RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT   
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> ARF or RTF >> RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT
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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/13/2003 7:04 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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Status: offline 		Steve,

If you can't tell from the article I am an Engineer.......LOL

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/13/2003 7:54 PM   
cstevec



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Status: offline 		dntmn, appreciate the advice. My engine came with a custom mount that I am hesitant to grind on as the engine may well wind up being to heavy for the airframe. I can however, use your formula to construct spacers formed of aircraft ply to hopefully achieve the same end result. I know how the washer deal works. A flying buddy of mine used the washers under a 100cc gasser and after a few flights the washers were imbedded in the firewall, i.e. no thrust. I usually try and make plywood spacers large enough to distribute the weight over the firewall. Minimizes the crushing and makes for a sturdier mount as well. I just wish I knew how this puppy was going to fly with a 4 lb motor on the front. I'm gonna hate cutting up the cowl and then not liking the way it flies. For the longest time I was debating the RCS 180 like TT62 used and then when I saw the Roto I had to have one. Didn't hurt that the web site indicated just a couple of oz.'s diff in the weight. When I got the engine dang thing is the heaviest gasser I've seen so now I am depressed. You never know till you try and I've already started so I will see it through to the end but something tells me that this engine/plane combo is going to be short lived together. Had I to do it over again I would have went with the 180 or possibly a Brison 2.4

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/13/2003 8:24 PM   
Brains



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Status: offline 		Hi dntmn your Kantana looks very nice im thinking about getting one after flying simon's at the weekend...If i get one il be having as much movement as i can get and with about -20 exspo i think it would go well...
Thinking bout a moki 180 up the front which will give it lots of vertical performance which i would want.
The 160 is just enough power to prophang so i think a moki 180 would be quite nice in it..
but first of all before i get the kantana i got one of these on order its called freestyle adrenaline www.ytinternational.co.uk ive put a order in and should be getting probs the first one..

anyway the kantana's are very nice...
Any good flying shots?

Dean


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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/13/2003 8:38 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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Status: offline 		Dean,
If you want an awsome 40 size 3D model check out this review I did on the Fun Air 3D 40

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=193

I also thought about a Moki 1.80, but after reading a lot of threads and asking a lot of people I desided on the OS 1.60 here are the reasons:

The Moki 1.80 weighs more
The Moki 1.80 uses a lot more fuel
The OS 1.60 with Pump and Pitts muffler has as much or more power than the Moki 1.80
The cost is comparable the OS 1.60 is $249USD w/o muffler

I cant speak for the MVVS 1.60 Simon uses I have no expierence with them, I usually don't hold too much faith in the published manufacturers specs

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/13/2003 9:05 PM   
TT2



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quote:

I just wish I knew how this puppy was going to fly with a 4 lb motor on the front.


Add to this the probability that you'll end up sticking another 8 oz or so in the tail. Just food for thought...

I have to agree with Dan on the OS 1.60fx vs. Moki 1.80. The moki 1.80s are VERY thirsty engines (you'd need at least a 20 oz. tank) and 8 ounces heavier than the OS 1.60fx. Power is about the same, so power-to-weight ratio favors the OS. I really like mine and IN MY OPINION is an ideal choice for the Katana (like I've said before and will continue to say!). This plane flies great when it's kept light. Though I've not seen a 'heavy' one fly, I know from past experiences with planes this size that even a few oz. is noticeable. Eight ounces plus would be VERY noticeable.

-Tom

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/14/2003 8:39 PM   
CCDave



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Status: offline 		Has anyone located Wing bags for this plane?

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/14/2003 8:45 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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http://www.wingbags.com

ask for Matt, I sent him traces of the wings and tail peaces and he made me prototype wingbags, rudder, elevator, and prop covers. I'll take some more pics and post later.

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< Message edited by dntmn -- 11/14/2003 8:51:06 PM >

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/14/2003 9:38 PM   
Brains



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Status: offline 		Hi guys understand what your saying but i would still like to try moki 180 for myself i think i could get it dancing round the sky with this motor...

