RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT   
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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 7:54 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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I am using 5925's all the way around. Three servos in the tail. OS 1.60/bisson Pitts/Perry Pump in the nose. 3600mha Li PowerfLite battery in the nose. Carbon Fiber gear. The OS/Perry/Bisson weighs 38 oz, the battery pack weighs 7oz. I balence at 1/2 inch behind the factory recommended CG. no added lead!

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 7:56 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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Final weight 11lb 2oz

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 7:59 PM   
CCDave



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quote:

ORIGINAL: dntmn

I am using 5925's all the way around. Three servos in the tail. OS 1.60/bisson Pitts/Perry Pump in the nose. 3600mha Li PowerfLite battery in the nose. Carbon Fiber gear. The OS/Perry/Bisson weighs 38 oz, the battery pack weighs 7oz. I balence at 1/2 inch behind the factory recommended CG. no added lead!



dntmn,

Your engine combo is 6oz heavier than mine... What type of throttle servo are you using? I am using a HS-81 at .58oz... I am using 5625's on everything else.

What is you total weight?

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 8:20 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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CCDave,
What engine are you using? What is your engine/muffler/pump..etc combined weight?
I am using an HS-81 for throttle
The tank is over the CG
I added a little over an oz to the left wing-tip for lateral balence

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 8:27 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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CCDave,
If you still need weight in the nose you might consider painting the firewall and engine box with epoxy and an acid brush, this will add about an oz. At least this would be functional weight instead of lead(dead weight). To me adding lead to a plane is like driving your car with the parking brake on. I was dissapointed that I had to add weight to the left wing-tip. I was hoping the plane would be under 11lbs. Oh well nothing left to do but burn in the engine and fly..

Good luck

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 8:28 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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Simon,
Do you know anything about the MVVS .15? We had a fun-fly on Sunday(5mph winds, 80degF)...LOL..I had to rub it in, hopefully you will have fair skies soon

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/18/2003 9:19 PM   
CCDave



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quote:

ORIGINAL: dntmn

CCDave,
What engine are you using? What is your engine/muffler/pump..etc combined weight?
I am using an HS-81 for throttle
The tank is over the CG
I added a little over an oz to the left wing-tip for lateral balence


Dntmn,

I am using a Saito 180 with the stock muffler and a Perry Oscillating pump... I have the tank in the stock location with my receiver battery and on-board glow battery on top of it.

I agree with you about adding lead, but I really didn't have a lot of choice... That is why I am thinking of going to pull-pull for the elevators... That way I can reduce the total weight of the plane by removing the lead and going to a lighter 1650mAh receiver battery. I also want to go to CF landing gear.

How does yours fly with your current configuration?

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/19/2003 1:50 AM   
bn120



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dntnm are you flying at your cg now 1/2 behind aft cg?how does it fly that far back?

Darin


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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/19/2003 3:17 AM   
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well i have one as well(GSP Katana ).... not sure on motor weight... but...i have throttle servo in front...i epoxied the firewall(box). and i have a 2400 ma battery ////fuel tank is in the front...(stock locale)... and mine ended up nose heavy.....( i have all my items far forward as possible.battery ect) i have jrâ„¢ 4721 servo`s on all except throttle and rudder.. (those are hitecs. rudder one has metal gears . forgot what it was)

i repaired the landing gear area once with light ply.... maybe thats why...


i am about 130-135 mm from leading edge.... i need to move battery pack back some...now that i got it mounted up close to front(behind fuel tank)..just a bit........

my engine is much less powerfull then all of yours.. but it sure sounds cool.. and actually does ok.

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/19/2003 3:30 AM   
TT2



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elmerfud, I'll BET that engine sounds cool...looks cool too!

CCDave, the lighter engine combination you are using says it all. I thought you were using something that was comparable to, or heavier than, the OS 1.60 / pump / Pitts muffler combo (that's what I get for thinking!). Still it sounds as if the kit you received could have been a bit more tail heavy 'out-of-th-box' than mine or Dan's. Dimensionally, where did your CG end up when the plane flew well? What was the 'point of no return'? I haven't had a chance to find that point due to work, weather, and other circumstances.

