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Going from heli to plane - 4/7/2011 1:25 AM   
kyle 9


 

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Status: offline 		Hey guys! Cutrently I fly collective pitch helis and that's about it! I have flown planes in the sim from trainers to jets!
I know first hand from flying the helis that the sim is not exactly like real life flying!
With that being said, if I'm flying good on the sim and have experience flying collective pitch helis, do you think I could buy a plane that's not a trainer? Maybe more like a hangar 9 warbird or something on the lines of that?
I know you should start with high winged airplanes made of foam, but do you think I would be able to get away with a low winged wood constructed plane?
Thanks!

Kyle

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/7/2011 2:18 AM   
1320Fastback



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Status: offline 		Im gonna say maybe. Not doubting your skills as I am also a CP pilot and know how hard it is.

How much room do you have to land? Is it a club field? Do you have experienced help?

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/7/2011 5:13 AM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		Heli pilots seem to find going over to planes pretty easy but going right to a warbird?? Probably not the best idea. I would probably have you go into something like a stick, 4*, Pulse, something like that. Buddy box to learn then fly the covering off that plane then maybe move up to the warbird. Flying a warbird isn't a lot different from most planes but landing and ground handling is a bunch different. There is a big learning curve but you are a bit ahead of the game. Try a plane first then give it some thought.

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/7/2011 11:34 AM   
kiwibob72


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

Heli pilots seem to find going over to planes pretty easy but going right to a warbird?? Probably not the best idea. I would probably have you go into something like a stick, 4*, Pulse, something like that. Buddy box to learn then fly the covering off that plane then maybe move up to the warbird. Flying a warbird isn't a lot different from most planes but landing and ground handling is a bunch different. There is a big learning curve but you are a bit ahead of the game. Try a plane first then give it some thought.


I went from a 50 size heli to a 60 powered trainer .... was a VERY easy change to say the least.
If I was to do it again, a Hangar 9 Pulse XT 60 or a Great Planes Revolver 61-90 would be where I'd go to, something that is forgivable, but can handle aerobatics.

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/7/2011 11:51 AM   
CGRetired



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Status: online 		You said a biggie there, Kiwibob. A 60 size trainer is not a warbird.

Kyle: You may consider buying and building a warbird, which is ok, but build it and put it aside for a while.

I would highly recommend that you at least get something that gives some stick time with a timid, mild mannered type plane. With your experience, you already know the difference between right and left... meaning the AIRCRAFT right and left, which can be the hardest concept for someone new into flying can overcome.

You probably already know what I mean, but for those of you that do not (real beginners), when flying an RC aircraft, you stand at a fixed position on the ground, and fly something that is in the air. You have to consider that whatever you do with the controls, works with the plane, not the pilot. For instance, if it's coming toward you, well, if you want to turn right, well, is your right or the plane's right? Of course, it's the plane's right, but it moves to YOUR LEFT... from your vantage point on the ground.

Flying away from you is easy because both are the same. If the plane is moving across in front of you, one moment it is coming toward you and as it passes by, it is now going away from you.

Ok..ok..enough of that basic skills stuff, but it supports my point, and may help others understand that trying to do it on their own may not be a good choice. I will admit that some have succeeded, but at what cost?

Kyle, you already know the difference I am talking about here, so that level is something that you do not need to focus on, so one less load on your brain to overcome. The next would be speed, followed by approach and landing, not to mention emergency procedures.. you can't autorotate, for instance, with a fixed wing.

If it were me, I would opt for something like a Tiger 60 or Four Star 60 as your starting aircraft, and fly your first couple of flights with an instructor on a buddy box. You will quickly get the idea and move to solo almost right away. But, this type of aircraft will do wonders for you in your learning curve with fixed wing aircraft, and will go pretty far to prime you to fly something that is very unforgiving, such as a warbird.

Consider it, is all I ask.

CGr.

< Message edited by CGRetired -- 4/7/2011 12:54 PM >

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/7/2011 3:03 PM   
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Status: offline 		Kyle - if you got collective heli experience, my guess is you'll do fine moving to fixed wing. I also fly helis and if you have the hand eye coordination for helis, you'll probably be fine with airplanes. But I would stay away from warbirds. They look nice, but really they fly like crap. High wing loading means you have to keep the airspeed up and even with flaps, it's a handful on landing.

My suggestion is to pickup a Big Stick or one of its varients (H9 Ultra stick, etc). It's simple to build, reliable, can do any maneuver, and will even perform limited 3D. Most importantly, it's low maintenance and easy to fix. Huge wing means ultra low wing loading and it will crawl to a landing. If you must have a warbird, pickup a cheap Parkzone foamie. They are making really nice looking models now, even with retracts.