Dean


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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/17/2003 4:28 AM   
cstevec



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Status: offline 		I was in the local hobby shop Friday picking up some last minute stuff for the Katana (and a replacement for a .40 size Extra I bought and crashed this spring). While in there I saw a Enya 155 4 stroke. Didn't enquire as to the price but seems like a nice engine and was wondering what do you guys think about that for an engine in the Katana ? I have just about given up on putting the gasser in the plane. My Sig extra is giving me tons of trouble here lately (carb issues) and I'm getting frustrated. I like no issue planes and that hasn't been the case with my Extra. At least with the big 4 stroke glow motors reliability hasn't been much of an issue. I have a few Saito's and an OS surpass but don't know much about the Enya 4 strokes. I am leaning towards a Saito 1.80 but man what a fuel hog and the worst of it is they like the good stuff, 20 & 30 % nitro. I can afford to feed it but as much as I fly in the summer time a big Saito is gonna put a dent in my hobby budget.

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/17/2003 1:56 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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Status: offline 		My Katana is finished with the exception of break in and flying, here are some final pics:

Also

Simon,
I read some information on mvvs engines and fuel requirements, it stated that if you use greater than 5% nitro you have to add extra shims on the head and to use 5% oil in the larger engines, Please explain I am interested in a MVVS .15 for a Kombat plane

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/17/2003 1:57 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/17/2003 1:58 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/17/2003 1:59 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/17/2003 2:00 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/17/2003 4:55 PM   
Yooper42


 

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Status: offline 		hey i was looking at the cheif aircraft Katana and was wondering what its covered with? what do you all think of it?

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/17/2003 6:01 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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Status: offline 		yooperkid,
Its the same Katana , its covered with some spin-off from oracover

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/17/2003 10:12 PM   
Deadtired


 

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Status: offline 		To add my two cents to this very good thread, I just started my Chief Katana ...having learned the hard way that it's just too easy to build these ARF's tail heavy...I decided right away to install a bell crank to simplify the elevator mixing problems, reduce the servo weight by one and avoid the total of three servos in the tail. I placed the rudder servo in the stock location and the elevator servo up near the wing tube attached with a fiberglass pushrod.
Unfortunately I neglected to follow the number one rule...check alignment of all the basic components FIRST.

Now here's my problem... the vertical stab is perpendicular to the horizontal stab. But the wing tube and deck, which are parallel to each other, are way out of parallel with the tail feathers.
Stab is glued and controls are installed.

I'm not sure whether there are any clever ideas out there as to how I can correct this so I look for suggestions.

I will try to load a picture....

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/17/2003 11:15 PM   
TT2



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quote:

having learned the hard way that it's just too easy to build these ARF's tail heavy...


Some do build tail heavy, some don't...this balances perfectly with an OS 1.60fx/pitts muffler and three servos in the tail yet leaves LOADS of lattitude for Rx battery placement based upon your level of comfort. Some of the Creek Hobbies planes of similar size / similar configuration would need 8 oz (or more) of lead in the nose.

Regarding the misalignment issue, that's a tough one. Initially I was thinking about adjusting the wing tube sleeve in the fuselage to compensate but that might be more trouble than it's worth. Removing the tail surfaces and starting over poses some complications but might be the best solution. Who knows? Either way certainly won't be easy...or fun.

-Tom

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/17/2003 11:17 PM   
Planeclothes


 

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Status: offline 		Tom, there seems to be a problem with my OS 1.60/Perry setup. As much as I have tried to adjust the carb (high and low) as well as the pump regulator, my engine doesn't run steady. At full speed I'm getting between 8450 and 8600 rpm's. When I go from full speed to to idle, it takes some time to completely idle down and then it goes from 2000 to 1850 back and forth. I noticed some bubbles in the fuel lines and suspected the fuel tank, but once I removed and inspected it, I found no pinholes or leaks. Everything else seems to be in order. According to the pump's instructions, with the needle valve open rich, the engine should run excessively rich. I have run the engine with the needle valve 3 turns open and it doesn't run "excessively" rich, as a matter of fact, the best setting I can get is at close to 2 turns open and going 1/4 turn in either direction doesn't really cause any difference in rpm's. I'm using the same fuel (Wildcat Xtra 10%) and the same prop (APC 16x10) I was using when I had the OS stock muffler installed, and back then, I never experienced any problems and my high speed was always steady at around 9000 rpm's.

