RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b]   
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    • All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Kit Building >> RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b]
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    RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 11/23/2003 9:53 PM   
    Josey Wales



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    From: **, NJ, USA
    Status: offline     		All I can say is AWESOME!!!

    Finally got to take her up today! This no doubt is the best flyin plane Ive had and that includes the 2 Goldberg Extra's Ive had..It took only 1 click of trim for the ailerons and 2 clicks for the elevators to get it perfectly level. It took off in about 25' at about 1/4 throttle and climbed out very scale-like. The first thing I tried after trimming was knife edge..WOW!! At 1/2 rudder deflection it held level all the way across the field!! And the best was that I really didnt have any coupling at all..no need for any mixes..Next pass I held full rudder still half throttle and it started a shallow climb so Im sure if I gave more throttle it would start climbing..Next was some flat spins..Very nice and flat..recovery was simple..let go of the sticks and after 1 turn pull up..Tailslides and stall turns were excellent and snap rolls at low rate are very scale-like. I got brave and flipped on "3-d" rates and did a nice lomcevak and almost got a waterfall!!! It really tumbles nice!! Hovering is no problem Im not that good at it yet but I can say with the 1.20 it pulled out of it with alot of authority and I was running it rich until it breaks in!! Cant wait to see the power after its broken in.

    I stalled it to see what it would do and to my surprise it did nothing!! Wingtips didnt drop and the nose really didnt drop either..just kinda mushed forward!! Im hoping once I get better with it I may get a harrier out of it.

    Landing was a pleasure..actually floated in like a trainer!! I was ready to have to keep some speed up but the first try it floated right by me!! went around again and did a nice wheel landing!!

    If you are thinking about this plane get it!! It flies awesome!! I like the extra power of the 1.20 Gives unlimited everything!!!
    final weight with fiberglass cowl is just under 8lbs!!

    < Message edited by Redrum -- 11/23/2003 4:57:37 PM >

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    RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 11/28/2003 7:02 AM   
    Sidekick


     

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    Status: offline     		Congrats Adrian,

    I have followed your build, right from the start. I have learned so much from you.

    My 300s is about half way through. I KB'ed the tail feathers the same as yours. ( Cool eh ) What I found Adrian, was by shifting the Elevator hingeline, was I had to put a packing between the stabilizer + the rudder because it left 1/2 " space behind it.

    It worked out good though.

    Next thing Adrian, is did you put 2 servos for the elevators? I could only see one in your photograph. I am not too keen on putting collars on the control rods to clamp them togeather ( as suggested on the plans.)I am putting all the fuse servos in the servo tray area.

    If you can advise me any different, I will chang it.

    Once again Adrian, congratulations, you have done a beautiful job.

    Regards,

    Sidekick.

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    RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 11/28/2003 7:25 AM   
    AdrianM


     

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    Status: offline     		I put 2 mini servos in the tail to help balance the plane and for a more direct connection. I didn't like the collars either. I had started with the 2 mini servos above the wing in the standard location but had to move them for better balance.

    If I were to do it again I would join the elevator halves with a 1/8" wire joiner and use only one standard servo. I think it would be just as light as 2 minis and all the necessary wires.

    Tomorrow I will be sttting up some mixes to get rid of the pitch coupling at extreme rudder throws.

    Thanks for the kind words about my plane. I'm glad the info was useful!


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    RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 11/28/2003 1:09 PM   
    Josey Wales



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    Status: offline     		Also wanna thank you Adrian for the pics etc..helped me out alot!!

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    RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 11/29/2003 12:54 AM   
    AdrianM


     

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    Status: offline     		We had 15 knot winds today but I flew anyways as they were straight down the runway. Made for some REAL short takeoffs and steep landing approaches.

    I tried the 14x8 and 15x6 APC props back to back and I like the 15x6 better. Top speed is nearly the same but the vertical pull is a lot better with the 15x6. I have about one gallon through my Saito 100 and the idle is reliably down to 2500. It should hold 2200 after another gallon.

