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New Field on inactive runway - 7/9/2011 7:58 PM   
padlock


 

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From: Norman, IN, USA
Status: offline 		The Airport Authority just let us move to this location in June. Its next to the ultralight runways and about 3000ft From an active runway. Its a wonderful site perfectly flat, No trees or obstacles within several hundred yards and very private.

When the FAA completes their new rules. What do you think the chances are we will be allowed to keep this field

sbdwag

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/9/2011 8:37 PM   
KidEpoxy



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Status: offline 		Welcome to the wonderful world of government bureaucracy.
CalTrans was kicking RC clubs off airports while blaming the FAA for it,
yet change to a different state and we are back to Of Course you can fly here, it inactive.

Answering you question requires picking/guessing one of the possible outcomes we face:

a) FAA NPRM copies sUASARC, you need the air authority's PERMISSION
b) The NPRM comes up with something that is worse for us (thanx Caltrans)
c) The NPRM has something easier, or even nothing at all regarding airports & aeromodeling
d) The US Senate tells the FAA to sitdown and shut up over all (aka: some of) the toy planes

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/14/2011 4:38 AM   
lopflyers


 

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Status: offline 		Oh I am so jealous, it looks like a perfect site for an RC club. Best of all you had to do nothing for it to be runway ready.
I think the FAA regulations had nothing to do with your new field, enjoy it.  

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/14/2011 1:14 PM   
skylark-flier



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Status: offline 		Yeah, I'm jealous too. Total agreement with both lopflyer and KidEpoxy (and that's truly rare for me to be in TOTAL agreement with the Kid). Time will be the teller of the real tale but IMHO, you've already got the blessing of the Airport authority - and that's always ALWAYS step #1.

I really wouldn't worry about it unless your local AA changes their mind, and I kinda doubt that that's likely to happen any time soon.

Well done, you lucky devil!!!!

Dave


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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/14/2011 1:44 PM   
padlock


 

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From: Norman, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Yes we really are pinching ourselves here. We have a older member who use to be a pilot and knows several people on the board. We have spent some effort getting our name out in the community this year. Library show, Elementary school talk, Boy Scouts outing with live demonstration and we were ask to display a static show at the Airport Awareness day. All those things were very good press and positive contributions to the community.

Cant see the field very well below but here is a shot of our club meeting turnout Sunday. The main thing is don't do anything stupid and police the field for anyone that does. We always fly away from the Active never every over the flight line. We were allowed to drive in on the inactive runway that way we are not driving under our flight area. The ultralight runways are still active and we share them with only one or two ultralights (havent seen any yet in the last two weeks, One member has a gas powered para-foil he fly's occasionally) We have a few planes at less than 500 Ft flying over on approach or gawking at our field. We then fly very low and slow until they leave the area. Small price to pay for this great site.

The airport even mows the field we just clip it a little shorter on the runway with our riding mower.

Also here is a video of our field

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0E6UHOpwIQ

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/14/2011 5:06 PM   
RCB1


 

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Status: offline 		I am very excited about this field myself. No more power line incidents! It's getting harder and harder to find places to fly. I am hoping to get more ducted fans now that we have some access to pavement.

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/14/2011 7:12 PM   
bad savage


 

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Status: offline 		LOOKS GOOD Were do i sign up to join the club?

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/15/2011 10:47 PM   
RCB1


 

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Status: offline 		I should have the membership form up on the site soon, but you can also just contact our president here...

http://flyingeagles.freeforums.org/president-t7.html

The next club meeting is August 7th at the new field, or in inclimate conditions, Hardees in Seymour.

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/16/2011 1:28 AM   
Avaiojet


 

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quote:

When the FAA completes their new rules. What do you think the chances are we will be allowed to keep this field


Padlock,

To answer your question, "It doesn't matter."

I've actually seen this before believe it or not?

So, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

My suggestion would be to look for alternates. Find a good one and make your Club field there.

Any investment you make in that field won't work because "General Aviation" and RC don't mix.

In time, you will see exactly what I'm talking about. Take too long to explain it.

I'm not making this arguementive, but let's see if a, unheated, conversation, can follow after my comments?

I've participated in GA for over 40 years. I hold five ratings and two of them are Commercial. I've owned airplanes and was once employed as a Chief Pilot.

Yes I know, whoppy do!

But when those guys in GA, real pilots, and with better credentials than mine, start complaining about the "toy" airplanes, those dangerous toy airplanes, you'll see then who prevails.

FYI. I've been building toy airplanes for 58 years.