-Tom

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/19/2003 7:36 AM   
bn120



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TT2 that seemed to do it I just found a deep socket that was 4.5 oz. and it came in right at aft cg so we will give her a go when (if) the sky ever clears.

they dont call our state collage The Ducks for nothing..... I wish they were called tumble weed or something



Darin


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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/19/2003 3:17 PM   
CCDave



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TT2

Dimensionally, where did your CG end up when the plane flew well? What was the 'point of no return'?

-Tom


I'm going from memory and I think the rearward CG in the instructions was 125mm... With the lead on the nose it balances at about 120mm and flies good... I took 2.5 oz off and didn't balance it and it flew very tail heavy. I'd say it was probably 145mm at that point... I think 125 or 130mm would be about perfect...

I will try to get more information when I get to fly it again.

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/19/2003 4:30 PM   
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Deadtired,

When I was assembling my Katana I ran into a similiar problem... In my haste I had glued the stabs on without checking it with a square. Later when I was lining everything up I noticed that the left horizontal stab was drooping... It looked just like what you have... When I put the square to it, it was off but only by about 2 or 3 mm... But the at the tip it was 1.5 cm lower. Anyway check it closely this maybe your problem...

If it is.. I fixed it by very carefully cutting away the epoxy with a #11 hobby knife... I inserted the blade into the gap until I had broke most of the epoxy loose. After I got the stab to the point I could move it I wedged some popcicle sticks in there until I had corrected the droop. Then I cut off the popcicle sticks flush then I epoxied it all together. crude but effective...

Good Luck!!
[/quote]

Thanks for the info CCDave...
I'm pretty happy with the alignment of the tail feathers. In my opinion the mfg just did a sloppy job of jigging the model to begin with...
at least on this one. Given the alignment of the feathers to the deck and fuse bottom being off as well it would seem that perhaps twisting the fuse and steaming it may work as well.
I am considering buying one of these new laser levels that are available in most homebuilder supply stores, setting up all the critical planes and axis' and steaming the inside of the fuse. I will probably block the whole airplane up and run a hose from my clothes dryer vent, load the dryer with a lot of real wet laundry and insert it into the fuse between feathers and deck. Hopefully when it softens and then dries it will stay put.
Another idea is to place an undersized wing tube through the fuse and jig it into alignment, filling the gap between the tube and fuse with epoxy to permanently align the tube. Then slide the original size tubes over the extended portions and glue them, telescopic so to speak. These will also provide some extension to the already short tubes and perhaps give a little more strength to the wings as well.

And it's off I go!

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/19/2003 4:44 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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CCDave,
I would have likely had this problem, but I checked it as I was assembling. Personally I dont care if the fuse is a little twisted, I want the fin/stab/wing/and engine thrust to be in alignment. When assembling mine I installed one wing half, and used an insidence meter to set it at zero, I then installed the second wing half and adjusted the anti rotation holes to make it also at zero. Next I installed the stabhalves and adjusted/marked the zero point with an insidence meter. Note the plane was on a flat surface. Next I measured the distance from each wingtip to ground and leveled the fuseladge until they matched. then made the stabilizer distances to ground match with them still alinged on the marks made previously. Then the stabalizers were glued on in this position and held with masking tape and T-pins until the epoxy cured, I must say the alignment is near perfect, or as perfect as my eye and measurement equipment can tell.

Dan

< Message edited by dntmn -- 11/19/2003 4:44:51 PM >


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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/19/2003 5:58 PM   
Simon Jones



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Dan.

I have heard the same thing about nitro content. Some people refere to it as achange in the compression ratio and others talk about the shim changing the timing. Basically from what I can tell to date most engines made for the US are set up to run on high nitro fuel, as it isn't that expensive out your way. Most European engines are apparently "timed" to run on 0-10% as this is most commonly used over here. The big MVVS runs well on stright to 5%, now the needle is right. Which is a good thing as the way it drinks the stuff it would be very expensive if it wanted 20% (as my almost as thursty new Saito 91 does).