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/7/2011 5:15 PM   
opjose



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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwibob72


I went from a 50 size heli to a 60 powered trainer .... was a VERY easy change to say the least.
If I was to do it again, a Hangar 9 Pulse XT 60 or a Great Planes Revolver 61-90 would be where I'd go to, something that is forgivable, but can handle aerobatics.


Yup, good choice.

I trained someone ( now a friend ) at our club who is an experienced heli pilot.

It took a few touch and go's and circuits to get him acclimated to the Pulse XT.

He did OK after that, but tended to be far too touchy on the sticks. That started to go away after a while.
The biggest obstacle were landings. He tended to try to slam the plane down like heli pilots bring in their craft from a hover.

After one broken gear and repair, he was on his own doing very well.

However the last few times I saw him flying I kept seeing the tail of the Pulse wiggling all the time.

I grabbed it from him and found nothing wrong, no wiggle.

I realized that he was trying to guide the tail far too much, so I told him to avoid lateral left hand stick movements when flying normally.

Wiggles gone...

He likes the Pulse and is glad he didn't buy a trainer. He really didn't need it, given the help.




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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/7/2011 6:37 PM   
CGRetired



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Status: online 		It took me some time to figure that out, but once pointed out by my instructor, well, I realized that overcorrection was a beginners thing. However, I can see that with an experienced helicopter pilot trying to keep the nose pointed in one direction, always on the rudder.

I would try to correct every movement the plane was making. He told me to just let go of the sticks for a minute.. (a few seconds that is.. )the plane flew straight ahead. Ooook... so I started to leave the sticks alone for a while in straight lines, and, voila.. nice smooth movements of the aircraft.

It went great from that point on.

CGr.

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/7/2011 7:26 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		Heli pilots can learn planes very quickly, it doesn't seem to work the other way around as fast. I had to turn the sound off my sim because the crashing noise was busting up my wife. I still can't fly the silly things!!!![>:]I had a friend that went from flying pattern to the heli and turned into one of the best heli pilots I have seen. He liked scale and when he was flying he made it look real. Very impressive! When he was teaching someone to fly planes he was one of the smoothest pilots I have ever seen. He told me he got a lot smoother with planes after he got into the heli. I may give it another try sometime.

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/7/2011 8:23 PM   
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Status: offline 		Just a note that the current line of H9 warbirds fly a lot more like sport pattern planes than traditional overweight warbirds that have to land at 75mph or they snap in.

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/8/2011 12:39 AM   
daveopam



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Status: offline 		My friend went from a heli to a H9 Extra 230 with a DA-50. He lost it to a servo failure. This was not his fault, but there were several close calls prior to this that were his fault. He just got lucky. I always wondered if he had more airplane time under his belt could he could have saved the plane? This was his first problem with a plane and had thing happened a little slower he might have been OK.
So get a good sport plane and save the warbird for a year or two, and you should be fine.

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/8/2011 1:29 AM   
CGRetired



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

Heli pilots can learn planes very quickly, it doesn't seem to work the other way around as fast. I had to turn the sound off my sim because the crashing noise was busting up my wife. I still can't fly the silly things!!!![>:]I had a friend that went from flying pattern to the heli and turned into one of the best heli pilots I have seen. He liked scale and when he was flying he made it look real. Very impressive! When he was teaching someone to fly planes he was one of the smoothest pilots I have ever seen. He told me he got a lot smoother with planes after he got into the heli. I may give it another try sometime.


A few years ago, I had a student that was an avid RC car racer. He wanted to move into aircraft. He bought a second hand trainer and asked me if I could help him out.

I looked the plane over and took it up to check it's airworthyness... it was just fine. So, I landed and hooked up the buddy box. The first flight went very well. He got the orientation quickly and was flying pretty much on his own. We flew, I think it was three buddy box flights.

On the fourth flight, I didn't touch the main transmitter except to hold the trainer switch, and told him to take it around. He took off, flew several orbits.. he said to calm his nerves.. then landed it, pretty as you please.

I disconnected the buddy box and said, "Fly the plane, Captain". He took off, flew orbits, then landed. When he landed the smile on his face was priceless. I made him fly three more filghts, one with the buddy box, to give him instructions on emergency procedures, then told him he was ready to do things on his own. Andhe did. One year later, he was flying competition at the Sportsman level in Pattern.

He said the toughest part was the vertical movement. Horizontal was fine.. his car and truck RC background. It took him a very short time to catch on to the fact that he was now moving in both the horizontal as well as the vertical.. and he was just fine with it.

It can be done...

CGr.

