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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/1/2012 2:54 AM   
callide


 

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Status: offline 		Will the e-flite electric retracts designed for the H9 corsair have enough power to retract a robo strut with a 3.5 inch robart wheel.

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/1/2012 3:24 AM   
da Rock



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ORIGINAL: callide

Will the e-flite electric retracts designed for the H9 corsair have enough power to retract a robo strut with a 3.5 inch robart wheel.



You got 2 major players there. The Robart Wheel/tires weigh between 5.6 and 6 ounces for a pair. A pair of Dave Brown lights the same size are around 2 ounces for a pair. The wheel/tires you get in the average ARF are about 4 ounces for a pair. That's just one player.

Robart struts for a 60 size warbird are about 4.5 ounces for the pair. They are the real player here.

E-Flite shipped 3.5" wheels in my recently finished 50 size corsair. They don't seem worried at all about recommending their electric retracts for that airplane so it's sensible to assume they believe the wheel won't be too much load. Whether or not the struts are the straw that breaks the Camel's back is yet to be seen by anyone around here. We've got a couple of guys running the retracts with those heavy wheels, but nobody with both the wheel and the struts.

BTW, the wheels that came in my 50 Corsair ARF are definitely the same as Robart sells. The only minor difference is the Robarts tires have Goodyear on one side and Continental on the other. The pair that came in the ARF have Hangar 9 on them.

I decided to put Dave Brown wheels on my Corsair and use the wires provided with the ARF. I've been replacing one set of electrics after another it seems like the entire summer, trying to get WingSpans to work and I've run out of patience and optimism. I figured to give my E-Flites only 2 ounces to move instead of 6 or 10. I'm really not prepared for them to not work. Not even close. The plane would have maidened this week, but things around the house got in the way. anyway........

Hope someone has experience that'll answer your question. That someone will have had to been running Robart or H9 wheels and Robart struts. Anyone??????????

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/8/2012 5:13 AM   
Hoghead385


 

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Status: offline 		da Rock, I'm interested in the E-flite electrics for this bird also, with or w/o the struts. My Wingspans are not really working out, lot of play rotationally when down and locked and one has just plain stopped working? And it has never flown! I hope someone using the E-Flites will chime in on the subject, like you, I'm ready to maiden this bird before the good flying weather is gone.

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/8/2012 11:45 AM   
da Rock



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ORIGINAL: Hoghead385

da Rock, I'm interested in the E-flite electrics for this bird also, with or w/o the struts. My Wingspans are not really working out, lot of play rotationally when down and locked and one has just plain stopped working? And it has never flown! I hope someone using the E-Flites will chime in on the subject, like you, I'm ready to maiden this bird before the good flying weather is gone.



The E-Flites on the H9 50size Corsair should be tested Tues or Friday this week. (The masons are almost finished with the wall and porch.) That Corsair will weigh 7lb 6oz as it taxiis out and when it comes in for a landing. The 5000 mAh battery won't be losing any weight during the flight. My 60size Corsair weighs 7lb 13oz with an empty fuel tank, but probably does not weigh significantly more when landing.

I would say the E-Flites don't seem as robust as any of the previous retracts I've had in the Corsair or Hellcat so far (and the Hellcat has had about 6 different sets through it so far) but by golly if the E-Flites stand up without trouble for a couple of outings, the Hellcat will get a pair in the sucker for sure. (man, am I tired of replacing the retracts in that wing... you'd think I'd put air in the sucker)

It was very long ago that Lado said they were working on the retrofit 100s. WingSpan's original 100s have been a continuing, losing battle. Nobody seems to have tried their entirely new 100s. This summer was basically wasted and it's time to move on. I didn't get to a single Warbird flyin as a flyer. aaarrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/8/2012 11:48 AM   
da Rock



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Status: offline 		BTW, the E-Flites should get a workout October 20 at the RCWinger's 2012 War Bird Fly-In. I figure to take along either my Spit or Thunderbolt, and hopefully the 50Size Corsair.

If any of you are in the Mooresville NC area that weekend................ 429 Patterson Farm Rd, Mooresville, NC www.rcwingers.com

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/8/2012 3:53 PM   
Hoghead385


 

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Status: offline 		The Wingspan units I'm having trouble with are the newly released 100s. Lot of rotational play when down and locked and one unit would work, not work and finally gave up the ghost. I'm running the Hangar 9 wheels and wire struts only, no Robart strut upgrade. Like the idea of electrics as I don't have to worry about leaks and support gear for the air units but I would like to get this bird in the air?? Looking forward to your flight report on the units da Rock!

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/8/2012 4:14 PM   
da Rock



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoghead385

The Wingspan units I'm having trouble with are the newly released 100s. Lot of rotational play when down and locked and one unit would work, not work and finally gave up the ghost. I'm running the Hangar 9 wheels and wire struts only, no Robart strut upgrade. Like the idea of electrics as I don't have to worry about leaks and support gear for the air units but I would like to get this bird in the air?? Looking forward to your flight report on the units da Rock!


