kiteboarder

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Hi guys, I'm new here. Had a quick conversation with "blackout" yesterday so I decided to start a nice new thread on it. Hopefully it'll evolve into something.

17 years ago (early 90's) or so my brother and I were into nitro RC boats. With help from our dad I put together a Dumas Scarab (45 I think) and my brother built a Prather Lap Cat III epoxy tunnel. The Dumas was built with an OS .82 engine which I blew every so quickly. I then got a .81 K&B. The Prather was running a .67 K&B outboard. The biggest fun of the projects was building the boats. For that very reason, both of those engines are still in break-in period after almost 20 years! The boats are beautiful though.

Anyway, after building those boats I learned a lot from the other racers at my local lake. At the time, the top engines were OPS, Picco, Rossi and K&B outboards. OPS being the top, of the top. For hulls, Aeromarine was always the top company. We had Sprint Cats winning all kinds of races. And we had winning Apaches painting to look like the top reall offshore boats in Puerto Rico. The scene was huge. During any given weekend there would be easily 50 racers at the lake.

One thing I remember well was the incredible fun .21 boats were. There were not the fastest but they were the easiest to deal with and to me the most fun. So, I always wanted to build a .21. Because OPS engines were so expensive to me back then, I settled first for an OS and later for the K&B. However, now, I would love to finally build that .21. Yes, I'm tempted to go gasoline and Zenoah on a new bigger boat for the simplicity of gasoline, but the fact that I grew up on nitros is really making me wanted to stick with it. So, this is what I'm considering. I'd love to read your thoughts...

1. For engine I'm on the fence on going with a OPS .21 inboard or old vintage .21 K&B outboard (if not one of the new OS outboards) - I like the simplicity of having the engine outside, but I also like the look and performance of the .21 inboard on certain boats... So in the end, it's going to depend on the hull below. However, those OPS and K&B engines are hard to find, but they do pop up here and there every once in a while so it's doable.

2. For the Hull these are the ones I have in mind:

- Aeromarine .21 Sprint Cat

- Aeromarine .21 Challenger (or one of the other similar sized aeromarine vee hulls)

- Aeromarine .21 Popeyes

If I go with the Sprint Cat the engine will definitely be inboard. But, for the Popeyes or Challenger it could go either way. I do like the look of those hulls with the outboard engines stuck at the back.I also like not having to deal with the starter belt and stuffing box/cable.But inboard would be a nice option.

I want a big tank in there as I want the runs to be no less than 15 minutes. I know these engines can happily do it if the temperature is regulated well and the mixture is proper for it.

Apart from comments on the engines and hulls mentioned above I have a couple of questions...

1. Apart from those old OPS, Picco and Rossi engines, which of today's engines can be considered as good or even better than these vintage engines? Blackout mentioned Novarossi.

2. How much power is lost to a muffler installed at the end of a tuned pipe? At one point I considered building a .45 in a lightweight boat and putting a muffler at the end of the pipe. That way I could compensate for the loss of power with a little more engine than a .21 and less weight by building it light (as I'm not planning on racing other.45's with it). I didn't want to go and make a .21 even slower, if the muffler really makes it much slower.)

3. How much more reliable and easier to deal with are the newer gasoline engines when compared to traditional nitro engines? One reason why our old boats didn't get much use was because of how labor intensive they were to run and upkeep. That's another reason why I like the simpler .21 engines over the larger .67 and up. The bigger the harder, you know? However, I know I can build a much better boat than those old ones we built back in the day. Even with the same parts. There are things I would do differently that would make the boat better and more reliable. Little things like balancing the boat better, using lighter materials, tuning it better, etc, etc.

Any and all help will be appreciate. At the least, I'd love to talk about the subject as I'm purposely trying to catch the RC boat bug again. Thanks, Danny</meta></meta></meta></meta>

Sport40II

Go with a novarossi and a CMB tuned pipe.  Will cost a little, but really make that boat go.

kiteboarder

What's the main difference between the standard .21 Novarossi engine and the purple head, long stroke one? More torque?

Hydro Junkie

That would be a question for Glenn Quarles. He is the US distributor for Nova Rossi and is a member of the forum

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

Danny, welcome to the site and back to RC boating.
The K&B's were the workhorse engines of the time, not the fastest but were really dependable. Lots of luck finding an OPS as Aeromarine quit selling them. If you want a .21 hull from Aeromarine, go with the Titan .21. The instructions are terrible to say the least and a lot of their hardware doesn't fit. I had one and ended up by replacing almost all of it with Speedmaster hardware. The only thing that I would get from them for hardware is their drop-down motor mount for that hull.
The Nova Rossi from Glenn Quarles is the way to go as it's fast and inexpensive. There are muffled pipes on the market so that you don't have to mount one on the stinger, Cooper Pipes formerly Irwin Pipes has a really nice one. The CMB TT pipe is very quiet, another good choice yet none of these rob you of any power. In fact, they can actually add some. The short-stroke engine is made more for outrigger hydro's.

OK, you asked about gas boats also. I run both nitro and gas but the nitro boats have been laying by the wayside a lot more since I tried gas. The initial outlay of cash is higher in some cases but the prices are coming down. Seeing how you like Aeromarine Cat's from your posting, the Conquest is one of the hotter Cat's out there. You can get a Zenoah or RCMK for a little more than a good .21 nitro burner.

