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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 6/15/2012 12:37 AM   
nomadmariner


 

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From: MacleanNew South Wales, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Your right there and goes to show that just pouring some more epoxy is not enough! After much thought and a few beers i have decided to give the trainer a new lease in life with some changes. 1/ instead of a 60 that I have been running a 100 on it will be beefed up to 150 motor a RCG 26 that is lying around, will bring the fire wall back and run some extra stringers down the side until the bulkhead just behind the wing. 2/ Another layer of 3mm ply from the firewall to where I will be fixing landing gear that will convert from a trike to a tail dragger. This should be easy stuff as I will be cutting away a lot of the damage forward, the hard bit will be stripping back the wings to repair the internal damage, which is quite a lot, and if I am going that far I may as well install a couple more servo's and have flaps as well.
All in all a good project and should turn out a nice sport plane with a good size engine.
The NGH 17 will be going into another high wing sports plane to keep me busy at the field


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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 6/15/2012 4:11 AM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		Sounds like the firewall area is a bit weak in the wood itself. I would use some fiberglass tape and use it to epoxy the firewall in place. I remember some of the wood they use to make the planes with isn't all that good. The wood is sort of maybe acceptable, but you have to reinforce certain places like the firewall and landing gear supports.  I have had to do that on occasion with some ARF planes before.


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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 6/23/2012 5:03 AM   
n8622t


 

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Status: offline 		Glad to see Micheal has a winner over the JBA15...I just ordered two of the NGH 17 from AGAPE R/C and look forward to getting them broken in. They will be going on my TF B-25. Looking forward to 3 Blade prop reports from you guys so keep the great posts coming and thanks again Micheal

Jimmy


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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 6/23/2012 9:54 AM   
michaelchow


 

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Status: offline 		Thank you very much, Jimmy, and sorry for J15G meantime, J15G is a first Glow-style gas engine from the main glow-designer, there are two hidden troubles on J15G as original, one is the unsuitable carb size to get some problems on middle, WT664A venturi is a little bit bigger. ome is on Rod which need so carefull on the mixture rate and engine-overheat. there is no so small steady roller bearings on so small engine size because designer make an original with classical .90 glow size not amplify it reach .120 size for bigger roller bearings, but GT25B use roller.
Generally, the after-sell responsibility must be supplied by company not a person, but I am so sorry for users get no good support after I left. so I accept the criticizes and sorry again.
So GT17 changes with a suited WT1022 which is remade from Walbro for just NGH company with a small venturi for GT17 is a still classical size from .90, and make more precisions on all parts to make the engine with no overheat to break rod with a correct mixture rate for a compact engine get enough power, and now we can make an option on GT17B with a new more higher-strength rod.
nothing is perfect, we will meet new problems, but the most important is wherever you buy engines from, you will can accept good service from dealers and contact me directly. sorry agains and thank you agains.
and GF38cc 4-stroke gas engine will be tested in July, we will share it.

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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 6/23/2012 1:22 PM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		Michael, if you are interested. Fox Manufacturing way back in 1966 made .60 and .74 glow engines that used needle bearings on the rods. They continued to make the engines this way for around 10 years until the engines were superseded with newer designs. The method was to use a small caged needle bearing using a steel rod as the outer race and a hardened crankpin as the inner race. They went back to conventional bushed rods eventually due to manufacturing costs though. But from my last studies on the matter they still make caged needle bearings in these small sizes.

There is a business in the USA that converts SuperTigre .90 engines to ignition and they replace the crankshaft, rod, and piston so they can use needle bearings on the rod inside the engine. ref http://www.bmeengine.com/engines.htm

Here is pics of my Fox 60 Bluehead engine from when I last replaced the rings on it. It is still being used today. I have it on a Goldberg Tiger .60 plane.














I do have a NGH 17cc engine too, but except to take pictures of it, I haven't done anything with it yet.







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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 6/23/2012 2:29 PM   
michaelchow


 

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Status: offline 		Thank you so much, Sir, it is really useful and it is a steady structure, and with no need fasten rod and crankshaft together. BME is great based on Great SUPERTIGER.

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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 8/13/2012 5:12 AM   
rlemaster



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Status: offline 		I've been looking at this engine for a while and I am hearing good things about it. I like the way it is such a good fit for a .60 or .90 size engine from a fit/form point of view.