How many turns is your needle valve open at your optimum setting? Have you noticed any bubbles going in or coming out of the pump? Please advise.

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 4:32 AM   
bn120



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Status: offline 		So tell me I see everyones plane with all servos in the tail, I am 1 inch behind recomended aft cg and I am at 11.5 lbs with the battery in stock fuel location and rudder on pull pull in fuse what engine are you guys using mine is a converted stihl almost 2 lbs without muffler.

Darin


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sooo....was that a soft crash or a hard landing?

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 2:45 PM   
CCDave



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quote:

ORIGINAL: bn120

So tell me I see everyones plane with all servos in the tail, I am 1 inch behind recomended aft cg and I am at 11.5 lbs with the battery in stock fuel location and rudder on pull pull in fuse what engine are you guys using mine is a converted stihl almost 2 lbs without muffler.

Darin



Darin,

I am currently setup with a 32oz engine a pull-pull rudder and a 2000mAh 6volt battery. I also have a on-board glow system... The 2000mAh battery is very heavy probably somewhere around 8oz. Everything is up front (the batteries are both on top of the fuel tank)and I still had to add 9oz of lead on the motor mount to get it to balance at the aft mark. My total weight is around 11 lbs. 14 oz.

So it seems we are having the same problem... I am considering going to pull-pull on the elevators so I can lose a lot of the extra weight...

I don't know how these guys are balancing these things with all the servos in the tail... I'm starting to wish I would have gone with a 3 lbs. gas engine

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 3:03 PM   
CCDave



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deadtired

To add my two cents to this very good thread, I just started my Chief Katana ...having learned the hard way that it's just too easy to build these ARF's tail heavy...I decided right away to install a bell crank to simplify the elevator mixing problems, reduce the servo weight by one and avoid the total of three servos in the tail. I placed the rudder servo in the stock location and the elevator servo up near the wing tube attached with a fiberglass pushrod.
Unfortunately I neglected to follow the number one rule...check alignment of all the basic components FIRST.

Now here's my problem... the vertical stab is perpendicular to the horizontal stab. But the wing tube and deck, which are parallel to each other, are way out of parallel with the tail feathers.
Stab is glued and controls are installed.

I'm not sure whether there are any clever ideas out there as to how I can correct this so I look for suggestions.

I will try to load a picture....


Deadtired,

When I was assembling my Katana I ran into a similiar problem... In my haste I had glued the stabs on without checking it with a square. Later when I was lining everything up I noticed that the left horizontal stab was drooping... It looked just like what you have... When I put the square to it, it was off but only by about 2 or 3 mm... But the at the tip it was 1.5 cm lower. Anyway check it closely this maybe your problem...

If it is.. I fixed it by very carefully cutting away the epoxy with a #11 hobby knife... I inserted the blade into the gap until I had broke most of the epoxy loose. After I got the stab to the point I could move it I wedged some popcicle sticks in there until I had corrected the droop. Then I cut off the popcicle sticks flush then I epoxied it all together. crude but effective...

Good Luck!!

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 3:59 PM   
TT2



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Status: offline 		Planeclothes, I'm wondering if your engine is maybe sucking air around the carb base o-ring, high or low needle o-ring, or somewhere else. That might explain the inconsistencies. I too noticed air bubbles in the line from the pump to the carb and thought that the pump was leaking. This is OK as the bubbles quickly (10 seconds or so) disappear after the engine is started and run up to max RPM...if they don't disappear you may have another problem. Make sure that there are no bubbles upstream of the pump! No matter how much fiddling I have done with the VP-30 pumps, I couldn't increase or decrease the flow rate by using the adjusting screw...so I leave about a 1/32" gap between the bottom of the screw head and the pump body and call it 'good'. Any further adusting is done with the carb needles. It takes some patience to get the engines adjusted with the pump but it's totally worth it.

