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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/2/2012 4:56 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		A pic of the latest work. The wing are going to be glass similar to all the WWII warbirds we have. Only these will be easier since no gear involved in frame work.

The wings shown are foam cores and balsa capped with balsa ribs at the tip. If these wings prove to be fast, and forgiving at landings on the composite fuse, then they will be the ones to become composite.

I do however have a bit of a set back. The intake does not taper down into the wings TE. It stays almost constant. The cross sections I used where incorrect at that location. The red line shows the correct shape of the intake taper. The area above the red line, rear of the intake needs to follow the roundness of the fuse.

Oh well. have to fix that. But I only have to do it once!

Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/2/2012 5:01 PM   
Slow Low



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Status: offline 		That thing looks SUPER SONIC!! just sitting there!


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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/2/2012 5:41 PM   
scale dail


 

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Status: offline 		I have an old Thorp F-104 all composite that originaly used a Dynajet by the brothers them selfs back in the early 70's. It is close to your size. 33" span. I work on it every once in a while. It will be a "C" model. It's the one on the left. I'm watching progress here. Looks good, great work!

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/2/2012 6:27 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		Oh, scale dail.

I met you at Prado awhile back. I don't know if I had my composite BF 109F, or my KA F-100, or...

Now I remember you.

Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/5/2012 5:36 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		Although my flaw in the intake was not easily detected, (unless one knows the 104 shape in detail) I decided to fix it. It bugged me. It's a plug.

Here is the start of the correction on the intake rear section. I have sanded down the duct section into a taper.

This is the "rough in" stage of this correction. A top wing fairing will be added to meet the fuse/wing section as in my scale drawings.

REF: In the pic above of the Thorp Brothers, (left, white) one can see the taper in question. The only thing not on the Thorp Brothers fuse is the lack of the small top wing fairing at the rear portion of the wing/fuse joint. but that is not nearly as big a fix as the one I have.

Pics of real F-104 of Chino, Ca. collection.

Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/6/2012 3:09 AM   
BD5wingnut



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Status: offline 		Looking good there, Steve.

I will be following your progress.

Peace, Wolf

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/6/2012 5:34 AM   
darren763



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Status: offline 		Looks great...Keep it up.

Darren

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/6/2012 2:58 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		Thanks Guys.

Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/8/2012 12:54 AM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		I mentioned to a modeler that we have been doing this for awhile.

Just a post to reference the work we have done. One of around 8 models to date configured. The model pictured design is from 1991. It is one of my current flyers.

We have also done the following in all composite:

54" span F4U Corsair
48" span Hawker Hurricane
50" span A6M5 Zero
48" span FW 190A8 and D9
61"span hawker typhoon
Me 163 comet
80" AT6 texan Fuse only.
48"span BF 109F/G
68"Span Spitfire

There are more, but can't remember them right now.

And assorted composite flying propellers and spinners.

Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/8/2012 12:58 AM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		Just a few other pics I found.

54" span corsair wing and fuse for 68" span Spitfire. Spitfire also has full composite wing.

Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/12/2012 8:37 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		Wing tank started to take damage. So I decided to mold it now.

Sunk 1/2 way into MDF shelf, bondo filled gaps, keyways, tinted black epoxy/cabosil.

Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/12/2012 8:40 PM   
Slow Low



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Status: offline 		...and awaaaaay we go!


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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/12/2012 11:52 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		Funny, this is the easy part. It's just hard when you actually do it.


Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/13/2012 5:18 AM   
BD5wingnut



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quote:

ORIGINAL: SCALECRAFT

Funny, this is the easy part. It's just hard when you actually do it.


Steve



Do what?


Hey Steve.

Do you leave the Bondo raw or how do you treat it before applying the release agent? What is your technique for cleaning up that Bondo filled gap? Do you squeegee it while still runny? Do you let it set/gel and slice through it?... I have used Bondo in the past and was just curious about other peoples techniques.

Peace, Wolf

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/13/2012 7:28 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Do what?

Do the work to fabricated and set up the plug, parting boards, wax, cut, mix resin.......................ect. But it's worth it at the end.

Once I have supported the plug from the bottom with foam or whatever can hold it in position, I apply bondo to the gap and when it become rubbery, I use a mini spatula from the criket machine company. It is a thin razor like spatula. It can be sharpened to a razor like edge. But don't, it will cut you.

Takes a bit of practice to use. Then if there are high spots, I use a single edge razor and scrape the bondo while using a very thin mylar against the plug to avoid hitting it with the razor. The spatula can also be used to protect the plug if a small area needs to be scraped with the single edge razor.

Note that before bondo is applied, everything is already coated with wax and mold release. If not, bondo will not lift off the part, it will glue to it.

Once all the bondo is trimmed, then a quick waxing and pva coat for the areas that were scraped or may have been compromised during the bondo phase.