I must say though that I have never heard about the oil thing, thjat doesn't make sence, unless they mean additional oil. The big engines are apparently ok with the 16-18% oil content fuel as I think they have roller bearings. Just Engines in Carlisle, UK sem to knkow their stuff on these engines so you can always drop them an email. justengines@enterprise.net.

So when is the big bird going up?

Looking good, like the covers.

Good luck.


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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/19/2003 6:25 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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thanks Simon,
I will try and break-in/tune the engine this weekend, and possibly fly next weekend. The wether is good for flying, but I do not get home until after dark.

I can't wait

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/19/2003 6:29 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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Simon,
Maynard Hill's flew an 11-lb. model airplane across the Atlantic (from Newfoundland to Ireland). Did you hear about this transatlantic RC flight?

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/19/2003 9:38 PM   
Simon Jones



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Yeah heard about that.

They boys must have dame good eye sight.

I have an article on it somewhere but I haven't read it yet. Clever stuff. Just hope it doesn't lead to more use of on board flying aids to take away the stick skills.

The sad news is that I'm changing job afte Christmas and that will mean no longer woking from home. So I ill be doing far less flying next year. I guess I'll have to get a good parkfly to take to work and fly in the car park. - Have you seen the video of the fanfold foam ultimate flying 3d in tiny spaces?

Good luck fo the weekend. I'm sure you'll love it.

sj.


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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/20/2003 2:00 AM   
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Anybody have a video of this bird in action yet?

I'm almost done with mine. A few minor details to finish up. Can't wait to get it in the air.

Paul

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/24/2003 1:59 PM   
Dangerous Dan



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All,
I started to break my engine in this weekend without a lot of luck. Here is the setup:

OS-160
Mezlick 18x6 CF
17oz tank over the CG
Perry V-30 pump
Muffler pressure tap plugged
3 lines to tank Fill,Vent,Pickup

It would be hard to run the engine without the pump everything is mounted, the tank is over the cg and the muffler tap is plugged

I started by turning in the pump set-screw so about 1/16" of screw was showing, I have the pump that has the hex head set screw. The High speed needle was 2 turns out. The engine started but ran excessively rich. The only way to keep it running was to squeeze the line between the high speed needle and carb. The engine would only run with the high speed needle out 1/4 turn. I backed out the setscrew on the pump quite a bit, but saw no results the engine was still extremly rich. It appears to me that I may have turned in the setscrew on the pump too much or had a faulty pump. It looks like the pump was stuck full open. Anyway I took the setscrew all of the way out of the pump to take a look inside, the spring was really deep inside the pump, so I think it was stuck full open. I am ordering a new pump today.

Has anyone else had this problem?

Am I doing something else wrong?

Where should the pump be set?

Thanks in advance,

Dan

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/24/2003 3:22 PM   
Simon Jones



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Hi Dan.

This sound exactly like the problem that I had.

One way to try to get over this is to put a return in.

What you do is:- Stick a T-piece in the fuel line between the pump and the needle. then conect up the fill from your tank to the spare end. What you should have is the clunk running to the pump. The out from the pump then goes to the T-piece. This the effectively provides a low pressure supply close to the needle with an "over-flow" running back to the tank. You can fill your tank through the vent or add another T-piece in the overflow line. If you want to be really posh you can use a fueling valve in the line from the clunk. These work byalowing fuel to flow straight through in normal opperation. When you plug in the special fill it cuts off the outging feed to the pump/carb and allows the incoming fuel only to run (backwards) down the feed line. This will still allow the vent to overflow this way. Some people would advocate re-connecting the pressure feed from the exhaust to the tank vent. Personally I can't see how this will make much difference.

I hope the above makes sence. It's much simpler that it sounds. This should effectively reduce the pressure to the needle. The needle should "see" a tank mounted right nect to it, you should try to get the T-piece as close to the needle as possible. From what you have said it sounds like you just had way too much pressure there. The danger is that if you reduce the pressure too much the pump will not provide the volume of flow your motor needs at prolonged wide throttle openings. If you try to picture what the above set up is trying to achieve you'll see that it should give a situation where there is a constant supply of fuel at a low pressure at the needle, the overflow effectively providing a dump valve/pressure release.