I look back at my years with GA and I miss nothing.

I could never give up my toy airplanes.


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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/17/2011 2:35 PM   
KidEpoxy



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quote:

But when those guys in GA, real pilots, and with better credentials than mine, start complaining about the "toy" airplanes, those dangerous toy airplanes, you'll see then who prevails.

They already had that chance,
to complain/propose/suggest to the FAA what they want done about lil unmanned aircraft.
It was called the sUAS ARC, and PLENTY of representation for GA was there.

I recall there was a part of the ARC that a committee member didnt like,
so they included ALTERNATE VIEW and AlternateRationale right in the text to allow that opinion to be heard.

Praytell,
where was this large anti-smallunmanned sentiment from GA then?
Why dont we see their AlternateView that GA and sUAV just "don't mix" written into the ARC.
Why did all the masses of GA choose to keep their mouth shut
when the FAA was asking them what they want to see done with the small unmanned aircraft?

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/17/2011 2:44 PM   
padlock


 

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From: Norman, IN, USA
Status: offline 		All it takes for us to loose this field is one stuped person not practicing cautious separation from a plane and were outta here. This has to be stressed and stressed to our members and guest flying here. It will be much easier for us to loose this field from the Airport Authority than the FAA.

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/18/2011 6:47 AM   
Avaiojet


 

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quote:

Praytell,
where was this large anti-smallunmanned sentiment from GA then?
Why dont we see their AlternateView that GA and sUAV just "don't mix" written into the ARC.
Why did all the masses of GA choose to keep their mouth shut
when the FAA was asking them what they want to see done with the small unmanned aircraft?


Mr. KidEpoxy,

For starters, if it wasn't for GA, that field wouldn't be there. That's fact number one.

GA guys or Pilots, are generally busy with their wives, children and families. That's fact number two.

You chose/elected to display your terrible attitude and disposition towards GA. That's fact number three.

If you, personally, fly at that field, your attitude, could cost you the field, when something does happen. And it will.

That's when #2 hits the fan.

You see, Pilots like myself, a lifetime of it, AND a lifetime of model building, still put safety first, because of, wives, children and families. Certainly not to leave out other people, including fellow modelers.

Best regards,

Charles


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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/18/2011 3:11 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

quote:

But when those guys in GA, real pilots, and with better credentials than mine, start complaining about the "toy" airplanes, those dangerous toy airplanes, you'll see then who prevails.

They already had that chance,
to complain/propose/suggest to the FAA what they want done about lil unmanned aircraft.
It was called the sUAS ARC, and PLENTY of representation for GA was there.

I recall there was a part of the ARC that a committee member didnt like,
so they included ALTERNATE VIEW and AlternateRationale right in the text to allow that opinion to be heard.

Praytell,
where was this large anti-smallunmanned sentiment from GA then?
Why dont we see their AlternateView that GA and sUAV just "don't mix" written into the ARC.
Why did all the masses of GA choose to keep their mouth shut
when the FAA was asking them what they want to see done with the small unmanned aircraft?



He wasn't disputing the fact that the current regs allow this.  He was simply saying that eventually some pilot will complain, and likely cause the RC field to close.  IMO very likely, but a good possibliity it will be a very long time away if traffic is low, and the RC club is very strict about seperation.

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/18/2011 4:17 PM   
KidEpoxy



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quote:

Mr. KidEpoxy,

For starters, if it wasn't for GA, that field wouldn't be there. That's fact number one.
GA guys or Pilots, are generally busy with their wives, children and families. That's fact number two.
You chose/elected to display your terrible attitude and disposition towards GA. That's fact number three.
If you, personally, fly at that field, your attitude, could cost you the field, when something does happen. And it will.
That's when #2 hits the fan.
You see, Pilots like myself, a lifetime of it, AND a lifetime of model building, still put safety first, because of, wives, children and families. Certainly not to leave out other people, including fellow modelers.


if you are going to state your opinions as fact
you should try to form more accurate opinions.
I didnt spend thousands of dollars so I could fly around alone in a c152 because I have a "terrible attitude and disposition towards GA",
I WAS ga
So you should rethink your Us vs Them approach to the subject,
you and me are the same us

but leaving your personal shot aside...

Yes or no: Did the sUAS ARC happen?
What was the purpose of the ARC,
and why would you feel GA didnt get their opinion in?


You have told us what you feel GA is thinking bout the lil planes,
why didnt the folks of GA that were members of the ARC say anything
when the faa asked for their recommendations.

so in regards to your second so-called fact,
No, the guys that actually spent the time to be in the ARC
were not too busy with wife & family to be there..... kinda by definition.

