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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 8/14/2012 7:56 PM   
sidgates



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From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: online 		The blue tube (gunk) does not extend through the root plywood rib, it is only inside the stab. I managed to get ahold of the blue tube with needle nose and pull it out by twisting it. Now that it is out I can see it probably should extend through the root plywood rib because the hole in the plywood rib is larger than the 6mm carbon spar tube.

With the damaged blue tube out I can now run the carbon spar tube all the way into the stab.

Another problem is the main carbon stab spar tube is not parallel with the wing spar so the stab would be badly tilted (8-10 degrees) if I use the existing holes in the fuselage. While I have the fuselage jigged on my flat table I measured one end the the long stab spar tube to be slightly over 1/4" higher than the the other end. This will be fairly easy to fix by filling the hole in the fuselage and redrilling.

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 8/14/2012 9:34 PM   
essyou35


 

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Status: offline 		Been there, done that, it flies as is! I left my holes where they were drilled and it flies with no trim.

Man you guys in colorado sure like this jet. I think 90% were sold there!

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 8/15/2012 12:16 AM   
sidgates



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quote:

ORIGINAL: sidgates

The blue tube (gunk) does not extend through the root plywood rib, it is only inside the stab. I managed to get ahold of the blue tube with needle nose and pull it out by twisting it. Now that it is out I can see it probably should extend through the root plywood rib because the hole in the plywood rib is larger than the 6mm carbon spar tube.

With the damaged blue tube out I can now run the carbon spar tube all the way into the stab.

Another problem is the main carbon stab spar tube is not parallel with the wing spar so the stab would be badly tilted (8-10 degrees) if I use the existing holes in the fuselage. While I have the fuselage jigged on my flat table I measured one end the the long stab spar tube to be slightly over 1/4'' higher than the the other end. This will be fairly easy to fix by filling the hole in the fuselage and redrilling.



I didn't have to fill the hole. I just took a dremel cutting tool to the lower edge of the hole on the right side and had cut out about 1/64" to get the stab spar parallel with the wing and then epoxy it in.

Since I have the fuse in an accurate jig on my table I notice the left wing leading edge is about 1/64" low where it mates with the fuselage. I think more than one have reported needing a little right aileron on the first flight. This may account for the trim needed.

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 9/3/2012 5:16 PM   
Flilek


 

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From: Dudelange, LUXEMBOURG
Status: offline 		Hello all,

I am flying mostly from grass. Therefore I have other problems than people flying from tarmac.

Here my newest problem and how I solved it.

The rear former holding the wood rails of the front gear broke while taxiing. (See annexed photo)

The wood rail came lose. I imagine the rails pushing upwards create a moment of torque that breaks the former on its weakest place.

The solution is a connection between both rails. In that case, the torque is accepted by the bridge and not by the former sides.

I cut out a piece of plywood and glued it in place. (see photo) What you see on the wood is residues of cotton fibre mixed to resin for strength.

Feel free to give it a try

Flilek


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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 9/4/2012 12:19 AM   
essyou35


 

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Status: offline 		Cool man, I also fly from grass and my are connected, by a mounting board I made for all the stuff liek UAT and fueld pump etc,

Yes that former is weak though, but the weakest point is the main gear.

I just trippled up my wing formers around the spar and gear, and also glassed my wings. Just from transporting the wings I would get crackes in the sheeting, mine was brittle for some reason. Problem solved.

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 10/15/2012 6:23 PM   
RAMFlyer



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Status: offline 		Need a set of retracts, struts, wheels, brakes!  Anyone have an "extra" set they would part with?? 

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 10/15/2012 9:36 PM   
Flilek


 

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From: Dudelange, LUXEMBOURG
Status: offline 		With the new former, I had some hard landings in strong crosswind and no wood has been damaged.
It seems that my wood in the wings is stronger than yours

Flilek

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 10/29/2012 4:16 PM   
essyou35


 

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Status: offline 		Just an update, I have about 100 flights on my f-86D. I fly it 3-10 times per week. I only fly it 5 mins then land, but I have learned to fly it scale "grandma style" and I can go for about 8 mins.

I am looking to replace it soon but its hard given how well it flies off grass. Great jet, loving it.

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 10/29/2012 5:08 PM   
Flilek


 

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From: Dudelange, LUXEMBOURG
Status: offline 		Hi,

I have now around 50 flights on my Sabre.
I love it for its simple handling and the tight flying you can do.
When I tried to find the limits on tight turns, I was surprised by a stall. Next flight, I reduced slightly the throw on the elevator and its perfect now.
I never used flaps for starting.
I'm flying normally 5 minutes and half the fuel is still left.
I will only put a short aluminium tube in the front strut to have a little bit more preload on the spring to get it stiffer when flying from grass.