Whether you connect the tank to exhaust pressure I guess will effect how much of the pressure the overflow dumps. If connected the tank pressure should be that of a normal pressurised system. Only when the pressure from the pumped feed exceeds this "normal" pressure will it overflow. If you do not pressurise the tank the the overflow will overflow at atmospheric pressure. If it were me I'd connect the exhaust. This way your needle should see a fuel supply at about the same pressure as it normally would in a standard presurised installation. After all this is the way the carb and needle have been designed.

What ever you do thoroughly test it on the ground first. Try prolonged wide throttle openings to check that the system can cope with constant high demand situations, do plenty of nose high checks as well, even if it's tough hanging on with that much thrust. I didn't test thoroughly enough (on a different set up) and that resulted in leaning out in flight - nightmare.

I guess you can now see why I suggested sticking with the standard installation now.

Good luck with which ever way you go.

sj.


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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/24/2003 3:26 PM   
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One of the guys at the flying field was flying his yesterday and the left wing broke in half and came off during his landing approach. He had been doing some heavy aerobatics earlier in the flight and has the hot YS 140 on it for power. I didn't see it happen but he said the wing broke in two about an inch out from the end of the wing tube. Made a believer out of me. I have already removed the covering from the wings to do the wing mods. Just have so many other irons in the fire right now with Christmas coming and all there's been no time to finish it.

I don't know if you guys have looked or not but there is very little glue used on these planes. When I removed the wing covering I was hardf pressed to find any glue on the ribs. Another thing I noticed, I had three ribs that were cracked from the factory.

Any way you look at it you are gonna have a fair bit of scratch tied up in this plane to get it ready for flight so I would suggest going over it very well before spending much if any time flying it. To nice of plane to let cheap construction methods cause it to die a premature death.

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/25/2003 2:44 AM   
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Dan,
Looks like we are on opposite sides. I'm going nuts trying to get my OS 1.60/Perry V-30 run richer. Even with the hex set screw almost all the way in, I have to keep the needle valve at 2 1/2 turns to keep the engine from leaning out and still I'm not able to make the engine run steady at either end. I just emailed Conley/Perry today asking for advise. Good luck.
Joe.

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RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/25/2003 4:31 AM   
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Hidee ho there neighbors...
I have 30 flights on my KATANA , Got it from Chief, only cuz it is 3 days closer to me in california. I made the mods to the DEFECTIVE SPAR DESIGN. Basically framed around the tube with .125" spruce, and a piece of 1/32" aircraft ply pasted to the shear web (At a grain angle of plus'n'minus 45 degrees of course). When all done with servo, 15 oz/wing panel. Initially I thought it was gonna be tail heavy, I used pushrods and servos up front. Not easy thru little hole! OK... here are stats: OS 160, Bisson Pitts muffler, 20 oz tank, Futaba 9 ZAP with some fairly standard servos, one per ail, one per elev. I have tried the Mejzlik and APC 18 x 6 props, the APC was superior for me (3000 msl altitude). No mods other then the wing thing, and some pinning of the fire wall. I used the CA hinges through out and at flight 25, all but 1 rudder hinge failed!!! One hinge, and PULL-PULL cables were all that held it on!! ALSO... the cheesey tail wheel had to go... used a CG or Dubro tail wheel assy. The cheesey screws for the canopy and cowl never last for me, I simply taped the canopy, and installed blind/"T"-nuts for the cowling. A healthy soaking inside fuselage joints with CA was also done. Motor inverted with Perry pump. Pump is set to maximum pump, needle at about 1 turn (or in a little more) and I get... no kidding 26 minutes on that 20 oz tank!!! I do a lot of torque rolls and deep stalls at fractional power settings. Hovers at about 80% power @ 3000 Feet msl, at a take off weight of 12.6 pounds. (By the way, my YS 140 will not turn the APC 18 X 6 prop like the OS!!) I am still using the same plug as I broke it in with! 15% nitro fuel. Clearly as the fuel burns off and it gets lighter, it flies better! Will take about a pound out of GTOW and a half pound from MLW when I move battery back, (Take 4 oz from tail OUT) and put in a smaller tank, and prob'ly a lighter gear. The glass (Heavy, soon to be replaced) gear that comes with it is very STIFF!! Also, reinforce the cowl where the screws go thru it with a 1 inch square of CA Hinge material, this will prevent it from ovaling the hole!

