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[Poll]

Bridi XLT vs Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape
Would you prefer to build an XLT? Why?
  26% (17)
Would you prefer to build an Escape? Why?
  10% (7)
Would you prefer to build an Escape with Bill Cunningham''s mods? Why?
  14% (9)
Would you prefer to build the Great Escape? Why?
  7% (5)
Would you prefer using a 2 cycle glow? Why?
  32% (21)
Would you prefer a 4 cycle glow engine? Why?
  7% (5)


Total Votes : 64
(last vote on : 10/28/2012 1:04 AM)
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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 4/28/2011 4:53 PM   
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pm sent...

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 6/5/2011 12:41 PM   
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Status: offline 		Well finally flew the Great Escape yesterday in the hot humid air took just a couple of clicks or aileron trim and it was on its way, the rossi kept leaning out and surging dont know why had it set very rich I have an 11-8 prop which could be to much pitch I got 11-7 that im going to put on. other than the engine problems the plane flies great

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 6/5/2011 3:43 PM   
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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 6/5/2011 4:17 PM   
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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 6/5/2011 4:22 PM   
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Status: offline 		and need new retract servo for some reason the one I have just decided to stop working go figure brand new too

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 6/6/2011 3:15 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jetmech43

Well finally flew the Great Escape yesterday in the hot humid air took just a couple of clicks or aileron trim and it was on its way, the rossi kept leaning out and surging dont know why had it set very rich I have an 11-8 prop which could be to much pitch I got 11-7 that im going to put on. other than the engine problems the plane flies great

Back in the mid-late 80's when I ran piped 60s, 12x11 or 12x12 apc were props of choice with a long pipe set-up. If I recall correctly, the high point was set at around 15" from the exhaust flange, tuned to turn around 11K. If you are running a pipe, you may want to make sure it isn't too short or too long.

An 11-8 apc should need the pipe set at 13 1/2" (high point). That should get you in the 14K rpm area


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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 6/6/2011 3:29 AM   
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Status: offline 		I bought the engine used and dont know the history it came with a short pipe, I will figure it out

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 6/6/2011 4:08 AM   
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I have not ran one but from what I know, Rossi's are short strokes and like to tach in the 14K happily. In fact, I believe they can turn upward of 15+K on 11x7's and a good setup. A 12x10 would likely bog it down in a bad way.

The pipe ought to be short. It sounds like the engine surging is the result of an overly long pipe which is sending back pressure in and out of phase with the engine timing. A standing wave is what one is aiming for. JM, bring back the pipe to what Matt is suggesting and see if it sorts out the surging issue. Once the engine is taching high, you can then richen it up and see if it still surges.

I think there are pipe length recommendations on the Macs site for Rossi's. Yes, here you go:

http://www.macspro.com/tuning.asp

3.5" header length for a side exhaust version - that's short - as are all the headers one sees on Rossi's in pictures of models from the 80's. Would make for a 10" end of header to high point on pipe length to start.

David.

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 6/6/2011 2:03 PM   
MTK



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ORIGINAL: doxilia

Matt, JM,

I have not ran one but from what I know, Rossi's are short strokes and like to tach in the 14K happily. In fact, I believe they can turn upward of 15+K on 11x7's and a good setup. A 12x10 would likely bog it down in a bad way.

The pipe ought to be short. It sounds like the engine surging is the result of an overly long pipe which is sending back pressure in and out of phase with the engine timing. A standing wave is what one is aiming for. JM, bring back the pipe to what Matt is suggesting and see if it sorts out the surging issue. Once the engine is taching high, you can then richen it up and see if it still surges.

I think there are pipe length recommendations on the Macs site for Rossi's. Yes, here you go:

http://www.macspro.com/tuning.asp

3.5'' header length for a side exhaust version - that's short - as are all the headers one sees on Rossi's in pictures of models from the 80's. Would make for a 10'' end of header to high point on pipe length to start.

David.

