RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying
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RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/14/2007 10:47:52 PM

Posts: 1858
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: n. canton, OH, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cesar781

i got one patty with DL 50 on it flys good and with a lot of power

Read a lot of good copy about this engine. What prop are you swinging? How much does your Patty weigh?

Mine now has a 3W 55, and I can go vertical from a 20 ft roll and continue vertical rolling all the way, or even snapping on the way up to where ever altitude I want. My 52cc FPE didn't have that kind of power, although still a very reliable engine.

(in reply to cesar781)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/16/2007 2:54:56 PM

dhal22

Posts: 1482
Joined: 8/28/2006
From: Roswell, GA, USA
Status: offline

i have a question for owners of of Pattys who use the Moki 2.10 engine. the Patty i bought RTF came with a side mounted Moki 2.10 and I assume a pitts style Bisson muffler. anyway, now that the muffler has fallen off during flight and was lost i need to find a replacement and am searching for the proper description of the muffler i lost. have i described it correctly? TIA

(in reply to ram3500-RCU)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/17/2007 10:56:10 PM

Posts: 136
Joined: 12/17/2002
From: Kansas City, MO,
Status: offline

I have been flying a Patty setup the way you describe for years. Your description sounds right to me.
If you wait around a bit more maybe someone will come up with a part number. I looked but the paperwork on
mine is long gone.

_____________________________

Mike

(in reply to dhal22)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/17/2007 11:15:54 PM

Posts: 1858
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: n. canton, OH, USA
Status: offline

Bison Pitts style muffler for the Moki / Mark 210 is part # is BIS01210. It sells for $63 at our LHS. The only thing is, I don't know what the angle of the exit pipes are on this one. They have a couple choices on most Pitts pipes.

(in reply to MRMcFarlandM)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/18/2007 2:19:49 AM

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/23/2005
From: Henderson, NV, USA
Status: offline

D Wheel
I think you are doing the old Figure M from AMA pattern days.

quote:

ORIGINAL: d_wheel

quote:

ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU

Going out this morning to practice knife edge loops and double hammer heads.

Describe a double hammerhead. I have been flying a maneuver for years and no one seems to have a name for. It is started by flying in right side up at about half throttle from one end of the field; pull straight up into a high hammerhead, slowly push inverted in a wide U shape that makes each leg of the U about 500 feet apart; straight up into another hammer head and then recover right side up. Is this the double hammerhead you are referring to?

I agree on the spoilerons! The Patty is a floater and needs all the help it can get to make a decent landing! I have mine coupled to the elevator. When activated, they come up about 3/4 inch at full up elevator. Really helps the aircraft stick to the ground on landing.

Later;

D.W.

(in reply to d_wheel)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/18/2007 2:49:11 AM

dhal22

Posts: 1482
Joined: 8/28/2006
From: Roswell, GA, USA
Status: offline

thx ram3500, i just want to make sure i order the correct muffler. down time is not something i am looking forward to with my favorite plane. thx

(in reply to vegasjbug)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/18/2007 3:49:48 AM

ppplum

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/26/2007
From: Belmont, CA, USA
Status: offline

ram3500-RCU

I was looking at your gallery and if that red 1/4 scale Pitts is yours, it looks like the perfect plane for the double hammer head.

Sean Tucker is supposed to perform at S.F. Bay next month. I would like to watch him fly but I hate to put up with the traffic.

If he calls it a 'double hammer head', it sounds right. Good name for it.

But let us know when you post a video of you doing a double hammer head.

When you turn on the spoilers, do you need to compensate with elevator... like with flaps?

(in reply to ram3500-RCU)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/18/2007 4:11:45 AM

ppplum

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/26/2007
From: Belmont, CA, USA
Status: offline

D_Wheel. I agree. Sure sound like the 'old'(?) pattern figure 'm'. They had several variations of it depending on the class. Yours sounds like the basic. Then they had 1/4/, 1/2, 1 and 1 1/2 rolls on the up line and down line of each leg of the stall turn. I've still think the 1/4 roll is the most difficult because you'll end up looking at the bottom of your fuse.

