RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying  
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    • All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> ARF or RTF >> RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying
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    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/18/2008 9:50:20 PM   
    ram3500-RCU



    Posts: 1728
    Joined: 8/17/2002
    From: n. canton, OH, USA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: netdudeuk

    I'm about to start the build and I already have a question According to the manual, the servo tray has a slot in it but mine doesn't. It's not obvious why there would need to be one. Is there no need for this slot ?

    Also, with an AR7000 there a loads of different ways to use the seven channels. One obvious choice would be to give every servo it's own channel but that doesn't leave a free channel for engine cut out, for example. Maybe I could use a Y-lead for the ailerons to free one up for this purpose ? Or use it for the choke and then use that as a way to cut the engine ? What has anyone else done ?


    I use:
    2 ch for the elevators (mix together so all the linkage is symmetrical instead of the problematic on board servo reverser)
    2 ch for the ailerons for spoilerons
    1 ch for rudder
    1 ch for throttle
    this still leaves one for choke, or smoke

    (in reply to netdudeuk)
           Post #: 3626

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/18/2008 9:57:51 PM   
    KC36330


     

    Posts: 2501
    Joined: 4/19/2006
    From: Enterprise, AL, USA
    Status: online     		i use a 10c RX and everything has it's own chan with 9 in use on my patty, but if the circumstances were different though I'd have no problem using HD Y's on Ail/Ele/Rud. i don't use spoilerons and really don't see them as being necessary. I've put 11 flights on my Patty the last two days with 10-15 mph winds w/ gusts to 25 and she does just as good as on a calm day.

    (in reply to ram3500-RCU)
           Post #: 3627

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/18/2008 10:15:56 PM   
    ram3500-RCU



    Posts: 1728
    Joined: 8/17/2002
    From: n. canton, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Balanced nose heavy, you will not need them. If you move the CG aft, and fully open up her aerobatic capabilities, you will like using spoilerons as she will not want to slow down. I have hundreds of flights on this airframe and gradually moved the CG aft till I got all I think Patty had to give.

    One 100oz or better servo is fine on the rudder (no Y needed)
    elevators will not have symmetrical linkage unless you link them the same and reverse one servo. (no Y needed)
    And yes, if you don't want to try spoilerons, no Y is needed on the ailerons either

    (in reply to KC36330)
           Post #: 3628

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/18/2008 10:33:35 PM   
    Verbeelding


     

    Posts: 28
    Joined: 5/15/2005
    From: Gent, BELGIUM
    Status: offline     		Ram

    can you explain the spoilerons, how do you setup this in your TX. I'm new in giants

    thanks
    Peter

    (in reply to ram3500-RCU)
           Post #: 3629

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/18/2008 10:39:51 PM   
    ram3500-RCU



    Posts: 1728
    Joined: 8/17/2002
    From: n. canton, OH, USA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Verbeelding

    Ram

    can you explain the spoilerons, how do you setup this in your TX. I'm new in giants

    thanks
    Peter


    Peter, what transmitter are you using? I had them in the JR 8103, and now the even easier 9303.

    (in reply to Verbeelding)
           Post #: 3630

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/18/2008 10:49:49 PM   
    Verbeelding


     

    Posts: 28
    Joined: 5/15/2005
    From: Gent, BELGIUM
    Status: offline     		Ram
    I use a futaba T12 FG (i just have him 3 weeks) so I have to put al my models in it

    do you use your ailerons as flaps : is that the meaning of spoilerons ? in witch direction ?

    Peter


    (in reply to ram3500-RCU)
           Post #: 3631

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/18/2008 10:54:04 PM   
    KC36330


     

    Posts: 2501
    Joined: 4/19/2006
    From: Enterprise, AL, USA
    Status: online
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU

    Balanced nose heavy, you will not need them. If you move the CG aft, and fully open up her aerobatic capabilities, you will like using spoilerons as she will not want to slow down. I have hundreds of flights on this airframe and gradually moved the CG aft till I got all I think Patty had to give.


    Mine was balanced at 4 1/4" back BEFORE i replaced that half pound spinner that came with the kit with a 19 gram carbon one, i think I'm as far aft as anyone and i don't see a need for spoilorons. also FWIW nose heavy is what causes one to not slow down.


    Peter

    spoilorons are when the ailerons deflect UP as you apply back elevator.

    < Message edited by Lightfoot -- 2/19/2008 4:02:30 AM >

    (in reply to ram3500-RCU)
           Post #: 3632

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/18/2008 11:20:46 PM   
    ram3500-RCU



    Posts: 1728
    Joined: 8/17/2002
    From: n. canton, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Your balance is definitely not all the way back. If you have spent any time looking through this thread, you will see that landing technique with this plane has been discussed many times, and the use of spoilerons to aid with this. She has a tendency to sail when the ideal aerobatic balance has been found. I don't know what your setup is, but as you fly more, and adjust the CG you will find this out. If she isn't sailing on you, you don't have the CG back all the way. Maybe that is all you want, pattern flight. That is fine, and you will not need spoilerons with a nose heavy plane. My experience with this airframe goes back some 5 years and I have tried everything I could with it. You may not benefit from all my time on the GP Extra, because it appears you already know everything. Everyone knows that a nose heavy balance is easier to land. You need more elevator and the whole plane produces more drag. Why would you debate this? With an AFT balance, the slightest throttle and you'll be flying all night, hence the usefulness of the spoilerons that simulate an increased wing loading and make her land 'heavier', no floating even with more throttle to increase the rudder authority on final.