For racing in the nitro class I'd forget about running a Cat as then you get put in with the outriggers. With the .21 'riggers running in the 70-80 MPH range you haven't got a chance.

rcguy1411

here is a pic of my Dumas Skater with an k&b 7.5 hanging off the bact i love the look of it i als have a K&B .67 ob for when i want to have alot of fun this thing is a blast to run and i think cats and outboards go hand in hand

kiteboarder

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kiteboarder

I searched around a bit and in fact they hold races once a month in San Diego. There are also events in a couple of places in LA. I guess racing is not totally out of the question

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

Speedmaster's site is www.rossisales.com which probably makes it harder to find using a search engine.
As far as a running site, I've heard of Spreckles Lake in Golden Gate State Park. Spreckles Lake got all anal a few years ago about noise and didn't want anything louder than what would have been lower than ambient noise, they might have been able to bust a sailboater had they had their way. I'm thinking that Legg Lake is the site around LA.
www.funrcboats.com is more of a local dealer for you for Aeromarine and Speedmaster which can save you the hassle of trying to order anything from Aeromarine RC.

Blackout

Buying on ebay used will only give you possible starting problems. Who knows what modifications the original owner did on the inside....

My Novarossi .21 5-port from Glenn Quarles starts like a dream. The engine is completely stock. Keep the nitro below 45% and the needle slightly rich and you will be good to go. I have had to make very little needle changes on most my boats, but all my engines are bone stock. I run with gas boat guys, and they are not 100% either. And the boats are way big compared to a .21.

Put a Novarossi .21 inboard in your favorite catamaran hull and you will be good to go. It will be fast and handle well. You can run against riggers too. It's heat racing, not SAW. You need to finish the race first. Plus, our local Elmira club has a .21 cat class. Check your clubs, they may too. It's just not an official IMPBA class, but that doesn't matter at the local level.

Also, Al Hobbs sells a AA .21 engine for around $400 or so. That is another option. I hear it's a great engine. The AA engines are built by Axe Rossi using Al's specs.

kiteboarder

Hi guys,

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

If the Rossi has a red/orange block, the thing is a really strong little engine. It takes about a gallon of fuel to get broken in but you can start to see an improvement every tankful. It'll also turn a bigger prop than most .21's can handle.
There are a lot of other great .21 hulls out there, my preference was the Speedmaster 21. It's not made by Speedmaster but the original hull builder needed a name and got the OK from the late owner of the hardware compnay. The left coast likes Cal-Craft's and the right coast run a lot of Seaducer's. I'm on the north coast so we'll run anything.

Hydro Junkie

Anything Ron? Does that include motorized logs as well?

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

You've seen our races huh?

kiteboarder

One of the guys I used to race with was the throttleman for one of the more famous fullsize offshore race boats in Puerto Rico in the nineties. It was actually a Carrera (45?, 50? - something like that). Anyway, he was one to experiment...

One day he showed up with a styrofoam cooler lid that he shaped into a sort of surfboard shape with a round nose, and then glassed it. He showed up at one of the races with that thing with an airplane nitro engine stuck to the back and a big airplane propeller with flaps to steer. Essentially, one of the gator boats that they run in the swamps in Florida (whatever they are called). The thing was SLOOOW, but it turned out to be a lot of fun to mess around with anyway. And it ran for a looooong time.

Blackout

AC Model Boats is another option for hulls. He is in Canada. His glass work is top notch.

Air boats are fun, cheap, and can be fast.

kiteboarder

I'm starting to lean more towards the new stuff. Been watching this auction that's about to close in 3 hours...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...T#ht_500wt_998 (new old K&B 3.5 outboard)

But, after reading, these old engines generate about 1.3hp, where the new OS outboards and Novarossi inboards do almost twice as that at the same .21 size! Hmmm. Twice the money though. But it should be obvious that if I go vintage, racing would be out of the question. -D

Blackout

You can't always trust HP figures.

The Novarossi .21 5-port from Glenn Quarles is $215.

kiteboarder

Hi blackout - I figured.. But it would be safe to say the newer engines should be "improved". This k&b is tempting... But I'm leaning heavily toward the sprint cat, therefore, inboard. Everywhere I've looked I see the Novarossi for $395 or so. I guess that must be list. I'm going to give him a call or get a hold of him here this week.However, I'll ride this auction 'till the end and see. If I can get it low, I might get it anyway and maybe use it. Otherwise, there are plenty people happy to take it off my hands.Have a good Sunday... -Danny

Blackout

Yup, the website has the list prices. Glenn's actual prices are lower.

kiteboarder

Ha! I won the auction for the K&B 3.5 outboard for only $169. That's really good given those usually close for over $200. Still, I'm likely going to order the novarossi anyway as I'm likely building an inboard. I'll figure out what to use the outboard for soon enough. D

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

My earlier posting didn't take as I've been having problems with either this site or my puter.
That's an older K&B which probably sold for less than what you paid, the black carb is the tell-tale sign.

kiteboarder

Oh I'm sure it sold for less before. But I've been seeing plenty of these sell for more than $200 every once in a while. I said $169, but I actually paid $149. 169 was my highest possible bid.

Blackout

If it's truly new, it's a good deal in my book. You are right, even though it sold for less years ago, it's going to cost more now since our dollar doesn't go very far anymore...

Put it in a tunnel. They are fun to run!

Dan S

Kite,
one of the reason we see some of them sell higher is that the first few versions came with a 12mm crank, 12mm rear bearing, and 12mm front housing.
They than updated from 12mm to 13mm.

Like Ron mentioned, this one has the black carb, they were also available with the red and a gold carb and the color was not only the difference.
it is still a good find for brand new.

Dan.