Jimminy crickets... That's not good to hear. I was about to give up waiting and order those suckers, figuring they'd learned what they needed to do better from their 1st design.

This industry seems to be over their head right now. Nuts..........

What worries me is that a buddy and I bought these 50size Corsairs at the same time, planning to have a pair to fly in formation at warbird fly-ins. He beat me completing his, and that includes replacing one of his EFlite units that only worked once. The replacement worked the one outing since, but....

Mine have worked every time while assembling, but I use an old 4.8 NiCd flight pack doing that. Haven't even had an appropriate voltage flight battery. I've just now gotten the LiPo and am building it's box in the fuselage. Haven't run the system yet to see how it'd do when loaded for bear. The 3rd set of WingSpans tried in the Hellcat worked great on the bench, and I cycled them good. The first time out, one of them burned out on the second taxi out. This electric retract business needs better mfg's. Or retailers who better control their suppliers.

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/8/2012 4:33 PM   
glazier808



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Status: offline 		I agree, I've been looking for a goof proof set of electrics for a bit now, it seems that down and locked are the only guys with a system that works with regularity.

Pricy though.

Casey

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/10/2012 2:58 PM   
Hoghead385


 

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Status: offline 		Looks like I'm going to go broke purchasing/testing electric retracts?? With the flying season dwindling down may have to invest in yet another set of retracts, this time air. Don't want to wait till spring to fly the bent wing bird!

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/11/2012 2:24 PM   
da Rock



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoghead385

Looks like I'm going to go broke purchasing/testing electric retracts?? With the flying season dwindling down may have to invest in yet another set of retracts, this time air. Don't want to wait till spring to fly the bent wing bird!


So what brand of air retracts offers 100degree extension?


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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/11/2012 2:28 PM   
Rod_Hart


 

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Status: online 		Here you go.

http://www.sierragiant.com/prod30.html

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/11/2012 2:46 PM   
da Rock



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Status: offline 		I flew the 50 size Corsair equipped with the EFlites yesterday. Only got one flight in thanks to the wind. The plane flies great. I'm using a RimFire 60 turning a 3blade Master Airscrew and it has more than enough power. The 5000mAh 18.5V LiPo appears to be larger than needed but there weren't any 4000s in stock.

The maiden started ok. Needed some elevator trim to get level flight. Nothing else. Ran around on half throttle most of the time, checking roll rate and pitch rate and such. Mostly did photo passes for the guys. It appears to have no stall characteristics at all. OK, with the wind we had, I could get it to zero ground speed so all I found out was it really isn't very apt to stall at landing speeds.

Of course, the wind wasn't just up, it was bumpy too. First pass was beautiful coming down the final, right into a big boil over the numbers. Powered out and did a big circuit to let the model airplane gods get bored and forget about stirring the boil. Didn't wait long enough. So did the 2nd go round. Decided to give the air a little time to wear itself out. Checked out the rudder response. Yup, typical Corsair. Got rudder couples. I got tired before the model airplane gods, and decided to come in hot. That worked. Pulled power right after the numbers and she slowed decently. Touched down a bit long and the wind dies at the same time. The model airplane gods never give up. So the little Corsair rolls awhile, slows and reaches the overrun grass. Nose slowly tips down and she sits there in a "forward 3 pointer". Cute. And acceptable for a maiden in what got to be ugly wind. Everybody decides it's time to go home as I walk out to pick the little beauty up.

Turns out that running into the grass bent one gear strut right at the trunion. Guess that one coil of the strut for shock absorption doesn't do anything. Or it's too close to where the strut is supported by the trunion. No problem. When I get home I'll pull the weak wire, bend a couple of new ones with good wire and be done with it. Right. Wrong.

When I got home..........

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/11/2012 3:04 PM   
da Rock



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Status: offline 		When I got home I discovered a lot of things.

I figured I'd pull the bent strut wire. Turns out the collar that holds the wire in the trunion, the one that also holds the rotating pin, has a gib screw in it for looks. It's for looks or is there to aid the assembly process. When you loosen it, the collar doesn't budge. Apparently the collar is soldered or glued. It appears to be soft metal, as it burrs quite readily if you try to pry it off after removing the gib screw.

So I resigned myself to not replacing the lousy wire with good. And prepared myself to find out if the trunion and supporting mechanism will stand up to bending the strut back while it's still installed. The bend came out easily. Very easily. The coil barely moved.

Unfortunately, when the wing was hooked back up on the plane, the gear wouldn't twist as it retracted. It turns out (pun intended) the other collar on the strut holds an indexing tension coil spring underneath it down in the trunion where you don't notice it. It turns out (pun repeated) the gib screw on that collar wasn't completely tight. Evidently, when I put force into the strut to straighten it, that collar took some stress.

