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Gyros for 3D flying? - 7/7/2011 5:50 PM   
Kaos



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I have a Magnum XL.70FS powered U-Can-Do 3D (46 size). I'm happy with the way it flies, but I've been entertaining the idea of perhaps installing one or more gyros to help me learn some of the so-called 3D maneuvers. I'm thinking of a gyro on at least the rudder and perhaps the elevator. Would this help with hover, or work at all? What would be a good gyro choice?

Thanks,

-kaos

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 7/7/2011 8:51 PM   
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Status: offline 		Give them a go, i would buy 2nd hand, Align make pretty good gyros which you can purchase 2nd hand rather cheaply, I would put the gyro on a switch so you can turn it on or off and see if it helps.  A gyro may or may not help you but in all honesty you are most likely just going to get flamed for asking the question.

I have never tried a gyro myself.


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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 7/7/2011 10:05 PM   
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Status: offline 		I have tried a gyro and personally don't like it. IMHO it actually makes hovering harder as it introduces effects that are not expected and that makes corrections for movement difficult. The best advice I was given when learning to do 3D was get a good simulator (I use realflight) and practice, practice, practice. I watched a video by Mark Leesburg (I think) where he says he has over 2000 hrs of simulator time practicing rolling harriers. Folks that's a bunch of practice. After I could comfortably hover on the sim, I moved to a good foamy as suggested by the best 3D'er at my club and proceeded to practice on it. It was also suggested that I practice down low (tail no more than 2 to 6 feet off the deck) as it makes seeing the very small movements of the plane much faster and easier thereby making corrections quicker and easier. You can catch and correct an unwanted motion before it gets to be too much to deal with. It took a while but now I do it without even putting conscious thought into it. For lack of a better description, it has become "muscle memory".

Also, consider that the more tail heavy the plane, the easier it will be to hover. Too far aft though and it can become a handful to fly straight and level. Not a huge problem after to get the hang of harrier flight as you can just harrier land it. Burn lot's of fuel/gas and you'll get there. I honestly never thought I would be able to hover a plane 5 years ago and now it is almost too easy.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 7/13/2011 2:06 AM   
Beachcomber


 

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Status: offline 		I've been wondering the same thing about gyro for 3D planes. Haven't found a good answer yet, but can tell you that it seems to be a secret club. Nobody will admit to using gyro, because folks will make fun of them. But in secret, who knows how many gyros are hiding under the canopy.

Just saw an ad from hobby lobby taking advance orders on a new foam jet that comes standard with gyro for rudder, for use in 3D hovering. So there, the cat is out of the bag.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 7/13/2011 3:48 AM   
MetallicaJunkie



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Status: offline 		i personally would never use one...

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 7/13/2011 2:43 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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Status: offline 		I've tried it, I wasn't impressed, and as a chopper dude I have plenty of good gyros laying around and am well versed in setting them up.

One thing, and this is a common use, is with my way over powered Funtana I could just slam full throttle sitting still and it would track straight down the runway. Lots of guys use them for this.

For hovering and torque rolling, its more cost effective and a bigger benefit to just buy a foamie and learn how to hover.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 7/13/2011 10:14 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beachcomber

I've been wondering the same thing about gyro for 3D planes. Haven't found a good answer yet, but can tell you that it seems to be a secret club. Nobody will admit to using gyro, because folks will make fun of them. But in secret, who knows how many gyros are hiding under the canopy.

Just saw an ad from hobby lobby taking advance orders on a new foam jet that comes standard with gyro for rudder, for use in 3D hovering. So there, the cat is out of the bag.

Go to one of the big F.G. HuckFest's. The folks that attend are really good people and most will be happy to let you look inside their plane. I have flown at 3 different 3D events this year and not a single person was using a gyro for any reason at any of the events.

As recently as a couple of months ago, a gentleman challenged me to show him that my AeroWorks Extra 260 didn't have a gyro in it. He was truly convinced there was NO WAY a plane could be hovered and harrier flown without one. He had been flying for more than 30 years and was "sure" it couldn't be done. After poking around in my plane for quite a long time he finally admitted to the fact that there was NO GYRO in it. I've been flying RC for 40 years and I know how he felt, I felt the same way just 5 years ago. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I didn't think I would ever be able to hover.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 7/15/2011 4:20 PM   
Beachcomber


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

I've tried it, I wasn't impressed, and as a chopper dude I have plenty of good gyros laying around and am well versed in setting them up.

