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marketing my design - 9/1/2003 10:49:18 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		The AMV?

Forget it. They'll never get a COA without major revision.

One of the requirements for getting an airplane certificated is being able to land with an engine out.

Look at the drawing. Stated wing span is 20', looks like perhaps 2/3 of that will be effective wing, leaving 12 feet. Estimating chord by scaling the drawing we end up with a gigantic wing of 18 square feet area. Now add in the 1800 pound gross weight, that gives us 100 pounds per square foot wing loading. Stall speed at least 125 mph, which means conventi9onal landing speed greater yet.

Add to this the lack of provision for lateral control while in thrust lift - maybe the cockpit is large enough for the unfortunate test pilot to lean it like a bicycle.

Now consider power loss while in vertical or transition modes. A helicopter can go into auto rotate. Wont happen with this thing - instant conversion to brick mode. And the Mazda rotary is not famous for extreme reliability.

No, I'm afraid the AMV is right out of P. T. Barnum. "There's a sucker born every minute."

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

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       Post #: 51

marketing my design - 9/1/2003 11:06:50 PM   
ThunderAI-RCU



Posts: 257
Joined: 4/14/2003
From: Watertown, SD, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by William Robison
The AMV?

Forget it. They'll never get a COA without major revision.

One of the requirements for getting an airplane certificated is being able to land with an engine out.

Look at the drawing. Stated wing span is 20', looks like perhaps 2/3 of that will be effective wing, leaving 12 feet. Estimating chord by scaling the drawing we end up with a gigantic wing of 18 square feet area. Now add in the 1800 pound gross weight, that gives us 100 pounds per square foot wing loading. Stall speed at least 125 mph, which means conventi9onal landing speed greater yet.

Add to this the lack of provision for lateral control while in thrust lift - maybe the cockpit is large enough for the unfortunate test pilot to lean it like a bicycle.

Now consider power loss while in vertical or transition modes. A helicopter can go into auto rotate. Wont happen with this thing - instant conversion to brick mode. And the Mazda rotary is not famous for extreme reliability.

No, I'm afraid the AMV is right out of P. T. Barnum. "There's a sucker born every minute."

Bill. [/QUOTE]

I am in no way defeining the aircraft. THe man doing the talking about it as Oshkosh didn't really seem to know what he was talking about. The premis is ineresting and perhaps with few modifications it might be able to be made practicle but I doubt it.

The problem with getting a hovercraft cerified is the no engine landing and this craft has little to no wings. My bet is that if you increased the cord length and wing span to 20' total on each side to something like 40 feet you might have something viable but thats weight and thats no good.

edit: The craft has lateral and longitdue luvers located under the fan to direct thurst, although unless there is enough lift generated by the wing at 23 degrees the craft will automaticaly fall out fo the sky.

(in reply to aeroanalysis)
       Post #: 52

design - 9/1/2003 11:11:13 PM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Well I was talking the model not the full scale hehe it would make for a cool model

Joe

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Http://www.proflooney.net

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       Post #: 53

marketing my design - 9/1/2003 11:17:19 PM   
ballgunner



Posts: 2109
Joined: 2/1/2003
From: Payson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Been there, done that. I was once younger and enthusiastic and I was sure it could be done. First try was kit it myself. Bad idea. Finally had enough local success to sell the whole manufacturing thing to an established company. They already had the facilities that would have cost me thousands I didn't have. Later saw the two airplanes advertised in the model magazines after the ideas had been resold to even another company.
"Experience keeps a bitter school but fools will learn in no other and seldom in that". Benjamin Franklin

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       Post #: 54

marketing my design - 9/1/2003 11:28:19 PM   
viperred



Posts: 82
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: somewhere, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Aircraft are like women, every guy has his own taste and liking. I don't think to much of either of those aircraft, the full scale or model.. but hey that's just me. That's why I say #1 Warbirds.. there one of the few things everyone agree's they like (or at least most). That's why feedback on projects is important.. to point building something for sale if most people don't like it.

PA

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Negative Ghost Rider.. The Pattern is full.

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       Post #: 55

marketing my design - 9/1/2003 11:35:24 PM   
Cactus.



Posts: 6138
Joined: 12/19/2001
From: CamborneCornwall, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]One of the requirements for getting an airplane certificated is being able to land with an engine out. [/QUOTE]
so what about the harrier and JSF in hover mode? their kinda screwed.

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(in reply to aeroanalysis)
       Post #: 56

marketing my design - 9/1/2003 11:37:47 PM   
viperred



Posts: 82
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: somewhere, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Heck what about a 747.. there not landing with all engines out.. or is it just one engine in a multi environment?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by phillybaby
so what about the harrier and JSF in hover mode? their kinda screwed. [/QUOTE]

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Negative Ghost Rider.. The Pattern is full.