Why is the figure M old? They don't do them anymore? I've been out of the pattern stuff for so long.

ram3500-RCU said he just saw Sean Tucker do that maneuver on a full sized plane and Sean called it a double hammer head. Check out this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=F_Gd_qAF4rs&mode=related&search= He does the double hammer head 1 minute 12 seconds from the start of the video. At the end of the video, he hangs his plane on the prop for around a minute. He's a fantastic flyer. I fly r/c plane like him. But I've never been able to do the double hammer head. Don't waste time or gas. Pack in as much tricks as possible. No sense wasting $$$ just putting around. Maybe we r/c guys learned from the full scale guys.

ram3500-RCU said he can do it and will some day video it and post it. Can't wait.

(in reply to d_wheel)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/18/2007 6:07:47 AM

Posts: 1858
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: n. canton, OH, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ppplum

ram3500-RCU

I was looking at your gallery and if that red 1/4 scale Pitts is yours, it looks like the perfect plane for the double hammer head.

Sean Tucker is supposed to perform at S.F. Bay next month. I would like to watch him fly but I hate to put up with the traffic.

If he calls it a 'double hammer head', it sounds right. Good name for it.

But let us know when you post a video of you doing a double hammer head.

When you turn on the spoilers, do you need to compensate with elevator... like with flaps?

Yes, that was the Cermark Pitts and I flew her for four seasons before selling her to a Pilot in Texas. I never tried this maneuver with it although she could do knife edge loops. Her replacement was the CG Ultimate, which I have been flying about a year now. I have not tried the DHH with it, but I think I will this week.

I will post video of Patty when I can can get some, of it. I can't do it consistently well yet. But I continue to work on it.

Seeing Sean's performance was inspiring to me.I'm sure it would be to you as well. Hope you can make it.

I do not re-trim for spoilers. As a result of the reduced lift, one does need to hold a little more up on the final approach. No more floating though, just a very solid arrival, sorta like a WWII fighter. For me, re-trimming it would kinda defeat what I try to accomplish with the setup, that is, the feel and reaction of a heavier loaded wing. I deploy in the down wind leg, and am already in a low throttle descending path to the runway, holding elevator and adjusting throttle as needed to hit my spot on the runway (first 20%), usually tail gear first. Re-trimming might work for others though.

PS Great video, thanks.

< Message edited by ram3500-RCU -- 9/18/2007 6:28:19 AM >

(in reply to ppplum)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/18/2007 2:48:25 PM

Posts: 572
Joined: 1/27/2003
From: Deep in the Heart Of, TX,
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ppplum

D_Wheel. I agree. Sure sound like the 'old'(?) pattern figure 'm'.

Sean Tucker do that maneuver on a full sized plane and Sean called it a double hammer head. Check out this video

Thanks. I tried it with 1/2 and 3/4 rolls over the week end and it is a whole new ball game!

I was having a hard time visualizing the maneuver but the video cleared it right up.

Later;

D.W.

_____________________________

Gettin'' old ain''t for sissies.

(in reply to ppplum)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/18/2007 3:31:21 PM

Posts: 572
Joined: 1/27/2003
From: Deep in the Heart Of, TX,
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ppplum

When you turn on the spoilers, do you need to compensate with elevator... like with flaps?

My spoilers are coupled to up elevator, so no retrim is necessary. More up elevator results in increased spoilers as well. When flying level, there is no spoiler action at all. The desired results is to touchdown with all 3 gear at the same time or, even better, with tail wheel first. as soon as all 3 wheels are on the ground I give it full up and it sticks pretty well. Any landing where the mains touch first is going to bounce! I just leave the coupling turned on when doing touch and go landings because the airplane requires so little elevator during the takeoff and go around that I don't even notice it.

Later;

D.W.

_____________________________

Gettin'' old ain''t for sissies.