My question is, do you think this engine would perform on a 1/7 scale top flite p-51d? I'm guessing a final weight of somewhere in the 9 pound range.

Obviously a 20cc engine would give me more power for this plane, but I'm more interested in scale flight characteristics than anything else. I'm thinking I could pretty much get this entire engine inside the cowl (with a different exhaust).

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Russ

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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 8/13/2012 9:56 AM   
michaelchow


 

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Status: offline 		Sir, if the great classical Propeller fighter P-51's total weight is 9 pound, 17 can perform it.
BME90 and NGH17 both made from a typical .90 glow engine size, I am not sure if this P-51 plane installed with a .90 glow engine before, if yes, BME90 and 17 can be matched easily.
BME90 is unquestionable No.1 within this range.
but 17 will be less lower power and RPM than .90 glow engine because of the gas fuel feature, nitro engine is always bigger power with same size as gas fuel.
if you feel less hp with 17, can try NGH25 which made from a typical .120 glow engine size. both are with glow style muffler can be rotated with angles not welding muffler.

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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 8/13/2012 10:48 AM   
nomadmariner


 

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Status: offline 		Michael, any chance you will be making a conrod etc with bearings for this motor such as the BME? I realise the crankshaft and the gudgeon pin would need to be changed as well but having the needle bearings would be a huge bonus



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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 8/13/2012 5:09 PM   
Turk1



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Status: offline 		As Michael said,the reason only is the Chinese made "small " needle bearings are not worth to use on such engines because of quality.So he cant use them.(They cant import any part if there Chinese make ).

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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 8/13/2012 6:16 PM   
rlemaster



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Status: offline 		Thanks Michael, I do like what I've seen so far for this engine so I think I'm going to give it a try. I can always upgrade if needed but I'm sure I'll have to cut the cowl up more in that case.

Later,
Russ

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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 8/13/2012 7:23 PM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		I like the 17cc engine too. As it fits in a plane about the same as a glow engine does. Much more versatile like that to use. You don't have to cut away most of a cowl to make it fit in a airplane.
I have one of the NGH 17cc engines myself, but I haven't used it for anything yet.



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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 8/14/2012 3:22 AM   
michaelchow


 

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Status: offline 		Thank you for your advice, Sir, and Mr.earl had shown me Fox roller conrod,  of cause, the conrod design is important point as considerations.

NGH just focus on smaller size 2-stroke and 4-stroke gas engine, so we made many tests and researching on conrod, big size all with roller bearings on conrod, and NGH use roller from Japan, Along with the displacement of smaller and smaller, the tests show the smaller roller always broken easily compare the big size roller. always smaller roller will be broken easy than big size roller.

17 is with a classical .90 glow size, we can't find a suitable available smaller roller match it, if we enlarge crankcase size to fit a available roller, it will be same as a 25cc size.

SuperTiger is a great glow engine and remade in US for BME90 with small roller, I am not sure if any available US made smaller roller match BME90, or BME make a custom roller in US. but it is difficult for me to make a custom roller from roller manufactory, because Chinese custom roller is not ok, need from Japan, but it is difficult. I am wonderring if someone have experience run the smaller roller for long time?

Engine parts is always easy to damage, others make the conrod with crankshaft together with a body, if broken need replace both parts. BME and NGH is glow style, so the conrod is separated with crankshaft. users can replace it easily. because always crankshaft is stronger not easy to break.

so 17 modified with a high strength whole grass conrod, use 20:1 is ok, with no need worries. and IMPORTANT is NGH will supply 100% service if you meet any engine problems.
 


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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 11/24/2012 4:08 AM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		A few days ago I bench ran my NGH 17cc engine. This was in preparation for using it in a big World Super Stunts .60 plane I have had for a couple of years now.  It was great right out of the box, no problems and the carburetor was maybe the nicest operating Walbro design type of carb I have used so far, Anyway, the engine fired right up and I didn't have to tweak the needles much at all, the high speed was set a little rich, but no big deal, I liked that anyway. The engine is really pretty nice, it even started right up in one flip of the prop, when I was trying it that way too.

