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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 10/24/2012 5:16 AM   
Giant_Scale_Gasser


 

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ORIGINAL: cmoulder

I will fire up the SAP 180 when the snow clears from the fields and will continue flying the Focus II as I work on the electric Pentathlon Evo.



Not to hijack the thread, but anything to share about the Focus II and the SAP180 combo?

I just purchased that exact ship & engine combo last Sunday and it is my first pattern ship. I intend to just sport/sunday fly it, but I would like to work on tightening up my moves a little. Any tips on control throws, CG & servo strength & servo arms would be appreciated. A few photos would be nice to compare if you have any to share. Thanks!



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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 10/26/2012 12:20 AM   
cmoulder


 

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Start Here with the original SAP thread with a lot of stuff about the Focus II I assembled with lots of help and advice from Matt and others.

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 11/30/2012 5:09 AM   
MTK



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Status: offline 		Made some more progress on Delta. Installed the adjusters and lock downs on the wing. It's a big plane, 78 1/2" square,

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 12/2/2012 1:16 AM   
vatechguy3


 

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Status: offline 		Going to use a dle35 and a pipe??

Tony

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 12/2/2012 4:16 AM   
cmoulder


 

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ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

Going to use a dle35 and a pipe??

Tony


A 35??

How about a 55!!

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 12/2/2012 7:21 AM   
MTK



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quote:

ORIGINAL: cmoulder

quote:

ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

Going to use a dle35 and a pipe??

Tony


A 35??

How about a 55!!


For the next Delta, the OS33 will produce a weight legal plane. Not that the DLE55 version is definitely going to be illegal...I'm just not as certain about the final weight yet. As we all know weight is one of those strange things that just comes out of thin air at the very end of a project....

Bob, you've showed me a couple times how to do that link and I just don't use it enough to remember it. Thanks for doing it again.

I took more careful measurements of the wing recently. Final area is 1140 squares. My tip had been cut down to 6 5/8" which I forgot.... Root of course is still 22" for a ratio of about 3.4. **EDIT3.32 ratio, calculated. I estimated the 3.4 in my head**  Anything over 3 should produce spirited performance so we will see. The large wing should slow me down a bit more and give me more time especially when coupled with the DLE's outstanding mid range manners.

**EDIT Larger wing area, meaning drag and slow flying, is one huge advantage for a biplane over a monoplane. There are others too. The large electric props generate their thrust at lower rpm than gas or glow and can reall take advantage of a bipe's natural character. Makes me wish I had access to a machine shop to build a belt reduction drive such that a 23-24" prop could be turned**

< Message edited by MTK -- 12/3/2012 3:39 PM >


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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 12/2/2012 4:59 PM   
vatechguy3


 

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Status: offline 		so which ariframe is the test bed for the dle-35ra??

tony

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 12/3/2012 1:00 AM   
MTK



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Status: offline 		Vanquish most likely. Plenty of Pattern flying performance to get a good read on the engine. Most importantly it is finished already and making the engine mount changes is no biggie


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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 12/3/2012 3:05 PM   
guille2006



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From: Brindisi, ITALY
Status: offline 		Hey Matt; great job you're doing with that ship...
I don't know if mentioned before but; did you considere Mintor 33 as a possible powerplant. There is also a 38 tto.
In any case, can you tell the incidences you're setting for the engine mount?
Thanks on advance...
G.

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 12/3/2012 3:24 PM   
MTK



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ORIGINAL: guille2006

Hey Matt; great job you're doing with that ship...
I don't know if mentioned before but; did you considere Mintor 33 as a possible powerplant. There is also a 38 tto.
In any case, can you tell the incidences you're setting for the engine mount?
Thanks on advance...
G.

Thank you....

I used the Mintor 38 last year on a Pattern project and found disappointing output from that powerplant. Disappointing in Pattern terms only, not sport. I've covered that in other threads

Otherwise, I found the engine to have excellent field manners, simple to start and maintain. It's a good sport engine. And extremely well built, probably better than any of the other 30cc offerings that are made with cast cases and cylinders

I have no experience with the Mintor 33.

Thrust angles in my Delta are zero degrees down and 2 1/2 degrees right. Wing incidence is 0.3+ and stab is 0; those are the settings onthe bench anyway. Final settings to be determined. Vertical separation of wing and stab is 11.5 mm. That separation will give me zero roll couple for the wing dihedral I'm using (3 degrees)


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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 12/3/2012 3:46 PM   
guille2006



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Status: offline 		Thanks Matt, very detailed.
Cheers

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 4/19/2013 5:17 PM   
MTK



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Status: offline 		Looks like RCU is allowing photos again.  A bunch of photos to download.

I am just about finished with the build. Wings and stabs have the base coat of paint on. Completed the landing gear pant installation last night along with the pipe NACA ducting and hot air exhaust.

I can see the finish line


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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 4/20/2013 5:49 AM   
MTK



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Status: offline 		Completed the chin cowl treatment. It now sports a header hood and hot air hooded exits for better engine cooling

The pipe needs some extra cooling air hence the naca duct to make up some of the air lost out of the chin cowl.