I'd tell you my needle settings but that will have to wait...I'm out of town on business at the moment.


bn120 and CCDave, I'm suprised you are having CG issues with this plane. I have a few questions for you and I have no idea about your level of expertiese so please don't be offended:

1. We are talking about the red/white/blue GSP Katana and NOT the yellow GSP Katana right???
2. Have you made any modifications to the tail that might possibly add weight? (flying wires, etc.)
3. Check the CG diagram in the instructions again and mark the range on the bottom of the wings. Double check the measurements.
4. We are talking about the red/white/blue GSP Katana and NOT the yellow GSP Katana right???
5. When you checked the CG was EVERYTHING mounted (muffler, prop, spinner, battery, etc.)?
6. Have you flown the plane with the current CG location? What happened when you flew it inverted?

Though there are bound to be some variances from plane to plane and batch to batch, I have a hard time believing there would be so much that you can't get it to balance without adding a load of lead.

-Tom

< Message edited by TT2 -- 11/18/2003 11:05:10 AM >

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 6:42 PM   
CCDave



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TT2
bn120 and CCDave, I'm suprised you are having CG issues with this plane. I have a few questions for you and I have no idea about your level of expertiese so please don't be offended:

1. We are talking about the red/white/blue GSP Katana and NOT the yellow GSP Katana right???
2. Have you made any modifications to the tail that might possibly add weight? (flying wires, etc.)
3. Check the CG diagram in the instructions again and mark the range on the bottom of the wings. Double check the measurements.
4. We are talking about the red/white/blue GSP Katana and NOT the yellow GSP Katana right???
5. When you checked the CG was EVERYTHING mounted (muffler, prop, spinner, battery, etc.)?
6. Have you flown the plane with the current CG location? What happened when you flew it inverted?

Though there are bound to be some variances from plane to plane and batch to batch, I have a hard time believing there would be so much that you can't get it to balance without adding a load of lead.

-Tom



1. We are talking about the red/white/blue GSP Katana and NOT the yellow GSP Katana right???

Yes, It is the Red, White & Blue 72” Katana … Bought direct from GiantScalePlanes.com a few months ago

2. Have you made any modifications to the tail that might possibly add weight? (flying wires, etc.)

The only thing that would add weight is that I used an Ohio Tail wheel that is slightly heavier than the stock wheel. This should be more than offset by the rudder servo that I moved just behind the wing tube.

3. Check the CG diagram in the instructions again and mark the range on the bottom of the wings. Double check the measurements.

I have double checked all the measurements and they are correct.

5. When you checked the CG was EVERYTHING mounted (muffler, prop, spinner, battery, etc.)?

Yes

6. Have you flown the plane with the current CG location? What happened when you flew it inverted?

Yes, I flew it with the rudder servo in the tail and 9 oz of lead on the motor mount and it flew very tail heavy… The tail was dragging at all but the highest speeds. When you slowed for landing the nose would pitch up and it would not descend until it stalled and dropped to the runway. Once I moved the rudder servo and left the same amount of weight on the nose it flew very nice and landed predictably. With the weight inverted flight is almost hands off requires just a little down elevator to maintain level flight. I did not try inverted flight with in the tail heavy condition.

As a test I removed 2.5oz of lead before flying Saturday and again it flew as described earlier. On Sunday I added the weight back and it flew perfectly…

Hope that answers your questions.

< Message edited by CCDave -- 11/18/2003 6:43:39 PM >

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 7:10 PM   
bn120



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Status: offline 		the only thing I did was make the stab removable 2 screws and 1 inch of hardwood dowel about 1/2 oz. and a heavier tail wheel about another 1.5 oz so I figured that with the servo up front I should not have a problem.I also made the top hatch mod but that is pretty much over the cg.It just came to me that you were correct in your assumption ,I forgot to mount the muffler at 4 oz. at the nose I am still waiting for it to come so I will just add 4 oz. over the engine and see where I am at.I am using 5945 all around so that is probably another oz. or two for the heavier servos.I will check it again tonight.

thanks

Darin


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