Rossis indeed were/are shorter stroked but respond superbly to longer pipe settings, just as YS short strokes (round heads) did. We had several back in the day. Set the pipe long if you want to turn the big sticks...or shorter if you want to turn the shorter sticks. The engine is a hoss...it gives you the option


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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 5:49 AM   
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Status: offline 		Boy am I greatful to my wife!!!!

Because of her, I now have a ST. series X .61 Rear Exhaust engine to install in my Great Escape or Escape. (I am leaning towards the GE now.)
I am in heaven!!!!

Oh boy... imagine pumping it with that big, beautiful, quiet tuned pipe.... (insert Tim Allen grunt here)

I have the plans, instruction book, and airfoil templates.

The only thing left to procure to build this sucker over the winter will be a canopy. Can anyone tell me the difference between the XLT canopy and the Escape/ Great Escape??? I am thinking they are the same and hope Bluejay will sell me one.

Brian



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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 2:03 PM   
doxilia



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Status: offline 		Brian,

by the time you are done fixing the canopy to accommodate the pipe, I'd venture there will be marginal difference, if any, between the XLT canopy and the GE's.

Go for it!

Let's see some pics of that X61! Square head or round head? Here are a couple of snaps of a square head installed in a Calypso and a German review article of Hanno's engine.

Looking at the Calypso again, which belongs to a buddy in Europe, I realize he embedded and covered the servos into the wing... interesting, it seems to be something builders like to do in Europe. Mike did the same on his Aurora scratch build. Might consider it for my next 60 build.

David.

P.S. Thanks for your conservation contribution.

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< Message edited by doxilia -- 8/9/2011 2:25 PM >

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 3:12 PM   
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Status: offline 		It's a round head. It looks exactly like the pic you posted.

I should be getting it in a week or so in the mail...

David- I would liked to have given more, and probably will as I am able. The work you are doing is worthwhile, and worth our investment.

Brian

p.s. Did I mention I was excited about this purchase????

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 3:38 PM   
Jim Oliver



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes

Boy am I greatful to my wife!!!!

Because of her, I now have a ST. series X .61 Rear Exhaust engine to install in my Great Escape or Escape. (I am leaning towards the GE now.)
I am in heaven!!!!

Oh boy... imagine pumping it with that big, beautiful, quiet tuned pipe.... (insert Tim Allen grunt here)

I have the plans, instruction book, and airfoil templates.

The only thing left to procure to build this sucker over the winter will be a canopy. Can anyone tell me the difference between the XLT canopy and the Escape/ Great Escape??? I am thinking they are the same and hope Bluejay will sell me one.

Brian




Brian,
So-you're the one???

My NIB ST 61 X has the round, concave head like David's pic, but doesnt have the tiny hole at the 12:00 position on the exhaust stub. I did get the finned aluminum exhaust connector with mine.

Cheers,
Jim

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 3:40 PM   
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Yup. Sorry.

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 3:46 PM   
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Status: offline 		No problem; if I had known it was one of "us", I would have stayed out of it. Glad you got it!

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 3:51 PM   
Jim Oliver



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Any chance we could get the ST 61 X article translated to english? I would very much like to know something about the engine I have.

Thanks,
Jim

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 3:55 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes

It's a round head. It looks exactly like the pic you posted.

I should be getting it in a week or so in the mail...

Cool! Then it must look like the one below. I was looking for a header for a new blue head that I have and I came across this engine which had its header JB welded to the exhaust flange. I bought the header for $40 but it came with the engine attached...

The engine is clearly not new but apparently runs well. I completely disassembled it and cleaned it up as best I could (first four as received, next five after cleanup). Ideally I would have liked to get the header separated from the engine and re-installed properly but I decided not to mess with it as I didn't want to crack the aluminum of the header.

I should mention that these engines have an exhaust flange that make it tricky to adapt any header to them. For example, Rossi headers, which have a wide "mouth", don't fit; they are too narrow. You can see in the second pic of the review the custom made flexible header and pipe produced by ST for the engine. Someone with TIG welding equipment should be able to produce a header attachment "ring" to mate to a standard fuse top header with its flange cut off for your GE.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes
David- I would liked to have given more, and probably will as I am able. The work you are doing is worthwhile, and worth our investment.