Have a look at a video, a friend took on our last invitational flying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GuJWk9GM3c

Best regards

Flilek

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 10/29/2012 8:23 PM   
Bob_B



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Status: online 		Flilek very nice flying!

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 10/29/2012 9:52 PM   
sidgates



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Status: online 		Flilek,
Very nice flight and good video. What engine are you running in the F-86D?

Sid

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 10/29/2012 11:01 PM   
Flilek


 

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From: Dudelange, LUXEMBOURG
Status: offline 		Hello,

I fly a Wren Supersport with Kerostart.

Dry weight is 7.8kg vs 18 lbs of trust. It's largely enough to fly. I just want the trust for starting on grass fields.


Flilek

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 11/6/2012 3:07 PM   
essyou35


 

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Status: offline 		Well guys I sold my f-86D off cheap. Its been a good airframe and I am probably a fool for selling it. But I decided I want something fast as an every day grass flyer. So I am getting the Jet Legend viper jet and the new K100 turbine.

The dog got me into turbines and she's been great. Landings are perfect everytime. I'm just tired of an 8S habu 32 passing me

This was never meant for speed and for anyone thinking of getting one you cant go wrong with this airframe. It is great for grass ops too. Got about 100 flights in 4 months. Was out flying it at least twice a week in the summer with about 3-5 flights per trip. All my EDF are collecting dust.

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 11/8/2012 4:55 PM   
RAMFlyer



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Status: offline 		What iron-on covering have you guys found that best matches the color on the wings?  I need to do a bit of surgery on some soft balsa and don't want the patches to stand out, if possible...

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 12/8/2012 8:51 PM   
jetjockey


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Guys, I just started working on a Modelbau F86 Dog Saber and am ready to mount the wings. I decided to check the incidence angle from the tail to the wings, and was very pleased to find it was within the specs outlined in the manual, however, I was dismayed to find the wings have 2 degrees washIN from root to tip. I've been building and flying R/C aircraft for over 40 years and washOUT is the standard to use. In cutting numerous foam wings over the years (straight, tapered, and ellictptical for sport, and WW2 prop warbirds) I usually use about 2 degrees washout from root to tip. The video on the F86 shows it to fly pretty decently, but the 2 degrees washIN is a new one on me. Did any of the rest of your kits come this way, and does it fly OK? Am I missing something with a swept wing and the washIN?

Any experiences you guys would share with me on the flying characteristics with washIN would be most appreciated

Thanks in advance, Les

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 12/8/2012 9:32 PM   
essyou35


 

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Status: offline 		Just fly it. by the time you fly turbines you should not be relying on washout etc, just use energy management and don't stall it out. It will snap if stalled but the stall speed is like 10 mph.

We can find things all day long wrong with it. it flies fine and no mods are really needed. If you plan to keep it, glass the wings, the balsa on mine was brittle.

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 12/8/2012 9:53 PM   
jetjockey


 

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Status: offline 		I appreciate the info on the wing. I have been flying turbines for the last 10 years, but with the exception of a BVM Bobcat (wooden wings which I built), I've been flying composite ARFs out of the box, and only checked wing incidence, not washout since they all were proven designs. Don't know why I checked this one, except for curiosity, I guess. Good news, I plan on keeping this one for an every day flyer, but have made some mods to make it more scale.

I currently have flying an Avonds F15, two CARF Rookies (old and new with canards), a Modelbau Tornado, Facet, CARF Mig 15, and am working on a Skymaster F4 - took some time off of the F4 to do the F86D since I need a smaller everyday flyer for a P70.

I appreciate the fast response and information on the F86. Sure like it, but was a little concerned about the washin. Thanks for helping out.

Regards. Les

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 12/9/2012 12:41 AM   
mtnflyer14



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quote:

ORIGINAL: essyou35

just use energy management and don't stall it out. It will snap if stalled but the stall speed is like 10 mph.




C'mon - it is NOT 10 MPH. You are setting him up for failure. I have to quantify my comment with the fact that my field is over 6500' MSL, but 10 MPH? Get serious.
Regards,
Gus

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 12/9/2012 6:39 AM   
essyou35


 

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Status: offline 		I didnt actually mean it as a hard number but simply a statement that this thing can land pretty slow with that huge fat wing.