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/8/2011 2:50 AM   
kyle 9


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks guys!!
What are some good examples of sport planes? Like extras ? Or the revolver 61-91? I really like that planes looks
Also what if i went with a scale high Wing plane? Maybe like a cub? Or I think it's call a hangar 9 toledo? Or a cessna? Something like that? I really don't care for a warbird too much, I just thought the 3D extras and revolvers would be much harder to fly?

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/8/2011 3:26 AM   
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Status: offline 		I do not know to much about cubs, I hear some of them are a bear on the ground. Not sure about a Cessna either but trike gear is way easier to learn.


If you really like the scale "look" and want a low wing that is way more then a trainer yet a lot more tolerant then a warbird. I am going to suggest the Great Planes, Piper Cherokee.

It is low wing sport model, comes with flaps, it is fast, more agile then a tiger 2, ( I own both ) and it is a superb flying plane capable of just about anything.

On low rates it is very docile, and does not tip stall easily, it almost always just drops the nose in a stall.


Flip on the high rates and it becomes one hell of an aerobatic machine.

I run a O.S. .55 AX in mine, and it is way more then enough engine, I had a .46 in it I sold, it was more then enough too . It is one of the fastest planes I own when propped for it.

And its purty

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/8/2011 4:09 PM   
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Status: offline 		A good Extra or Yak is easy to fly if your rates are low. Where there might be a problem is, they don't take a lot of abuse. I minor bump on landing can do serious damage. This does vary from company to company. The Seagull line is less expensive and more durable than most. It's also heavier and will not fly as good as say a Extreme Fight or Aero Works. ( these are gross generalizations of course)
I don't know what size plane you want, but some great second plane examples would be, Giant Super Sportster from Great Planes, The Tiger series from Goldberg, The Stick and Ultra Stick series. There are others, maybe if you talked about what size of plane and power source you wanted to use, you would get some other suggestions.
BTW, I would stay away from the Piper Cubs for now. These are calm wether planes that can be a bear to take off.

David

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/8/2011 4:50 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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Status: offline 		Your new airplane friends will be amazed and impressed that your left thumb is already trained to actually use the rudder

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/8/2011 5:18 PM   
opjose



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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyle 9

Thanks guys!!
What are some good examples of sport planes? Like extras ? Or the revolver 61-91? I really like that planes looks
Also what if i went with a scale high Wing plane? Maybe like a cub? Or I think it's call a hangar 9 toledo? Or a cessna? Something like that? I really don't care for a warbird too much, I just thought the 3D extras and revolvers would be much harder to fly?


While you may not need a trainer, don't over-estimate your capabilities.

The Toledo Special, Cubs, 3D Extras, etc. will still be beyond your initial capabilites and will likely end up smashed. ( Yes Cubs can land on a dime, but you should see the antics of beginners at our field with big cubs.... It's like watching albatrosses trying to land after they have forgotten how! )

A good "second" plane with mild aerobatic capabilities is what you'll need, and should also keep your interest.

A Pulse XT or something similiar might be a better choice. You'll have easy access to the engine as you learn to deal with the differences with plank flying.

I'd also recommend a Big Stik 60. These are easy to repair planes, that can slog through high winds with ease, yet land gently and easily.
Stiks are great fun-fly flyers too.

Even though I have a bunch of bigger and smaller aircraft my trusty Stik travels to the field more often than any other plane I own.
It's also the most banged up plane I own, but you would never know that it has crashed repeatedly by looking at it.... as the square fuselage shape is trivally easy to repair.







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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/8/2011 5:41 PM   
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Status: online 		My current and favorite is the Skylark 70. It is a fun to fly plane, yet is very forgiving, even to the point of "floating" but not like a trainer.

Mine has an OS .75 AX and can be as tame as a little puppy, however, it will do any of the aerobatic sequences of all but the most agressive Patten sequences. I use exponential and not dual rates. This way, I keep things very simple with soft responses for little inputs on the sticks, yet hard and agressive the more I push it.

This plane lands like a dream. In fact, one day, I was flying, not thinking, and took off and landed downwind. I kept wondering why my take-off's and landings were so darned long, but just thought it was me, so I kept flying. Once I landed, one of the guys said that I was doing some pretty nice downwind landings. Of course, I thanked him as though I was doing it on purpose.. refueled, and took off, this time into the wind... But, that plane made me look good.

Nice sport plane.

CGr.