...

You make a great point Barracuda, about knowing how to properly set up a gyro. I've been reading a couple of older forum threads about using gyros in planes (mostly larger RC planes) and seems to me that many complaints might be caused by incorrect setup. Like one guy complained about drifting when in heading hold, and also indicated using rudder trim in his transmitter. I'm pretty sure most if not all gyros do not like any trim in the rudder channel, when in heading hold. This guy was trashing the whole concept of using gyro on a plane because of his problems. Live and learn.

The whole argument of gyro on a plane sounds similar to the argument of gyro on a heli a few years ago (ok maybe more than a few years). And now all modern day helis have gyro on the tail as standard. Look forward to seeing how this gyro-plane thing turns out.


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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 7/15/2011 5:05 PM   
wind junkie



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Status: offline 		I agree with Jezmo.

Get a good 3D foamie and practice down low to augment your sim time. Flying low lets you see the plane, and it also keeps crash damage to a minimum.

Make no mistake you're going to crash. Else you're not going to learn.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 8/3/2011 3:02 AM   
nappy99


 

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Status: offline 		I have played around with gyros for a few years, futaba 401's, here is my 50cc sbach with gyros. It has 3 gyros, yes 3, all surfaces. My normal flight mode I fly with very little gain, 20% non-head hold, it just makes the plane smoother and more stable (IMHO) it flies like a bigger plane.....then for some really low harriers and hovers, I flick the switch, go 80% Head-hold. Plane is rock solid, only 50cc, flies like 150cc. The 401's are great, they have remote gain, so I have 3 flight modes, and then another switch to turn them off. Honestly, in a 7 min flight, I might really use the gyros for 1 or 2 minutes. I approach the field, slow the plane down, line it up, then flick on gyros, and then focus on throttle management. Here are some videos of it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvfUQbq_Uyc&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhYs2wBk0yo&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSNUSYyacos&feature=related


I am sure someone could do this without gyros, but I just don't get enough "stick time" to practice...gyros good way to cheat.

My 85cc plane also has gyros, I don't like as much with gyros, bigger planes are more stable and don't really benefit as much. I also have 50cc Yak, its a blast with gyros.

What I can say, when I do all out crazy 3D, (bend the sticks), I flick off the gyros....as they can work against you.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 8/4/2011 3:38 AM   
nmking09



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Status: offline 		Just practice. You are not going to get where you want to go with a shortcut.

Put one in a UCD .46 with an os .71 surpass and found out that it actually was more stable in a hover when I simply moved the CG way back than it ever was with a heading hold gyro.

Plus, one day I accidentally reversed my elevator by messing with the programming. I got out of it safely but it was definitely a "... huh" moment.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 8/5/2011 12:29 AM   
Beachcomber


 

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Status: offline 		Ok, I have to admit I'm attracted to the challenge of making it work, just for something fun/different to do. Been flying helis for a few years, and got into 3D foamy planes about a year ago. So, sorta as a dare, I installed two gyros (tail and elevator) on my 38" Yak flat/profile foamy, to see what would happen. We call this plane the crash test dummy, cause it has broken completely in half 3 times and lost it's nose 4 times. Probably a quarter pound of glue on this thing, along with a few wooden and carbon splints. Figured I could fly in "Rate" mode with low gain, and switch to "HH" mode for hovering.

First test flight today, and I definitely need to make some adjustments. Flew ok in "Rate" but when trying to hover in "HH" wouldn't stay put like I hoped (could have been too windy). My initial impression is that the throw and gain are not going to be as easy to dial-in as a tail gyro in a heli. Still it's a challenge, and I want to play with it further. Oh, did I mention that I ended up stuck in the top of an oak tree today? Took about an hour, but with extension ladder, and three polls taped together managed to get it down. Crash Test Dummy lives to fly another day. Then we flew our normal planes and helis, with no tricks up our sleeves.


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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 8/5/2011 5:33 PM   
Beachcomber


 

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Status: offline 		Report on Test Session #2, gyros on elev and rudder.
After a little glue, the flight test dummy was ready for more "research". I adjusted the limits on the gyros, which increases the max throw of the control surfaces, and fiddled with the gyro gain a little.