    I like the Saito 100 but If it were to do it again I would get a YS110.

    I want to post the mixes I used mostly as a guide. If you CG and rear flying surface config is different than mine so will you mixes.

    Rudder > Elevator

    Left > 6% up
    Right > 3% up

    This is probably due to the right thrust.

    Rudder > Aileron

    Left > 13% right
    Right > 13% left

    It looks like a lot but its a tiny amount of deflection on the plane. I might try to move the CG back a bit but I'm not sure. It does perfect up and down line right not (no tendency to pull up on down lines) so the CG has to be close to perfect. Inverted takes just a touch of down.

    Between the wind and 2/3rds of a gallon doing mostly knife edge my club mates think I'm nuts. Oh well...It will knife edge horizon to horizon tracking perfectly with no altitude/heading/roll deviation. Precise 4 point and slow rolls are now very easy.

    It will 3/4 of a sloppy looking knife edge loop but looses a lot of altitude in the last 1/4....I chickened out every time!

    I had fun doing 1/2 snaps to inverted flight and back. Got oohs and aaaahs doing it just after liftoff. I fly my snaps (no switches). Snaps start and stop instantly so it easy to time.

    I cant wait for a calm day so I can start practicing the IMAC beginner sequence....


    Enjoy your planes guys it a sweet machine!


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    RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 12/6/2003 8:56 AM   
    !joeman


     

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    Status: offline     		i've greatly enjoyed this thread and am planning on purchasing a gp extra kit, but had concerns about its 3d performance. from what i understand, its limitations reside in its high wingloading relative to other 3d planes. I was wondering what other people thought about the gp 3d performance and possilble mods to reduce the weight, and thus the wingloading.

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    RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 12/6/2003 11:58 PM   
    AdrianM


     

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    Status: offline     		The weight is not bad at all 7.5-8lb for a .60 size plane is pretty good. The problem is wing area (too little) air airfoil (optimized for sharp stalls and snaps like a pattern plane).

    This will never be a 3D plane. It is however an excellent sport scale pattern plane. It is my favorite plane right now.


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    Reinforcements - 1/2/2004 2:44 PM   
    waagbuck



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    Status: offline     		I'm building this plane right now and have learned a lot from the posts. I'm right at the stage of mounting the wing, firewall, and landing gear rails and am concerned about the strength of the area. The instructions have you epoxy the firewall to the engine box, but the whole engine box is attached with CA and no reinforcements! Why even use epoxy at all? The structure seems weak too -- the formers where both the firewall and the wing attaches are just lite-ply attached with CA. The landing gear appears to be held up with only those two lite-ply formers. The trailing edge of the wing where the wing bolts go through is just a double layer of balsa with air in between. There's nothing in the instructions about reinforcing this area. I'm planning to fiberglass the wing joint, but am worried that it won't be enough.

    What did some of you other builders do for these reinforcements? If you have photos I'd love to see them.

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    RE: Reinforcements - 1/2/2004 10:08 PM   
    Josey Wales



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    Status: offline     		I put triangle on the inside of the firewall box mainly cause I put a Saito 1.20 but even if I used a smaller engine I would have still used the triangle. I also reinforced the landing gear area with tri-angle as well. I didnt do anything special to the trailing edge but if I was to do it again I would reinforce the area with some light ply. I havent had any problems yet (knock on wood)..The wing joint is really built strong and I didnt fiberglass it but Im sure it wouldnt hurt..Ive done violent blenders and the wing is fine..

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    RE: Reinforcements - 1/3/2004 5:41 AM   
    AdrianM


     

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    Status: offline     		The wing is WAY overbuilt in the center. I wish GP would re engineer the kit to make it lighter and more current. An airfoil like an eppler 169 instead of the NACA 6 series used would help. That and fudging the proportions to get a bit more wing area would make 3D possible.


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    RE: Reinforcements - 1/3/2004 7:14 PM   
    wrongwaywayne



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    From: Vancouver, BC, CANADA
    Status: offline     		I recently bought this kit and will start building shortly? I will do the tail mods and mount servos aft.