You make 3 statements you label as 'fact' that have nothing to do with the discussion,
you might was well say GA Pilots have at least 1 kidney: Fact #4.
Having a kidney has nothing to do with it,
having a family has nothing to do with it,
nobody said GA was worthless yet you need to say the airport is there thanx to GA
.... you are just spouting random thoughts and call them facts to look important to the discussion

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/18/2011 4:42 PM   
KidEpoxy



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Sure, we both know the FAA allows it now,
but the question was what is gonna happen when the NPRM comes out / gets workin
... actually, the verbatim question by the OP was
"When the FAA completes their new rules. What do you think the chances are we will be allowed to keep this field "

I was trying not to waste time with the
Someone somewhere might complain about something in the next 47000 years
kind of discussion... I was looking at the changes the NPRM could bring since that is what the OP brought up, and the way complaints/recommendations fit in is by the ARC, and then the comment period of the published NPRM. We both know that any discussion of whats in the NPRM naturally would include the ARC at some point.

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/18/2011 4:47 PM   
Avaiojet


 

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Status: offline 		Kid,

With all due respect.

You wrote what you wrote and I read it correctly.

Obviously I'm a modeler. A modeler first and there's nothing I can do about that.

But I'm GA also, AND there's nothing I can do about that either.

What happens at meetings and there outcomes mean nothing. Even agreements written on paper are useless.

Put that all aside, because they are, agreed, "Guidelines," at best.

It has always been the separation of attitudes with RC guys and GA guys that get Clubs into trouble when there's trouble.

Oh yea, bet your bottom dollar, something will happen, it always does, sooner or later. and the Club should be prepared for it.

The best ammunition the Club will have, is their pleasant and understanding attitude towards GA. It's that simple.

No attitudes!

Been there done that seen it plenty of times.

Sure, I wish yourself and all the Club members the best. But talk travels and attitudes can and will be discovered.

Keep this in mind, it's not the incident that looses fields, it's the attitude and personalities of the modelers.

Only trying to help.

FYI. I took my first flying lesson in a Luscombe 8F in 1966. GA is great, stay with it.

Charles,

CORSAIR Brotherhood, #72
C-101 Aviojet Brotherhood, #1
WACO Brotherhood, #116



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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/18/2011 7:14 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

... actually, the verbatim question by the OP was
"When the FAA completes their new rules. What do you think the chances are we will be allowed to keep this field "



Yes, but he said that this didn't matter, that they would eventually have an issue and likely be run off despite what the rules may say.  Again, he is very likely right.

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/19/2011 2:48 PM   
KidEpoxy



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Status: offline 		Sure, a field can get shutdown if there are complaints.
I find no exception to this hobby-wide fear for fields that are on airport land,
since it pretty much applies to all fields.

Dont tell me you havent heard that fear of losing field line used at non-airport clubs.

However, in light of the post#1,
I dont hear anyone saying whats happening with the sUAS regulation process
willl be having any effect on the hobby wide fear of complaints:
We all fly under that threat now, and we will then, regardless of being on airport property or not

There is a greater threat to non-airport clubs losing their field to sUAS regulation
should the FAA offhand decide to implement a 5mile permission REQUIREMENT
to replace the 3mile notification advice they now have in AC9157

How likely is that
... the 5mile part is not very likely
but they permission requirement is a valid fear:

So is Avaio telling all clubs within 3miles of an airport they are hosed
if the regs make airport permission a requirement and we know GA folks fly low and complain about non-airport RC
(the letters p r a d and o come to mind for some reason )

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/19/2011 3:43 PM   
Avaiojet


 

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quote:

So is Avaio telling all clubs within 3miles of an airport they are hosed
if the regs make airport permission a requirement and we know GA folks fly low and complain about non-airport RC


Ya know Kid, "grasshopper"

It's not sinking in. I said "attitude."

The more you write, the more you display your temperament and your feelings towards GA. You would absolutely be the last person I would place in a "hearing" room, where the outcome was to determine, if a field should be closed or not closed.

Don't you think GA guys realize the importance of modeling?

"Attitude?"

FYI. Back when the Hobby was all about building and skills, it was something to be proud of. Airplanes, conversations and the "modelers," were different. It was great; and we all dreamed of becoming Pilots, all of us!

The greatest percentage of modelers, participating today, have absolutely no concept of what the Hobby was like, and they don't care. And yes, many are resentful of GA. I have absolutely no idea why. Or do I?