The inside of the cowl was treated a little different by adding some composite reinforcement. The chin cowl will sit on its crutch at this area and in the past it tended to buckle cracking and flaking the paint. It won't happen this time

At the fuse rear additional air exits were installed to vent the pipe

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 4/20/2013 6:08 AM   
MTK



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Status: offline 		Fully assembled fuse is very large but light....The canopy will also sport a dorsal fin as yet not built. Been preaching the benefits of dorsals / ventrals for many years now. Nat Penton was the first I ever saw that sported these 30 years ago and they are finally being accepted as standard faire since schedules have caught up with the design concept

Wing to fuse fit and stab to fuse fit snaps. This is straight forward to get perfect. I add teflon tape to the fuse for release purposes and then fill the joint accordingly. Teflon tape is sticky on one side which makes this chore really elementary. 

The fuse center section treatment is shown in one snap. The honeycomb laminate was made by me, controlling its weight. It's two layers of 1/16" with 3 layers of 1.2 oz glass cloth. Carbon is unnecessary; would have looked great but would have been heavier

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 4/20/2013 6:17 AM   
MTK



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Status: offline 		The landing gear was fitted and faired into the fuse

The snap of the pant shows how my pants come out of the mold. The cloth is light 2.5 oz stock, but there is carbon in appropriate locations making these very strong. I've shown how the axle is installed before. It makes a very secure set-up which provides long service life. Carbon and axle hard points are all molded in and axles are aligned in the mold. It's the lighetst way to do pants. These weigh 12 to 14 grams a piece ready for finishing

A 16 oz tank operates the DLE55 for about 12 minutes depending on throttle management. Perfect for one schedule plus half dozen maneuvers. Should make Lochowski's day

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 4/20/2013 12:10 PM   
danamania


 

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Status: offline 		Awesome Matt! I hope I happen to be there on maiden day.  Joe, nah, he is going to be mostly put out if you only fly the sched once around the onion patch. As any builder must know, the nail that sticks up... LOL!  Will you be out there tomorrow with your current ride, hoping for a nice day? Cheers.

< Message edited by danamania -- 4/20/2013 5:17 PM >

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 4/20/2013 2:14 PM   
cmoulder


 

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Status: offline 		Looks great, Matt!

Can't believe you crammed a 55cc in there, lol! But I thought you would be using a bit smaller tank.

Any projection on the AUW?

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 4/20/2013 5:56 PM   
J Lachowski


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MTK

The landing gear was fitted and faired into the fuse

The snap of the pant shows how my pants come out of the mold. The cloth is light 2.5 oz stock, but there is carbon in appropriate locations making these very strong. I've shown how the axle is installed before. It makes a very secure set-up which provides long service life. Carbon and axle hard points are all molded in and axles are aligned in the mold. It's the lighetst way to do pants. These weigh 12 to 14 grams a piece ready for finishing

A 16 oz tank operates the DLE55 for about 12 minutes depending on throttle management. Perfect for one schedule plus half dozen maneuvers. Should make Lochowski's day


I guess you didn't hear. The executive board imposed a new 10 minute per flight rule. Exception is gliders.


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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 4/20/2013 6:22 PM   
MTK



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ORIGINAL: cmoulder

Looks great, Matt!

Can't believe you crammed a 55cc in there, lol! But I thought you would be using a bit smaller tank.

Any projection on the AUW?


Thanks Bob and Dana,

The 33 uses a smaller tank certainly. The 55 is thirstier. But of course, puts out 6 horses give or take. It's gonna be exciting to power a Pattern weighted model with this much power. On the other hand, if I don't need anything more than 1/3 throttle, maybe an 11 oz tank will work here too. The 33 is going into the Shinden...with an 8 oz tank actually, again to make my flying buddy happy...

AUW, not sure still. It's gonna be very close to the limit. The paint job is gonna be simple as much for weight reduction as visibility. I can't see these crazy paint jobs so many current models have on them.....

I am so near the end I can hardly wait..... Hope to be flying it at Jackson next month...... Certainly by PokeURNose


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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 4/21/2013 12:30 AM   
cmoulder


 

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Status: offline 		I hate to say it but I can't make it to Jackson this year... niece getting married in TN the same day!

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 4/25/2013 4:01 PM   
MTK



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Status: offline 		Looks like it will be 11 lbs 3 ounces with spinner and prop. There's more primer to sand off the fuse but it won't amount to much; maybe 10 grams.....


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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 4/27/2013 1:11 AM   
J Lachowski


 

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 5/10/2013 4:12 PM   
MTK



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ORIGINAL: MTK

Looks like it will be 11 lbs 3 ounces with spinner and prop. There's more primer to sand off the fuse but it won't amount to much; maybe 10 grams.....

The simple paint job is finally completed, Clear coats next and Delta is done. Two long years in the making but I had to figure out many things along the way. All in all a great experience. I hope to maiden in a week or two; then I'll see if the effort was worth it.....


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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 5/10/2013 4:29 PM   
vatechguy3


 

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Status: offline 		good luck!!

got pics?

tony

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RE: DERIVATIVE, New 2X2 - 5/10/2013 11:58 PM   
JRgraham


 

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Status: offline 		This should be cool!

Congrats, Matt! Cant wait to see the finished beuty!


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