Glassed, and in a make shift hot box. 65 degrees here today and all I have is slow cure

Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/13/2012 7:31 PM   
Slow Low



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Status: offline 		Oh, I like a good hotbox on a winter's day.


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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/14/2012 3:45 AM   
BD5wingnut



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Status: offline 		Oh man, I can recall the first time I used Bondo with out proper prep of the plug... years earlier, I had done some work on a couple of Rutan designs and he is famous for using Bondo to secure jigging and such, which you can pop loose with a little tap at the sides after it has done its job. figured the same for plugs, but noooo.

Peace, Wolf

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/14/2012 6:07 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		So here's what I have so far.

I gently pried the mold off the MDf with a sharpened paint scraper and it pop off. Note that some of the bondo came with the plug. This is not a big deal. It is only showing that the bondo did not bond to the MDF well. It cannot and has not bonded to the plug. I waxed the #$%^& out of it.

Next to wash the peeled PVA off, wax the entire thing ,PVA and get started on the other 1/2.

Also, try to avoid removing the plug from the mold at this point. It could compromise the seam joint on your parts later.

This is a very simple part of the basic concept.

Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/14/2012 6:25 PM   
Slow Low



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Status: offline 		Looking good Steve.  I could never get the parting board to free up with bondo approach (took some finesse I'm betting), and that's how I ended up using non-hardening modelling clay.  It doesn't do as good a job, but you made that look too easy!  lol


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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/15/2012 5:51 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		So here's what I have.

Many people always ask: Will the original pattern be damaged? Always have to answer the possibility of this 50-50 on complex shapes. But sometimes...................

If anyone remembers, this wing tank was made by PVC pipe for the center section and green florist foam for the ends that was glassed. I figured the very fragile florist foam would be destroyed in the first splitting of the mold halves. But with a bit of luck and wax 3x and some more wax (rexall paste wax) plus PVA, it survived.

We really have never had a problem with release.

This is the mold right after it split open. It has not been cleaned up or ground to clean the edges of the parting board.

Also, note that the parting board is thin, .099" or 2.68mm at it's thickest part. Yet the mold released from the plug very easily. The parts we lay up will come out even easier. For THIS mold, this is all that's needed to get the job done. One can get many parts out of this mold because of the top quality epoxy and glass used. Also, the guys I know that will lay up parts in this mold will wax and pva every time. Maximizing the life of the mold. We are all from the same school. Hard Knocks U

Another major advantage of the thin mold is flexibility when apart (rigid when joined). In this case, it allows you to "twist" the mold just enough to release the part. No where to grab this wing tank from.

Anyway, thought I would share a simple composite fabrication.

Steve





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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/18/2012 5:11 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		The first layup to see what will be the fastest, lightest, strongest method.

4oz plain weave "e"glass one layer per side, but cut into 2 pieces to overlap around 1/2" in center line along the span. This will created a support similar to the seam that will have cobosil support.

Plus, as the resin settles, it will migrate slightly to the low spot where the doubled up glass is.

I have decided no to use any filler at the tip and tail to see what happens. I hate to mix cabosil. I'm going to get the adhesive pre mix later.

I decided to sop up the residual resin since to much does nothing but add weight. Though one cannot see inside, it's a good practice. My friends that do this look inside more than outside.

The China brush looses a lot of hair. Almost as much as me.

Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/21/2012 2:43 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		A quick pic of the wing tank. The dark stuff is polyester resin. Used to speed up the joining of the halves. This one is for "set up".

2.5oz for this one.

Steve

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/21/2012 4:36 PM   
scale dail


 

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Status: offline 		Your making great progress! I'll have to get a set of tip tanks from you for mine.

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/23/2012 9:05 PM   
mr_matt



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Status: offline 		Hi Steve,

Great thread. How did you join the halves? I have a similar mold to make and it is clsed up with no way to get to the seam like this tip tank is.

thanks!

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RE: All composite 1/10 F-104 scale 90mm edf plug/mold f... - 2/23/2012 10:04 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		Mr. matt I'll figure you have done layups before (WKR).

On the first layup. On this mold, I placed seam tape on one side of the mold, then carefully placed the other half on and closed the mold.

Now, on this mold I have a hole at the tip and the tail, kinda centered, I anchor one end to a Hook that can spin, and on the other end I have a hook that is in a drill.

Then spin the mold up and the centrifugal forces make the other side of the tape bond to the other side. Works.

Cabosil on joint, apply thin layer of resin to side slightly that tape is not attached to.

May take a few tries, but the idea is what is the trick.

I am also making a goggle/joggle gasket for this as well. I'll see which method is faster, cheaper, and easier.

Please ask if you have questions. Or even better ideas.

Steve

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