anti 100-1

Lot's of folks swear 50-1.....32-1 ....I am not sure about the correct ratio

I should have added - I am guessing 50-1 any good synthetic.....

quote:


... i hope one day you have enough info on your mind on this hobby like Pat and others gurus has.

quote:

ORIGINAL: summerwind

quote:

ORIGINAL: on_your_six

Interesting... I did not hear him say anything about doing any servo testing of any sort to arrive at that conclusion. I do not see centering accuracy specifications listed anywhere on any servos by any manufacturer. Any results you obtain with your method (which seems somewhat reasonable), are merely a random sample that may or may not represent ANY sort of statistical accuracy. To make such a statement which is derogatory towards a particular manufacturer... you (or he) should have more evidence. It would take a representative sample and a blind study to arrive at this conclusion. Everyone here has manufacturers preferences that shade, if not blind, their recognition of the truth. I am not saying you are wrong about your conclusions, just put up more than what has been mentioned here. I have never seen such a study of competing products. Further, you would have to test with various radios... as the radio could make a difference... one brand of servo might be better with a certain brand of radio... I just don't know.

While you always drag up your experience (which is considerable), the hobby changes quickly. The ''best'' choice a month ago may no longer be. This is especially true when it comes to electronics. Others have posted wonderful experiences with $3 micro servos in small helis... I have been using $9 servos with great results and have also used $50 and $90 servos.

Your condescending attitude towards differing opinions has been noted...the big boys might agree. If someone disagrees with you, it should not ding your ego one bit.

''If you listen more than you talk, you might hear something.''

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

For evidence take a couple of those 645's and mount them on a piece of light ply. Make a long pointer by adding a length of anything to the servo arm that is aligned with the arm. Place a protractor against the side of the servo case, or somewhere the pointer can overlay the degree arc of the protractor. Now run the servo through end points and back to neutral again, over and over. Write down the numerous different degree positions. You can do that with any servo of any brand.

Of course there's an easier way for those that have them in planes already. Just move the control surfaces and note all the different places a surface ends up when the servos come back to neutral. You need to get to the top of the Hitec line before you achieve ''good'' centering but even then you won't match the centering and resolution of the upper end Futaba, Airtronics, and JR servos. Each brand has their strong points and one has to learn what they are and how they might benefot before making a servo selection. It's not just about ''the best'' but also about what will best suit the user and the application. Those are not always one and the same. BTW, the difference between a 5925 and a 5945 is the gearing. That's what establishes that difference in speed and torque between the two servos. The inner workings are identical.

I'm not going to add much more to this thread since it seems to be mostly newbies feeding false data to other newbies. I don't have a clue where some of the info in this thread originated, but a whole lot of it is pretty much useless and misleading. For those of you just getting into gas giants I'll suggest you talk to people that already fly tham and have been doing so for a looong time. Not too bright using people with as little or less experience than yourself as your source of product and operational info.

As for nylon gears...the 8411 was the servo of choice for TOC giant aircraft before the metal geared stuff came along. Many of the Comp Arf assembly manuals still note the use of an 8411 in their planes. The upper end before that was the 4721. Now if you want a high end plane, look at a Compy, Zlin, SebArt, or similar. That's the big boys folks. All servos wear and develop slop. Once you know anything about servos, or anything else mechanical, you understand there is no such thing as ''good forever''. Eventually everything wears out, with some faster than others. Then you have installation errors compounding the speed of wear, and many of you do quite well at wearing stuff out as fast as it can through poor installation and set up practices.

So Happy New Year and good luck. I'm heading back over to the big toys forums at a significantly more advanced site.

Very well said. (to on_your_six)
it would be nice to just have a discussion without someone coming in and answering in the typical rude fashion that has become so typical. the ''i am tired of answering'' is another reason to just not answer at all.
there is no reason to use a cheap servo or even a typical standard servo in throttle application regardless of how well the linkage is setup.
the use of a high end servo is to ensure the same operation again and again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JNorton

http://www.servodatabase.com/servos/all
John