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/9/2011 8:03 PM   
kyle 9


 

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Status: offline 		hey guys! thanks alot!
but the sizes i was looking at smallest planes from 40-50 size or possibly 60-90! if its like helis, bigger is better! i would like to stay less than $1500.00 if possible?
and yea i like the looks of scale warbird, sport, or not.
the companies i was mostly looking at were hangar 9 and great planes.
i like the look when the exhaust is the only thing showing from the engine, but not that big of a deal

and yea im not trying to say since i fly helis i can fly planes no problem, i know its going to be different but my landings on the sim i got down to not even bumps and im using extras, cessna, pretty much all the planes.

so any good suggestions that are scale, 40-50 smallest and 1500.00 possibly hangar 9 and great planes? or are there better companies out there

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/9/2011 10:31 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyle 9

hey guys! thanks alot!
but the sizes i was looking at smallest planes from 40-50 size or possibly 60-90! if its like helis, bigger is better! ..........


IMHO - The Hangar 9 Pulse XT 60 (almost 6 foot wide) or the Great Planes Revolver 70" ........ one of them will eventually be in my hangar, cheap, robust, and according to every person I have met with them, and every single review I have read - they fly great, track well, have a nice low wing loading for slower landings, will do basic aerobatics, and again IMO, look fantastic! AND they are both supplied with split wings so transport is easy!
Another option could also be the Pulse XT 125, it's bigger again than the 60 version (almost 2 meters wide), and has a huge range of motor options from .61 upwards (re the mfg page).

In a nutshell, I regret not getting one of these to begin with, as I now would not want/need to upgrade to one, as hardcore 3D (I own a nitro heli, and that hovers just fine! ) or pylon racing has no interest to me - so this is where I want to go with my flying right now, as scale will come later on!

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/9/2011 11:31 PM   
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Status: offline 		Since you are a new to airplanes pilot, and like big planes. This

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKJY0&P=0

and this http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZZH1&P=0

This plane no matter what size is awesome, the giant will have you non stop grinning for a year.

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/10/2011 3:47 AM   
kyle 9


 

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Status: offline 		Hey um i really dont know if i would want to get that one! i know your trying to help and i do appreciate all the help but i really hate the looks of the giant big stick . i know looks dont mean everything, but i would need to get one kinda scale looking if i wanted to try planes!

here the the ones i've been looking into. let me know if any are a forsure no so i can take them off my list!
Hangar 9:
Pulse XT 60
Pulse 125
RV-8
Funtana X 50 (is this too advanced... im not sure if its more like a pulse or more like an extra/3D plane)

Great Planes:
Cessna 182
Cherokee
RV-4 60
Revolver 40"/70"
Matt Chapman Eagle 580 46

thanks once again!! and is it the same with helis "bigger is better"?

kyle

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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/10/2011 4:48 AM   
acdii


 

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Status: offline 		Simple suggestion, since you like Warbirds, from my local HS, who also fly, there are the T28 Parkzones, and the Corsair Parkzone, for under $300 RTF. You can cut your teeth on those before going to the larger scale warbirds. There is also a T34 from Eflite that is a robust trainer that can take a beating.  I also fly helis's, not that good yet, working on it, but am going to get a T28 BNF micro the play with. If I do good, then I will spend the bucks on the Parkzone Corsair.  They have a PNP for $179, just need a transmitter and battery. I have the DX6i, just need the battery. If I get really good at it, the P51 from Eflite is a screamer, slow speed on that is something like 50 MPH.

Downside, the electrics can only get so big before their size exceeds the capabilities of the motors and batteries. Upside, all you need is a charger and some spare batteries to provide a lot of flying time. No field box, no fuel, no battery for the starter, no glo plug hotshot, no chicken stick, no pumps, no fine tuning before each flight. Just plug in the battery and take off.  


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RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/10/2011 4:50 AM   
Phoenixangel



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Joined: 1/29/2009
Last Login: 1/18/2013
From: Locust Grove, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah I figured you would not go for it.

Seriously, the pulse, cherokee, or cessna, are going to make you happy with aerobatic performance, the pulse and cherokee more then the cessna. The revolver is not a bad choice either. They can also be gentle enough to learn on, since you are a heli pilot you won't need gentle for long and they progress right into serious aerobatics.

Some of them on your list are twitchy, with a high stall speed, and to light to take many hard landings, and you ARE going to have some of those.

But, I think if you just pick one, and get some help for the first few landing and the take off roll with a tail dragger. You will do fine.

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(in reply to kyle 9)
       Post #: 24

RE: Going from heli to plane - 4/10/2011 4:17 PM   
daveopam



Posts: 6652
Score: 191
Joined: 10/10/2002
Last Login: 5/18/2013
From: ELK CITY, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Your list is pretty good. I would leave off the Funtana X50. Other than that any of these would be OK. If you like the looks of the Funtana, the 1.25 sized one is much more forgiving.

David

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(in reply to Phoenixangel)
       Post #: 25

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