Any contribution is appreciated. It's a long term project requiring many man hours. Fortunately there have been others who have been interested in the project and willingly contributed to the "reverse engineering" portion of it. The Aurora, Curare, Skymaster and, now, Blue Angel are quite close to design completion but we're still missing that last extra mile before we can get to producing a cut version. Hopefully we'll get there before Xmas. In any case, when we do, the Aurora and Blue Angel I think will be well worth it and very cool 30 size models while the Curare and Skymaster will be true to the original MK kits.

Any future contributions as you are able to are also appreciated. When it comes to building your GE, I might be able to help a little there too with some further design work (e.g., for laser cut formers and fuse sides if you need them). It might also be worth placing your GE airfoil templates into CAD in order to insure you cut symmetrical wings from electronic templates. Hand drawn templates from real cores are perfectly acceptable but usually not 100% accurate - not that they are essential. It would just be nice to have electronically accurate airfoil templates especially if you plan to produce them out of aluminum with your buddy.

David.


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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 4:02 PM   
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ORIGINAL: Pattern Student
Brian,
So-you're the one???

My NIB ST 61 X has the round, concave head like David's pic, but doesnt have the tiny hole at the 12:00 position on the exhaust stub. I did get the finned aluminum exhaust connector with mine.

Cheers,
Jim

Peachy! Well done Jim.

Brian, you should be all set then.

Here are a couple of pics of my new Blue Head. Note this version also has the hole in the exhaust flange. This is presumably a model that came out just prior to Hanno's X61 TST silver head version. This one is marked as an X60 rather than X61. I'd venture the TST version is slightly more bored (thinner sleeve) or it could be the head results in slightly more stroke to yield the maximum allowed F3A displacement of 10 cc at the time for Hanno's Magic.

Oh, the other blue head is an X25. Perfect fit in a glass fuse Blue Angel 20...

David.


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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 4:08 PM   
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Status: offline 		That is the one! I may have to farm out the welding work for the header if needed. I don't know anyone for that, so I'll have to investigate it and put the word out. I don't have the special connector from ST either... If any has one they'd like to separate with, let me know.

quote:

It would just be nice to have electronically accurate airfoil templates especially if you plan to produce them out of aluminum with your buddy.


Unfortunately, that ship has sailed.

I need help figuring out cad, so I may not be able to generate them perfectly to that extent. I do have templates from the original thanks to Jim though! I am curious how they match up the the Escape templates.

Brian

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 4:19 PM   
doxilia



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ORIGINAL: Pattern Student

No problem; if I had known it was one of ''us'', I would have stayed out of it. Glad you got it!

Jim

Oops! Does that mean that Jim didn't sell you the engine Brian? If so, yours might not come with the header...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pattern Student
David,

Any chance we could get the ST 61 X article translated to english? I would very much like to know something about the engine I have.

Thanks,
Jim

Sure! Do you speak German?

No, actually, I should be able to get someone who does to translate it but obviously some of the language is technical and a non modeler German speaking person might not know all the English terms. Words like bore and stroke, etc, etc. I actually get the general gist of it. It is a basic description of the tech specs of the engine - a short stroke (24 mm bore, 22 mm stroke), 9.98 ccm capacity able to turn 2K-18K rpm and produce 1.38 kW (1.87 bhp) of power. There is mention of it being designed or intended for use with Kato's (MK's) variable pitch prop which Hanno used on his Magic and able to turn that prop at ~12K rpm - presumably at max pitch which I think approximated a 12x8 fixed pitch prop. There is also discussion of it being of ABC type design. The rest is not very clear to me.

If anyone on the forum speaks German, they might be able to help. I think that Bo in Sweden speaks and/or reads pretty good German, Bo?

I suppose I ought to post the article on the engine forum.