Get with it. Appreciate GA, it's not going anyplace, and THEY will help you.

But not if you cop an "attitude."

You won't have a chance, the meeting will last only five minutes. Less if I'm in the room.

Charles



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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/19/2011 4:04 PM   
Silent-AV8R



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Status: offline 		There are a fair number of clubs who fly on, or near, active GA airports with no issues at all. Aside from the 2 clubs in the Central Valley of California that CalTrans got a bee in their bonnet over I have not heard of many, if any, issues.

What the FAA has to say moving forward is anyone's guess right now. We will have to wait for their Christmas Present in the form of the NPRM to see what they are thinking.

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/19/2011 10:34 PM   
804


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

There are a fair number of clubs who fly on, or near, active GA airports with no issues at all. Aside from the 2 clubs in the Central Valley of California that CalTrans got a bee in their bonnet over I have not heard of many, if any, issues.

What the FAA has to say moving forward is anyone's guess right now. We will have to wait for their Christmas Present in the form of the NPRM to see what they are thinking.


Yup, in fact there's one not that far up the road from the OP's new field.
It's about 20 miles north of Indy, called the Indy Westside RC club (a bit of a misnomer), and it's at
Indianapolis Executive Airport. The field is owned by Hamilton County, called Indy Exec., and is actually in Boone County. Try to figure that one. Used to be called Terry Field.

Lotta rock and country stars fly in there in small jets on their way to play at Verizon music center, and a lot of business folks use it to avoid
Indy Int. Airport, so it is pretty busy.

Anyways, the club has been there since at least '03 that I know of, and probably longer.

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/20/2011 3:45 AM   
KidEpoxy



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quote:

There are a fair number of clubs who fly on, or near, active GA airports with no issues at all. Aside from the 2 clubs in the Central Valley of California that CalTrans got a bee in their bonnet over I have not heard of many, if any, issues.


Could you give a brief rundown
on what makes the SoCal Prado and Milesquare sites noteworthy re: fullscale airports/planes

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/20/2011 4:07 AM   
Silent-AV8R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Silent
quote:

There are a fair number of clubs who fly on, or near, active GA airports with no issues at all. Aside from the 2 clubs in the Central Valley of California that CalTrans got a bee in their bonnet over I have not heard of many, if any, issues.


Could you give a brief rundown
on what makes the SoCal Prado and Milesquare sites noteworthy re: fullscale airports/planes



Sure, can you give me some idea what you are talking about? Mile Square had nothing to do with full scale planes. It was a County Park that got plowed under for a new County golf course.

Prado sits just inside the Class D airspace of Chino Airport (CNO). They have coexisted nicely for several years. There was one incident a few years ago that was resolved and the field continues to operate.

Can you give me a hint about what you are driving at??

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/20/2011 6:27 AM   
KidEpoxy



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I was hoping for you to provide an example of airport/fullscale folks complaining about models
and how even clubs not on the actual airport property face those complaints causing a ton of brick to fall on them.


Dont worry, I dont need you to post about it now.
Uh, because I found where you posted about it a while back


quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
An example of what I am talking about occurred at Prado Dam Recreation Area in/near Chino, CA. It has been mentioned earlier in this thread. A GA pilot on approach to Chino found himself amidst a swarm of small turbojet aircraft, something that greatly dismayed him, and eventually the area FAA honchos.



Well, to be perfectly accurate, it was a single jet and a full scale Mooney. No swarm. Just the one jet. But none the less, the Mooney pilot was not a happy camper and the FAA was less than amused. They communicated their unhappiness to the controlling entity, the County Parks Department who fell upon the club like a ton of bricks. The rest as they say, is history.


If that were a club that required the airports permission to fly there.... ouch right?


Avaio said clubs on airports have to worry about GA complaints,
seems even clubs off airports need to worry bout that (now).
Imagine what it would be like if clubs within 3mile of airports required permission (nprm possibility)

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RE: New Field on inactive runway - 7/20/2011 1:55 PM   
Silent-AV8R



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Status: offline 		Glad your research skills are still top notch!! I suspect you had that quote before you asked the question. That incident happened at a jet event where the CD failed to follow the established field operation procedures and where it is possible that the Mooney pilot was complicit in trying to generate an incident. So it really has not application to this discussion.

What is relevant is that this same club continues to operate in harmony with the full scale airport. They have recently held a couple of IMAC contests where they worked with the airport management to ensure that the event went off without a hitch. Which they did.

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