(in reply to ppplum)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/23/2007 2:35:23 PM

Posts: 1858
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: n. canton, OH, USA
Status: offline

Well, it's been fun..........................

Went flying Saturday at our clubs steak grill event. Beautiful weather, a little cross wind. Near the end of my flight, I decided to do a very low inverted pass. Done literally hundreds. This time though, I was felling invincible (I had had a great flight and done everything I wanted to with her). Straight across form me, in the middle of the runway, as I streaked across the grass with less than two feet under the rudder, I watched in horror, as the bottom dropped out and she slammed in on her rudder, ripping it, the vertical tail, and half the turtle deck, right off the plane! It reduced the 22" prop to a 6 X 10, the plane bounced back up about 15' and straight on. I rolled right side up and then eased the nose back down (no problem as it was a little nose heavy now

) and it went slightly left. I corrected with rudder, 'WAIT A MINUTE, I HAVE NO RUDDER", my brain finally realized . I attempted a flair, but couldn't get enough air speed as low as it was. It came in hard on the gear and still on the runway, but didn't bend it. I think the fuselage was so fractured that it gave and absorbed the energy.

The cowl, gear, and surprisingly, the rudder (can not figure that one out), are untouched, the rest, well.................., she has looked better. When my camera comes back from Cedar Point, where my Daughter took it this week end, I'll take some post-mortum pictures.

I'm looking for a replacement already. I have some equipment for another plane now

. Maybe that Yak will come yet this year after all.

Looks like somehow, most of my equipment survived, including my 3W engine. Love those hollow CF props. I may have lost an 8411 that was on the rudder. Will have to disassemble it and check it out.

In 'plane years', which is longer than even doggie years, this plane was older than Miles Reed, so I guess I can't comPLANE.

I'm out.

< Message edited by ram3500-RCU -- 9/23/2007 2:45:41 PM >

(in reply to d_wheel)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/23/2007 8:27:15 PM

Posts: 2065
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU

Well, it's been fun..........................

Went flying Saturday at our clubs steak grill event. Beautiful weather, a little cross wind. Near the end of my flight, I decided to do a very low inverted pass. Done literally hundreds. This time though, I was felling invincible (I had had a great flight and done everything I wanted to with her). Straight across form me, in the middle of the runway, as I streaked across the grass with less than two feet under the rudder, I watched in horror, as the bottom dropped out and she slammed in on her rudder, ripping it, the vertical tail, and half the turtle deck, right off the plane! It reduced the 22" prop to a 6 X 10, the plane bounced back up about 15' and straight on. I rolled right side up and then eased the nose back down (no problem as it was a little nose heavy now ) and it went slightly left. I corrected with rudder, 'WAIT A MINUTE, I HAVE NO RUDDER", my brain finally realized . I attempted a flair, but couldn't get enough air speed as low as it was. It came in hard on the gear and still on the runway, but didn't bend it. I think the fuselage was so fractured that it gave and absorbed the energy.

The cowl, gear, and surprisingly, the rudder (can not figure that one out), are untouched, the rest, well.................., she has looked better. When my camera comes back from Cedar Point, where my Daughter took it this week end, I'll take some post-mortum pictures.

I'm looking for a replacement already. I have some equipment for another plane now . Maybe that Yak will come yet this year after all.

Looks like somehow, most of my equipment survived, including my 3W engine. Love those hollow CF props. I may have lost an 8411 that was on the rudder. Will have to disassemble it and check it out.

In 'plane years', which is longer than even doggie years, this plane was older than Miles Reed, so I guess I can't comPLANE. I'm out.

Sorry to read this but it must have been awesome to see live. Sounds like you quickly got over the SHOCK to make a salvage recovery.

Hope you keep a Patty in the future.

Pete

_____________________________

"Remember, all im offering is the truth, nothing more..."
Morpheus

(in reply to ram3500-RCU)

RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 9/29/2007 7:08:14 PM