It took me a couple of gear cycles to realize the collar had slipped and what that tiny hole in it suggested.

My guess right now is the system has some weak points and I'm not going to be able to retrofit them out. I see now why the EFlites cost a lot less. It's going to be really hard to keep them going if you fly a lot.

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/11/2012 3:28 PM   
da Rock



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ORIGINAL: Rod_Hart

Here you go.

http://www.sierragiant.com/prod30.html



You know, I'd seen those before, but wrote them off. They're 16 ounces for just the mechanism, not including the air supply stuff. That's a whole lot of weight.

They are an option for sure, but all my 60 warbirds have come out around 7 pounds and gear that'd be 1/8 the all-up weight finished isn't something I'd do.



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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/11/2012 3:31 PM   
Lifer


 

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Status: offline 		I've got a set of these Sierras in my P-40. It is heavy, but they have been utterly trouble-free.

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 10/11/2012 3:46 PM   
da Rock



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Status: offline 		There are presently a lot of options available for retracts. I've got servo driven mechanicals that were really no problem once I realized how to arrange the bellcranks and adjust the linkages. I just sold a Warhawk I'd built about 10 years ago. Never had a problem once I'd moved the CG aft to get acceptable ground handling. (Moving the CG to suit flying first and ground handling second taught me a couple of lessons too.)

If anyone makes a 100degree, rotating mechanical with decent tolerances, all these recent purchases will be on the table at the next swapshop. Unless someone comes up with the following:

Weight matters to me. Reliability matters. I fly a lot so they need to be robust enough to last. I really like the simplicity that at least one electric offers. Unfortunately, it only extends 90 degrees.

Right now I've found something that does it all for me for my P47 and Spitfire. There isn't anything that comes close for the F4U (2 of them right now), F6F, or P40. And worse yet, there aren't any servo driven mechanicals for those 3 either.

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 11/20/2012 1:38 AM   
mike boxtall


 

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Status: offline 		Has anyone ever disgustingly over powered one of these birds yet? I have a Saito 150 sitting idle in my garage. The bird is ordered as well as the electric robart retracts. The motor will fit and it is going in. Just curious to exchange notes with someone who has done this.

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 11/20/2012 2:07 PM   
Hoghead385


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Mike, I'm putting a Saito 100 in mine and it should fly great. I've seen a couple of the TF Corsairs fly with the 100 and they do pull them around with authority, the 150 should be a rocket! I've been thinking about the Robart electrics for a while now, which ones did you order - the 553RSE 100 rotating?

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 11/20/2012 3:00 PM   
da Rock



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Status: offline 		Tower advertised them for $399 when they came out, didn't they?

Just ordered one for $299. Check out the Tower website.

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 11/20/2012 3:33 PM   
mike boxtall


 

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Status: offline 		I'm not actually sure what the part number is. The LHS is ordering me one at the discounted price. Cannot wait to get it!

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 11/20/2012 5:53 PM   
Hoghead385


 

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Status: offline 		Da Rock, I guess I'm going to try one more set of electrics before I look at air! Here I go again?

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 11/20/2012 9:10 PM   
da Rock



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoghead385

Da Rock, I guess I'm going to try one more set of electrics before I look at air! Here I go again?



There is a Robart 100degree retract for the Corsair. If Lado doesn't come out with their promised 100degree/90rotators before I get the ARF almost assembled, AND I haven't seen at least one reliable set of Wingspans in regular use by then, my plan is to try the Robarts.

This is really one disappointing little niche in the hobby, isn't it.

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 11/21/2012 5:52 AM   
Hoghead385


 

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Status: offline 		After reading Mike's post I called Robart customer service and spoke with one of the tech guys. At the present time, they do not have a 100 electric retract for the 60 size Corsair or a conversion unit for the air 100 degree retracts. If all goes well and all R & D is good, the new electric units should be out end of December. Fingers crossed!

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 11/21/2012 7:32 PM   
mike boxtall


 

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Status: offline 		After reading Hoghead's post I decided to do some investigation of my own. Apparently the person at my LHS ordered some eflite retracts. (Grumbles to self) also the retracts ordered we're not the rotating kind needed (again, grumbles to self). So, crisis averted and I have the pneumatics ordered. As well as the retractable tail wheel. Still cannot wait to get it. However I would have prefered a robart electric option. (Subtly grumbling still). My apologies for the miscommunication.

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RE: I Saw it! TF 60 Size Corsair ARF!!!!! - 11/21/2012 9:02 PM   
da Rock



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Status: offline 		Rumor I heard in the LHS today was that Robart has suggested their electric version of the 100degree/rotators might make it 'the end of the year'.

OK, I hear the mumbling going on in the background. Yeah, Lado said something back in the spring about having replacement trunions for their rotators, and they'd be 'soon'.

Man, this hobby could break a man's heart.

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