    What about the 1/16th sheeting on the wing? Do you think it is up for the job? Will it survive hangar rash? Did you tape the center section with fiberglass? I built the GP Giles 202 .46 last year and the wing failed on me in flight. I didn't tape the wing joint. It had the same 1/16th sheeting and I found it to be rather flimsy. I hate adding extra weight without a good reason. What do you think?

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    RE: Reinforcements - 1/3/2004 11:47 PM   
    AdrianM


     

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    Status: offline     		The 1/16th is fine...just be careful how you pick it up. Use common sense and it will be fine.

    The wing center section on this plane is massively overbuilt. Taping the center is not needed. You'll see what i mean when you get to joining the wing and get a good look at the size of the spars and the way the wing panels/joiners go togther...BEEFY!


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    Antenna - 1/19/2004 6:14 PM   
    rc-fly



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    From: Hinnerup, DENMARK
    Status: offline     		Congratulations on the Extra, AdrianM

    I would like to know how you routed the antenna or an alternative method.


    Great Planes Extra 300 .60 (building)
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    < Message edited by rc-fly -- 1/19/2004 6:20:15 PM >

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    RE: Antenna - 1/20/2004 5:14 AM   
    AdrianM


     

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    Status: offline     		There are 2 long balsa pieces that run down the bottom of the fuse. I glued a push rod outer housing to the inside one of them starting from the former at the front of the wing mounting block and ending just in front of the tail wheel where the 2 long balsa pieces meet. I left the tube at the rear long, filled i little area around it with lite Spackle type filler, waited for it to dry, ran a bit of thin CA around the tube to harden the filler then cut/sanded the tube flush with the long balsa pieces. After covering i cut out the longish pointy oval exit and fed the wire through. It look like the push rod exits and the antennae is easy to remove and install.

    < Message edited by AdrianM -- 1/20/2004 12:17:31 AM >


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    RE: Antenna - 1/20/2004 3:03 PM   
    rc-fly



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    Status: offline     		Thanks, AdrianM

    Great mods, by the way. I'm definitely gonna incorporate those into my Extra. Another issue, you mentioned that if you were to do again, you would use one servo instead of two on the elevators. Would you still place it in the rear fuselage and use a standard servo (Futaba 9001?). I have considered using a pull-pull on the rudder with a 80 Ncm servo. Perhaps that's overkill?

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    RE: Antenna - 1/21/2004 3:43 AM   
    AdrianM


     

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    Status: offline     		My modified rudder is big and needs a Strong servo. 80 in/oz plus is a good start. I use a 160 in/oz (6v, 100in/oz@4.8) servo because thats what I use in my R/C cars. Overkill...maybe. But, I have no knife edge issues!

    If I were to build again I would use a 1/8!QUOT! wire joiner for the elevator halves and use a good servo with 70 in/oz plus torque. A 9001 would be OK if you used a 6v (5 cell) flight pack. The modified elevators are big and need a strong servo to hold position.


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    RE: Antenna - 1/22/2004 6:29 AM   
    E*nealio



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    Status: offline     		I Finished my Extra 300s .60 back in Dec and got a Ys 1.10 Fz to put in it for xmas and wow its a great engine, Instant response. I went with a dual elevator servo setup and a 100oz servo(only High torque i had ) The first flight was great but at the base leg the CA hinges failed and lost an elvator and an aileron. Luckily it was balanced properly and brought it down gently. The next flight with new nylon hinges wasnt any better. The whole right elevator stab and control surface pulled off on base leg yet again. Bairly got it down witha damaged left elvator stab and suffered a bent aluminum landing gear and a lost stab. If found out that my hinges didnt fail this time but the wood was bad, not noticable from the surface... I'm inspecting my plane daily for signs of this. I have a forum in this section about the Gp hinges(Gp CA hinges are horrible) and aGp told me to mail em in to be looked at and they are going to give mewood to build another elevator setup. what a great company, they lived up to their name!A++++++++
    I think ill use the counterbalance idea to reduce vib. and servo load. Also anyone have any measurements(I only read the first page and then replyed...whoops, ganna go look through it) for the elevator counterbalances? Should i wire the or guy wire the elevator and rudder together for strength?? thanks for the input

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    RE: Antenna - 1/23/2004 12:56 AM   
    AdrianM


     

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    Status: offline     		How fast were you going and what prop? A YS 1.10 is about = to a Saito 1.50 in power.