In "Rate" mode using more gain than yesterday, actually flew pretty nice and I'm fairly sure it helped me hover more like a large plane. No bad habits, so that means gain is not too high.

In "Heading Hold" during slow flight and hover, here's what I learned. Theoretically, Heading Hold (HH) will keep the tail where-ever you put it, similar to helicopters. So before you can expect it to hover hands off, first you have to position the plane in exactly perfectly vertical. And when I made small corrections with control sticks when in HH, the control throws moved more than I needed; maybe too much gain. Gyro seems to do away with my expo when in HH. I managed to nail perfect vertical only once, and the plane just sat there like magic, all I had to do was control throttle and aileron. Sweet, but I didn't leave it like that too long, cause I think I was holding my breath and was about to black out. lol Then I switched back to Rate mode and guided her in for a safe landing.

Warning to beginners: do not try horizontal flight with the gyro in Heading Hold. You'll try to make a nice banked carving turn and gyro will fight you. Guess how I know that.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 4/17/2012 9:57 AM   
kunte


 

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Status: offline 		This is cheating man, it's like not fair, if you do this you will not only cheat yourself by not learning the basic skills, BUT you will give the rest of us a bad name!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTtxStJJyFI

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 4/17/2012 10:15 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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People said the same thing about dual rates and expo, then they popped an 8 track in on the way home from the field.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 4/17/2012 10:57 PM   
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Status: offline 		Do what pleases you, but where is the sense of accomplishment...?
I'd definitely try it with a "tail sitter" plane though.


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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 4/17/2012 11:36 PM   
kunte


 

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Status: offline 		Dual rates and expo aren't exactly defeating the learning curve or skill level. If you want to cheat, why not take cocaine as well to help you get bigger balls???

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 4/18/2012 1:28 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kunte

Dual rates and expo aren't exactly defeating the learning curve or skill level. If you want to cheat, why not take cocaine as well to help you get bigger balls???



Haven't watched your video that you posted everywhere, but you are very good at digging up old threads.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 4/18/2012 3:51 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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quote:

ORIGINAL: kunte

Dual rates and expo aren't exactly defeating the learning curve or skill level. If you want to cheat, why not take cocaine as well to help you get bigger balls???

......

Edit: deleted reply as a bad idea

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 4/21/2012 9:53 AM   
Bundubasher



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Status: offline 		Gyro for 3D...?? ... Naughty, naughty, very naughty......   The 3D crowd hard core will want to burn your plane and the Non 3D crowd will poke fun   .Better do it on the quiet...

Cheers

Bundu

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 4/21/2012 1:24 PM   
MetallicaJunkie



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quote:

ORIGINAL: kunte

Dual rates and expo aren't exactly defeating the learning curve or skill level. If you want to cheat, why not take cocaine as well to help you get bigger balls???



i didnt know cocaine had that effect.....beer usually does it for me

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 8/28/2012 10:15 PM   
m.gramling



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Status: offline 		gyro's are not needed. It take a plane set up to do it. Learn how to trim a plane properly. and burn gas. some planes are easier to hover than others. but once you get it. You will love it.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 8/30/2012 4:10 PM   
DenverJayhawk



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Status: offline 		most 3d pilots will laugh at you upon hearing of a gyro to help hover. I also don't think it's necessary. But who cares what other people think. This hobby is about fun and experimenting. If the idea intrigues you, then try it out.

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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 10/5/2012 3:52 PM   
Nitro Blast



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Status: offline 		Well, I gotta pop in here with my setup.

I have been flying a 2 Dog RC EPP Yak for a couple years now with no gyro. I can hover and 3D just fine.

My first tweak was adding thrust vectoring to the plane:
https://vimeo.com/21826833

And then, I got my hands on a Feytech FY 30-A stabilizer.

I love it .. Hands off Hover.

One handed knife edge flight

Rock solid performance in the wind.


I like to be able to turn it on, and off via the TX, some gyros dont do that. Good Unit.







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RE: Gyros for 3D flying? - 10/5/2012 6:37 PM   
zacharyR


 

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Status: offline 		one thing i don't understand is ... no one seem's to point out it's not that hard to hover a airplane .. just never understood the gryo thing .. as in nothing really hard enough to justfie use of it in my mind

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