Measuring the engine temperature at the head where the spark plug sits wasn't very good. I'll have to darken that area up with something to try that again. But measuring off the right most fin on the exhaust side seemed to work well. So I did that. The surface temperature there wasn't all that bad being on the hot side of the engine. I was getting readings of around 319 degrees F there.

The engine is quite loud in my backyard, as there is a wall on two sides to reflect the noise back.  I'll see how it does at the flying field tomorrow. But the Troy Built Models DLE 20cc Silencer baffle adapter fits Ok. it is just a little bit loose and one would need to drill and tap a hole in the  baffle for a screw to secure it better. I have one that I may try later on the engine. The DB meter had it peaking out at around 104 DB, standing close to the engine, which is too close for measurements like the AMA says you should make, so it isn't going to be too quiet for some flying locations, so you may need to quiet the engine down some more in some cases.

I used a MA 14x8 prop and it is going to be close for ground clearance, so I'll see how it goes with the plane tomorrow. I do have a 13x8 three blade I could try if the prop clearance turns out to be a problem. The engine wasn't really broken in yet, but it was turning the 14x8 prop at about 9150 RPMS on the test stand. The engine could idle down to around 1800 rpms too, but that might be a little too low for flying though, I'll have to see how it does after it gets more running time on it.  I'll have to make new longer landing gear struts to use a larger 15x8 prop, if I go that route.



















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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 11/25/2012 2:24 AM   
dkm



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Status: offline 		Thinking of putting a pair of NGH 17's in a DC3. I am limited to max 14" prop,
so looking for rpm figures for 14x7x3 and 14x9x3.
Also how reliable has this engine been ?
What is the level of vibration ?
Is it going to be very loud as a twin ?

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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 11/25/2012 3:40 AM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		My engine's noise levels at the flying field is much better than when I was bench running it at home which was in between a tall fence and the back wall of my home. So it should be fine. but you could use a baffle insert or make one yourself to quiet down the engine even more. So I think it will work fine for you in a twin engine powered plane. J'Tec makes a in cowl muffler that fits even more closely to the engine to help fit the engine into a more tightly cowled engine compartment on a plane too.  I forgot to measure it, but I suspect the mufflers made for engines like the DLE 20 will fit the engine too. I also noticed that NGH offers a Pitts wrap around muffler as well.


here is my NGH 17cc engine on a huge World Super Stunts .60 plane. It flies the plane around really well too. Albeit it isn't going to do any prop hanging hovering though. But the engine has worked out really well. The carburetor on the engine is super nice and works great.














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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 11/25/2012 3:45 AM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		I forgot to add that Troy Built Models offers a Plug in baffle end cap that works good. it is slightly loose on the NGH 17cc engine though, so you'll need to drill and tap it for a small screw to ensure it doesn't pop out later.  My SV 17cc engine was really super loud as it has a large exhaust opening. I made a baffle tip for it and it helped quiet the engine down a lot too.


http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/items/TBMDLE20SILENCER.html




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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 11/25/2012 4:09 AM   
nomadmariner


 

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Status: offline 		Found the NGH 17 a lot quieter and with better running characteristics than the DLE 20, which I have. Both have the silence plug fitted. 
A good motor but remember if putting in a cowl to ensure good airflow to the cylinder as the carb will block the flow some. 


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RE: NGH 17cc gasoline engine - 11/25/2012 12:35 PM   
earlwb


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dkm

Thinking of putting a pair of NGH 17's in a DC3. I am limited to max 14" prop,
so looking for rpm figures for 14x7x3 and 14x9x3.
Also how reliable has this engine been ?
What is the level of vibration ?
Is it going to be very loud as a twin ?



I haven't tried a three blade prop on the engine yet. I have been considering a 14x7 three blade to see what happens though. The current 14x8 is maybe a bit small for the engine. But ground clearance for a 15x8 prop is getting really too close to the ground on my plane as the 14x8 prop doesn't have all that much clearance already.

My engine has been running flawlessly, no problems at all. The carburetor is the best working Walbro type of carb I have used on any of my gas engines so far.

The vibration levels are quite low, in my opinion, for this size of a engine.

Noise levels at the flying field are quite good, it makes less noise than a number of other gas engines people are flying. But one can add a baffle insert into the exhaust outlet on the muffler to quiet down the engine even more, if needed/






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