I dont think k I am setting him up for failure, hes been doing this 10 years. I swear though mine would land at 10mph. I got good enough I could land it without breaks on a 400 foot runway. Regardless, the stall is under 20 mph for sure. SO perhaps is somewhere 10-20mph but I never measured.

I do tend to land much faster though because of the nasty stall it does have. ANd yes I did tip stall mine and ripped the gear out once, in a naty cross wind.

The cross wind handling of this jet is horrible. THe coupling on the rudder to the roll is also very pronounced, I could do a circuit with rudder and elevator only. I could never knfe edge because I never had enough aileron throw to stop the full rudder throw from rolling it back over.

I sold mine off at aroudn 100 flights, I flew it that much in 4 months. I really liked it and its a great every day flyer assuming no cross wind. THe dutch roll is very prnounced and I needed 50% gain on my gyro to counter it.

Other than that with a K80 I could fly at about 4-5mins before pushing the tanks dry, but I tend to be heavy on the throttle. I also think my K80 was a fuel hog for some reason. I started adding a 3rd tank but then it suddenly sold.

I cannot recommend flying upside down becuase of the tank geometry the UAT will suck air fast. Make dang sure you pressure test the tanks with the pressure you will fill them with. They like to leak.

The turbine and jet are both gone replaced by a viper jet and a K100.


Any other questions about flying ask away. Building wise these guys know what they are doing, I just followed them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mtnflyer14


quote:

ORIGINAL: essyou35

just use energy management and don't stall it out. It will snap if stalled but the stall speed is like 10 mph.




C'mon - it is NOT 10 MPH. You are setting him up for failure. I have to quantify my comment with the fact that my field is over 6500' MSL, but 10 MPH? Get serious.
Regards,
Gus



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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 12/9/2012 1:06 PM   
Flilek


 

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From: Dudelange, LUXEMBOURG
Status: offline 		Hi,

The washout is not critical.

When you set crow for landing, the washout is gone.

I still have to correct crow to elevator mix. My plane has a pitch up tendency when using crow on middle speed.

Have a look at a video of my Dog Sabre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GuJWk9GM3c

Fliek



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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 12/9/2012 2:39 PM   
mtnflyer14



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Status: offline 		SU35,
I agree with everything you said on handling of the F-86. Have you flown the viper and K-100 yet? I bought a used F-15C from Shaun at Yellow Aircraft and bought the K-140 for it but have not ran it yet. I'm impressed you got 100 flights that fast in Nebraska - your wind is at least as bad as ours!
Regards,
Gus

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 12/9/2012 7:11 PM   
jetjockey


 

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Status: offline 		Yeah guys, I was pretty sure the washin was negated with the crow, which is a standard fix for a wing that tends to snap over when stalled, but I was only thinking that if the wing had washout instead of washin, crow probably wouldn't be needed. I'll probably just go with the crow since it is the quickest and easiest way to fix a wing issue rather than cut new foam wings with proper washout. After all, this is just a quick build everyday flyer for me anyway, but was surprised to find washin rather than washout when I measured it. I really didn't believe the 10 mph landing speed, but based on the videos I've seen, it does land pretty slow. Also a gyro is almost a must with a swept wing anyway - my Avonds F15 has one, and so does my CARF Mig 15, otherwise the dutch roll is really ugly to watch!

Thanks for all the advice and information. I'm pretty happy with what I've found so far in the kit, and think I'll enjoy flying it.

Regards, Les

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 12/9/2012 9:36 PM   
sidgates



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Status: online 		I just tried to check the wings on my kit and just checking the wing only is fairly difficult to be accurate but I concluded that my wings also have a very slight amount of "washin", I am confident there is no washout. I am very surprised that the wing is produced that way. I will probably use a little "crow" to offset the washin too.

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 12/9/2012 11:20 PM   
Flilek


 

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From: Dudelange, LUXEMBOURG
Status: offline 		Hi,

You can not only consider washout or washin. If the airfoil changes over the wingspan, you will have additional effects. If the section gets more cambered in direction to the wingtip, you need more washout because a cambered section creates lift on zero angle. So a more symertical section on the wingtip can require some washin to get zero lift over the whole wing.

Flilek

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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre - 12/10/2012 1:42 AM   
sidgates



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Status: online 		Flilek - I am not sure I understanding your comments. If you have a perfectly symetrical tip wouldn't it have zero lift at zero angle of attach. Concerning a high cambered tip foil, wouldn't it develope more lift than a thinner camber foil at the root when both are at zero angle of attach.

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