David.

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 4:36 PM   
doxilia



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That is the one! I may have to farm out the welding work for the header if needed. I don't know anyone for that, so I'll have to investigate it and put the word out. I don't have the special connector from ST either... If any has one they'd like to separate with, let me know.

I shouldn't say but Don, of course, is pretty good at that stuff. He has mentioned that he would help with a wrap around header for an inverted OS 32SX I'm using on a Mystic. He might be able to make a couple (or probably more) of fuse top headers for our X6x's. I know there are others with this engine in search of headers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes
quote:

It would just be nice to have electronically accurate airfoil templates especially if you plan to produce them out of aluminum with your buddy.


Unfortunately, that ship has sailed.

I need help figuring out cad, so I may not be able to generate them perfectly to that extent. I do have templates from the original thanks to Jim though! I am curious how they match up the the Escape templates.

Brian

No problem. Alum templates are not really needed. Good old ply or mica will do it. Helping someone to figure out CAD might take considerably longer than just doing the work. Two separate tasks I'd say. If you are interested in CAD Brian, a good place to start might be the thread that Bryan started on the forum. It's got quite a few details on how different functions work and all that. Many commands are common between different CAD packages. For example AutoCAD and DraftSight. I'd download a copy of DraftSight and start to fool around with it until you figure out what the different tools do and how you can draw simple straight lines and such. That's how I figured it out a few years ago.

If you are able to scan the drawn GE templates with a scale marker on them (e.g., 0-6" line) and send me the electronic files I can help to generate the electronic airfoils and overlay them with the Escape airfoils to compare them. I'd probably just go ahead and draw a GE wing plan like I did for the Escape. I tend to be motivated to do that stuff when a build is afoot though.

Gosh! I just realized I forgot to include a scale reference on the Escape wing plan I drew and sent you. Will correct that and resend to you.

David.


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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/9/2011 9:14 PM   
Jim Oliver



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Status: offline 		David,
I picked out the bore/stroke data and the rpm range; also the bit about Hanno's vari-prop. There are some phrases that refer to longstroke-like capability that I need more insight on. I have an Escape nearly finished with a NIB Webra LS and a Great Escape kit that I have been pondering an engine choice for; thought the ST 61 X might be good, if it will swing a big prop.

There are other options; and it's a while before a decision must be made.

Thanks,
Jim

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/10/2011 3:06 AM   
doxilia



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Status: offline 		Jim,

yea, it would be good to get the details of the article sorted out.

However, if it was swinging an MK variprop, I'd say it's capable of "long stroke" type performance. Anything 12x8 or larger strikes me as long stroke like.

If it was me, I'd have the X61 in the Escape and the Webra in the GE. I hear the Webra is a monster.

David.

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/10/2011 3:32 AM   
Jim Oliver



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Status: offline 		The Webra looks to be very strong. I have tried 3 different props "open face" on 15% Cool Power:
APC 12x8=11,600
APC 12x10=9.500
APC 11x10=11,400

The Escape is already set up for the Webra, I don't want to have to re-do the mount area (again!).
The engine is now broken in and I need to get the header and pipe on it and see what that give me; gonna be very good, I think.
I really would like to have torque curves for the Webra LS, would give me a better idea of which prop would be right for it.

At this point, I'm thinking about a Rossi Rear Exhaust .80 for the Great Escape, or maybe a Jett .90 FIRE, but probably don't need that much power.

Jim

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RE: Bridi Escape vs Bridi Great Escape - 8/10/2011 4:02 AM   
doxilia



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Status: offline 		Jim,

Rainedave (an old forum member who has been absent for a while) did some bench testing of both a Rossi RE as well as his RE Webra. The Webra 1030 must be a short stroke though. His figures on a pipe and an APC 11x8 were outstanding. Almost 14.5K. Check this out:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8797318

I didn't know that Rossi was producing RE 80's. Have any info on that?

Must be the ducted fan bored out 60 engines with RR carbs?

David.

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