OK... how does it fly???!!! Flies great, a couple of glitches though... There is just a touch of "ADVERSE ROLL" when rudder applied. A bit of pushing to the belly with rudder, both ways, easily mixed out thru normal flight regime. At HIGH RATE, HIGH BETA, (rudder deflected to point of hitting elevators) moderate power settings, I do not have enuff elevator to keep it from pitching nose down. Add power, and the nose will come back (Usually) OK.. the deep stall thing, it was a rocking SOB! Aft CG helped, a little. towards end of tank, not much better. OK... how did I fix this??? ZIG ZAG tape that they use on full size sailplane wings.!!! I placed this stuff at about 5% cord on top and bottom, from the tip inboard about 12 inches. HOLY SHEEP S%#T BATMAN.... a HUGE difference. I feel reasonably confident dragging it around at 45 degrees AOA at 30 feet above the ground! (Of course this little fix ruins this planes snap roll characteristics) No more doin 2 snaps on a vertical upline with this tape on it. This plane had a tendancy to snap out at just the right place in rolling circles too (I do it at 50% power... slow)... but the tape significantly reduced that.
One huge dissappointment though, I spoke with people at GSP and CA, both dealers basically denied any knowledge of the wings weakness. That was kinda CHICKEN S%#T. I of course got it anyway knowing the defect. Neither dealer would even imply that they were gonna fix this at the factory.

So basically I have rambled on here for a while, actually pleased with the plane, everything seems so light, 'cept the fuselage! This would be a real Humdinger at a GTOW of about 9 1/2 pounds!!! (10 1/2 would be great too!!) I would include a picture,... but we all know what it looks like!! LOL Well that is all I can think of saying, so have fun!!

PS. Simon, I got the "FUEL RETURN" idea from Perry, it was a miserable failure for me. I even tried a header tank, no good. But after flight 15 or so, it all gelled together and started to run GREAT, I don't know... Broke in finally?!?!? It has a totally even run through entire tank until last 3 teaspoons, then it gives me a little warning that it is time to land. I just used the pump in a normal manner. I have heard that there are some regulators out there that work better... no experiance there for me...

PPS... I also used very small Zip-Ties to secure all fuel lines to their respective nipples. I think I may also be a tad lean on the low end, takes a few seconds for the RPMs to finally drop to idle, but it is not running hot. I have the tank close to the CG, and 4 oz lead in tail, 600 mah nicad battery zip-tied to wing tube. Typically I will get 3 or 4, 13 to 16 minute flights with no indication of battery running low. Eventually I will move battery to rear and unload lead, (Just need free time right?!?) Actually it still flies nose heavy, I like'em to have a barely perceptable pull out in a dive test, this plane still pulls out a bit too much, and just a bit too much "TOP ELEVATOR" req'd whilst inverted.

mds


ZIG ZAG TAPE VENDOR- http://www.eglider.org/catalog/items/item296.htm

< Message edited by mithrandir -- 11/25/2003 5:06:54 AM >


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(in reply to Dangerous Dan)
       Post #: 424

RE: GSP Katana 72"...DETAILED BUILD and 3D FLIGHT REPORT - 11/25/2003 7:51 AM   
bn120



Posts: 715
Score: 100
Joined: 12/7/2002
Last Login: 12/18/2008
From: Gaston, OR,
Status: offline
mithrander can you give us a pic of the tape that helped the harrier.

Darin


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sooo....was that a soft crash or a hard landing?

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