    < Message edited by Lightfoot -- 2/19/2008 4:03:22 AM >

    (in reply to KC36330)
           Post #: 3633

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/18/2008 11:26:58 PM   
    Zeeb



    Posts: 1774
    Joined: 11/11/2004
    From: Pleasant Grove, UT, USA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: netdudeuk


    Also, with an AR7000 there a loads of different ways to use the seven channels. One obvious choice would be to give every servo it's own channel but that doesn't leave a free channel for engine cut out, for example. Maybe I could use a Y-lead for the ailerons to free one up for this purpose ? Or use it for the choke and then use that as a way to cut the engine ? What has anyone else done ?



    I had sold my Patty before I went to the DX7 radio, so I didn't fly her with that. I also did not fly my other gassers until I got my X9303 because I needed 8 channels for covering the fiber optic kill switches I use along with servo operated chokes.

    First, I'm not a fan of Y harnesses in stuff this size. Second, if you don't have the AR7000 that has the updated software for the fast re-connect following a power brown out, you should send it in for the update. It'll come back on with the tx in less than 1/2 second with the update, it takes several seconds without the update.

    You could use a manual choke which is what I had on my Patty and have enough channels. Or, if you really decide to use something to join two servos, either the aileron or elevators, I'd use a Matchbox and a separate power feed to the Matchbox for the servos it controls.

    You just have to remember that the Spektrum stuff is really a nice upgrade and they are fantastic radios, but they are voltage sensitive so your electrical system needs to be up to snuff...

    Here's a pic of my Patty and me...



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    < Message edited by Zeeb -- 2/19/2008 12:17:33 AM >

    _____________________________

    Zeeb

    (in reply to netdudeuk)
           Post #: 3634

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/18/2008 11:31:36 PM   
    ram3500-RCU



    Posts: 1728
    Joined: 8/17/2002
    From: n. canton, OH, USA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Verbeelding

    Ram
    I use a futaba T12 FG (i just have him 3 weeks) so I have to put al my models in it

    do you use your ailerons as flaps : is that the meaning of spoilerons ? in witch direction ?

    Peter



    I was afraid you would say Futaba Peter. I really don't know Futaba programing, but I can tell you that with a JR 9303, the program with it's mixing and trim is already written. You just need to use (2) channels (aileron and aux 6 I think), as you would for flaps, and set your landing mode to deflect both ailerons up about 3/4" when you flip the switch. This dumps a lot of your lift and you will notice that you will be able to use more elevator and throttle on final without gaining ground speed. Perfect three point landings are the norm with no bounce. Also, your ground roll will be shorter because of the extra down force by the ailerons being up. You definitely don't need this technique with a center or forward CG.

    (in reply to Verbeelding)
           Post #: 3635

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/19/2008 12:15:50 AM   
    KC36330


     

    Posts: 2501
    Joined: 4/19/2006
    From: Enterprise, AL, USA
    Status: online     		a tail heavy aircraft, regardless of if it's a park flier, a 3D, or a turbine jet all settle the tail low as speed declines (get this........such as when landing) with the tail low you simply let the tail wheel touch down and the mains follow with minimal if any bounce. those that are balanced in spec or nose heavy require back elevator to flare the tail and with this aircraft that added back elevator keeps it flying. we've got 3 of them in our club, both the nose heavy ones drag out the landing, one of the guys uses spoilorons the other doesn't. while i haven't flown Pete's (Rocketman612) i have flown the other one quiet a bit and she's a floater but given the right technique (which i explained many many pages back) she'll settle down perfectly.


    < Message edited by depfife -- 2/21/2008 5:32:21 AM >

    (in reply to pittster)
           Post #: 3636

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/19/2008 12:16:30 AM   
    netdudeuk


     

    Posts: 447
    Joined: 7/22/2005
    From: Doncaster, UNITED KINGDOM
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Zeeb


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: netdudeuk


    Also, with an AR7000 there a loads of different ways to use the seven channels. One obvious choice would be to give every servo it's own channel but that doesn't leave a free channel for engine cut out, for example. Maybe I could use a Y-lead for the ailerons to free one up for this purpose ? Or use it for the choke and then use that as a way to cut the engine ? What has anyone else done ?



    First, I'm not a fan of Y harnesses in stuff this size. Second, if you don't have the AR7000 that has the updated software for the fast re-connect following a power brown out, you should send it in for the update. It'll come back on with the tx in less than 1/2 second with the update, it takes several seconds without the update.

    You just have to remember that the Spektrum stuff is really a nice upgrade and they are fantastic radios, but they are voltage sensitive so your electrical system needs to be up to snuff...


    The AR7000 is maybe four months old. No idea how long it was stored elsewhere. How do you determine if it's an updated version ? Turn off the TX ?

    I've only used on 6v packs to help reduce the risk of a brown out and want to get a reasonable capacity pack for the radio in this one. I just keep getting conflicting comments about nicads and nimhs and which are the best of the pair.

    (in reply to Zeeb)
           Post #: 3637

    RE: GP Patty Wagstaff - Building & Flying - 2/19/2008 12:31:23 AM   
    Zeeb



    Posts: 1774
    Joined: 11/11/2004
    From: Pleasant Grove, UT, USA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: netdudeuk



    The AR7000 is maybe four months old. No idea how long it was stored elsewhere. How do you determine if it's an updated version ? Turn off the TX ?

    I've only used on 6v packs to help reduce the risk of a brown out and want to get a reasonable capacity pack for the radio in this one. I just keep getting conflicting comments about nicads and nimhs and which are the best of the pair.



    Okay, it's probably not the upgraded version. The