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       Post #: 57

marketing my design - 9/2/2003 12:00:14 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Philly:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by phillybaby
so what about the harrier and JSF in hover mode? their kinda screwed. [/QUOTE]
They would indeed be screwed if they did not have zero altitude capable ejection seats. But the airplanes don't usually survive engine out in such conditions.

Even in forward flight the prefered method of Harrier power loss flight management is pull the handles.

With the 747 and other commercial planes, the requirement is maintaining flight with one engine out, and controlled flight to a landing with any one engine running by itself. Or words to that effect.

And that maintaining flight with one engine out is why there are no single engined airliners any more.

The FARs do allow single engined planes to be used as charter and air taxi, as well as general aviation planes. But as ThunderAI has also noted, they have to be controllable with the engine out to be certificated for production.

As shown, the AMV is a very bad joke.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to aeroanalysis)
       Post #: 58

marketing my design - 9/2/2003 1:15:39 AM   
ThunderAI-RCU



Posts: 257
Joined: 4/14/2003
From: Watertown, SD, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by William Robison
Philly:

They would indeed be screwed if they did not have zero altitude capable ejection seats. But the airplanes don't usually survive engine out in such conditions.

Even in forward flight the prefered method of Harrier power loss flight management is pull the handles.

With the 747 and other commercial planes, the requirement is maintaining flight with one engine out, and controlled flight to a landing with any one engine running by itself. Or words to that effect.

And that maintaining flight with one engine out is why there are no single engined airliners any more.

The FARs do allow single engined planes to be used as charter and air taxi, as well as general aviation planes. But as ThunderAI has also noted, they have to be controllable with the engine out to be certificated for production.

As shown, the AMV is a very bad joke.

Bill. [/QUOTE]

Sometimes your forced to wonder what a person was thinking when they design things, let alone spend money on acepet that is doomed to fail. But hey without peopel trying things where would be be today. That said we understand aerodynamics much more then we did back in teh goldenage.

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       Post #: 59

marketing my design - 9/2/2003 9:58:56 AM   
Rodrigo C


 

Posts: 116
Joined: 8/12/2003
From: São PauloSão Paulo, BRAZIL
Status: offline 		I'm thimking on marketing this ultra innovative design!!

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       Post #: 60

hehe - 9/2/2003 10:10:37 AM   
viperred



Posts: 82
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: somewhere, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Yah know thank god this thread never got off topic rofl...

VPR

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rodrigo C
I'm thimking on marketing this ultra innovative design!! [/QUOTE]

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Negative Ghost Rider.. The Pattern is full.

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       Post #: 61

marketing my design - 9/2/2003 7:52:27 PM   
w0mbat



Posts: 373
Joined: 12/6/2001
From: Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Be careful who you market your ideas to. There are a couple large companies out there that will talk with you and sound interested but steal your ideas and market them. I know this from experience.

As far as marketing your own designs go, in order to be sucessful and able to complete with the "big boys" you need to start with a lot of cash or a very big loan. Unless you are previously experienced, you will need to hire a customer service person, wesite design, advertising agency, and a marketing director. Most smaller RC companies that I have dealt with have no clue about service or marketing. They are designers at heart and that is all they know. You can sell a flying brick if it is marketed correctly - look at Top Flite! It's really tough to sell products without marketing or advertising.

You also have advertising costs every month, inventory, website updates, new product development, rent, etc. Not to mention the hundreds of calls from guys that just want to talk RC! One kit design will not provide you enough money to handle all these expenses. You could make enough from an ARF design to support this type of business (at least for a couple years) but you will need $150,000 or more in cash up front in order to fund each design.

I hope everything works out well for you with the "big boys"!

(in reply to aeroanalysis)
       Post #: 62

marketing my design - 9/2/2003 8:41:16 PM   
ThunderAI-RCU



Posts: 257
Joined: 4/14/2003
From: Watertown, SD, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rodrigo C
I'm thimking on marketing this ultra innovative design!! [/QUOTE]

That seems a little Troll'ish, dont you think?

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       Post #: 63

marketing my design - 9/2/2003 9:21:32 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Rodrigo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ThunderAI
That seems a little Troll'ish, dont you think? [/QUOTE]
Your post might possibly considered "Trollish," but I appreciated your pointing out the absurdity of using "All-New" in describing an airplane design.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

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       Post #: 64

marketing my design - 9/2/2003 10:14:52 PM   
Rodrigo C


 

Posts: 116
Joined: 8/12/2003
From: São PauloSão Paulo, BRAZIL
Status: offline 		Does trollish means foolish or harsh?
If so, sorry, don't want to make anyone feel bad, just wanted to add some fun

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