    I use GP CA hinges in all my planes as I've had nothing but good luck with them. When my 4*40 crashed I pulled the hinges (GP CA) on it until the stab broke and the hinges still didn't fail.

    There has got to be more to this....

    Counter balances are a tool to reduce control loads on a flying surface not reduce flutter tendancy.


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    RE: Antenna - 1/23/2004 2:26 AM   
    E*nealio



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    Status: offline     		YS 1.10=1.5 saito............wow, I would think more the 120. It was originally a .91 and still is a .91 class engine. If counterbalances wont reduce flutter, what can i do to reduce flutter?

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    RE: Antenna - 1/24/2004 2:53 AM   
    AdrianM


     

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    Status: offline     		Tight linkages and tight servos...sealed hinge lines...controling speed will stop flutter.

    You should be running a 6 to 8 pitch prop with this engine. The prop recommendations by YS are for pattern planes not sport scale aerobats. Even an 8 pitch prop will over speed this plane if you are not carefull.


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    RE: RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 1/24/2004 2:05 PM   
    3D Joy



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    Status: offline     		I fly an 8 pitch prop on my 1/4 scale Cap 232 with a YS 140 DZ and throttle management is a MUST. Nothing over half throttle in level flight. Anyway, in my opinion, any aircraft other than racers should not be flown full throttle all the time, it just does not look good. Even a waek powered trainer does not look good at full throttle.

    As for the YS 110 being as powerful as the saito 150, I doubt it but it sure must be a very powerful engine for the aircraft.

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    RE: RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 2/2/2004 1:49 AM   
    E*nealio



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    Status: offline     		Thanks for the Info. I going to rebuild the elevator Stab like the First page of this forum show(Adrian M). Looks Great. I think i can figure out the build process with the pics. The Ys is a great engine and am very pleased with it, a lot of power for the plane.....as you said 3d, power management is a must, but I was at 1/2 throttle. I think ill put the hinge seal(will clear monocote work or do i need something else??) on all of my hinges from now on....... Thanks alot. Nealio

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    RE: RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 2/2/2004 12:07 PM   
    3D Joy



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    Status: offline     		Clear monokote is great

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    RE: RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 2/7/2004 6:30 AM   
    lord lucan



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    Status: offline     		Gents ...been going through all this good info..got my GP Extra 300 .60 on new years eve....! well on the way to completion now...done a simular u/c mout mod...glass taped firewall, fus,box joints etc.....i'm just a tad nervous about the threaded (wood !) wing mount plate and that threaded GP eng mount ..longer bolts in eng mount ,with nuts on rear ?, but the taper to front only allows this on two eng mount bolts .....thoughts on these topics ?
    regards
    Dave.

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    RE: RE: [b]Flight Report!!![/b] - 2/7/2004 2:19 PM   
    Build-n-flyer-RCU



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    Status: offline     		Dave,

    I've been flying my Extra now since late last summer and its had a bunch of flight time. Mine is built per plans (without all of the cool control surface mods that Adrian made) and I am running a Saito 100. I did beef up the landing gear mounting area a bit.

    I've had few maintenance problems with the plane. The threaded GP engine mount has been no problem. In fact I like the threaded GP mounts- the screws will not work themselves loose. Likewise I've had no problems with the threaded hardwood wing mount plate on the Extra, or on my Nobler, which is done the same way.

    My only suggestion is to be sure to put some hardwood backing blocks behind where you will be locating the cowl mounting screws. My experience is that the screws will not stay in the thin light ply without some help.

    Finish your Extra and go fly without any worry- at least not about the threaded mounts!

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