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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/26/2012 1:58 AM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		Nyemi, I tested all 6 of the hex files against a true CH Synchro Spark timer board today. What I found was that the hex named RCexl.hex was the best of all of them. It was really close to the file dated 3/10/12 you had sent me before all of the ones in the zipfile.
Since the RCExl file worked best for me, I have just reprogrammed all of the timers I use with that file. Very easy starting, great transition from idle to top rpm. The mid-range rpm was also better than what I was using.
The ones labeled MA, MB digital and analog worked but had a sort of mid-range hesitation.
The one named MCulloch also worked but dropped several hundred rpms from full throttle position.
So in my testing today with the RCexl hex file it got a low idle of 1600 very steady, and top rpm of 7400 with no misfires or bad habits!
That one is working best for me. Same performance as the highly praised Synchro Spark modules I was using.
I think you have come up with a great hex file and curve for my timer board!

Thank you for all your hard work!

If anyone else wants to test for themselves, the last link to the zipfile with all the latest hex file trials is working for download.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/27/2012 3:32 AM   
bluejets


 

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Status: offline 		John,
Interested to know what type/size of engine you are testing the ignition on.
Friend of mine back in Aus just finished a 100cc four cylinder 4 stroke engine and he tried to use a unit I had left with him.

He had some problems getting the ignition to work but diffficult to say just what the "main" problem was.(some people tend to panic when things do not work and as a result, all logic thinking goes out the window)

There was some comment that he thought it might have been breaking down under compression, ie no spark, so i was wondering whether you found it necessary to "bump-up" the output with a different oscillator like Nyemi had shown, or if you found it sufficient as it is.

I remember you previously commenting that your output unit was a design you used successfully for a long time so it was a bit confusing as to why Nyemi found a change necessary.

Cheers..... Jorgo

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/27/2012 12:18 PM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Jeff.
Both of the engines I am using to test the ignitions on are converted weedeater engines. These engines are basically lower compression type engines. One is a fairly new 20cc Echo style which turns a 17-10 prop @ 7400 rpm, which I consider to be an exceptional running engine. The other one is a 25cc from a Green Machine weedeater turning a 16-10 @ basically the same rpm but with original carb and no mods made to it with stock muffler. The 20cc has a larger carb than stock which reflects the exceptional performance.

The stock ignition circuit has worked well as is for many years on my plane. If you require more spark energy as his problems seem to indicate, you could always substitute the voltage doubler circuit change that I had showed you from the RCexl circuit Nyemi used in his design. That can remedy a low spark energy (joule value) in problem situations. Since I used no EMF shielding on mine to actually fly my plane, you can see RFI is at a minimum for my setup. I tried the doubler circuit and found I needed complete shielding on external wiring for my 72mhz radio to work without glitches.

In your friend's situation, he probably is surpassing the capability of the original circuitry to produce strong enough spark to withstand the high compression of his engine. I would try the doubler and go with that change. The timer will function normally up to the limit set by the software.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/27/2012 12:52 PM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		You could also try one unit per 2 cylinders with an additional coil for the extra unit. If he is using a distributor to provide the spark to all four cylinders, the number of sparks per revolution exceeds the limitation of the original unit. A little math will indicate sparks per revolution. If it passes 10,000 sparks per the rpm his engine is experiencing problems, that is why. Most small cdi circuits will have this limitation. CH or the RCexl units produce more spark energy than mine will as designed.
There is always a solution, finding it requires some head scratching at times.

Rob could tell you a solution I am sure. He explained it better than I could.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/28/2012 12:57 AM   
bluejets


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Joh

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/28/2012 1:05 AM   
bluejets


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks John,
The compression you were running at was my initial interest and as the engines we build are usually at the lower end of compression ratio, I can see no problem with the unit as it is. As I said, I am a long way away from there at present and it is difficult to say just what the actual problem might be. I ran the fp40 with no drama and as the 4 cylinder would be max at around 5,000 rpm there should be no worries with a single unit either.
I think maybe he has a set-up problem as I have just received an email asking where do I buy the hall effect switch.
mmmm......can only guess what has transpired.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/28/2012 5:24 AM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		Oh boy. . Here we go!

I can maybe guess he is attempting to use a set of points to fire the ignition. If this is the case, he may be experiencing a dwell problem. Once he takes the time to get things hooked up and timed correctly with the hall effect and a Radio Shack rare earth magnet, he may have success, who knows. Wish he could post a pic or two of how he has your spare unit connected. That would shed a little light on his difficulty in operating the ignition.

On a lighter note, I want to send you a few of the new boards I built. I know you aren't near the shop right now but let me know a little bit in advance so I know I can send them and they'll be waiting at your doorstep when you arrive home. I also will send you numerous timer boards ready to plug and play. I think you'll like the change.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/29/2012 6:57 AM   
nyemi


 

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Status: offline 		Hi John
Thank you for the tests.
It was expected that, RCexl curve will work well.
My plan. The program is running, and responding to. I will be accelerated. The current algorithm is time :48-60uS. I reduced the value to: 24-30uS.
My hands will soon present the solution.
I maximize opportunities for the program.



< Message edited by nyemi -- 3/29/2012 8:15 AM >

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/29/2012 9:59 PM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Nyemi...
The great thing about experiments with the software is that while working on one issue, another solution is realized. While I had always dreamed of having Rob's style of control software for the hex file, without that source code, any changes to be made were limited. At least with yours, we have the option to change the important issues like startup degrees in the timing and top rpm limitations. Also, the hall sensor firing position after the magnet passes was another one you fixed back to a more standard operation.
Now you seem to be attempting another issue we didn't even know about. Hey, keep up the good work!!
At present, with the RCexl curve you provided, my timers work absolutely perfect with any of my engines. This also was a dream that came true when you tackled the task. This was a great addition to the projects in this forum and I Salute you!!

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/29/2012 10:29 PM   
Gompy



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Status: offline 		I like the way you thank us for all the hard work we have done.
BTW, within a few months you can buy our soft-and hardware into the stores.
Have fun with th exelsheets and compilers, now you can do wat you want......

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/30/2012 4:16 AM   
bluejets


 

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Status: offline 		Rob,
The last I was aware, there was a problem with your system which is why there was a move to John's timer board and a different chip and software. If you are planning to sell your system, did you finally iron out the problems...??

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/30/2012 7:48 AM   
nyemi


 

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Status: offline 		Hi John
I'm sorry.
I badly written. I do not want, ignition monitor program to create the computer.
I, the "HEX" code I would like to be accelerated. I know.
The more responsive engine, the carburetor reaction.
The algorithm is time to reduce. 48-60uS>>>>24-30uS
This chip, created by increasing the internal clock (8MHz).
I think that's the point. Not the ignition advance curve.
I do not want the monitor program.
It increases: response, algorithm, time.
In my opinion.


< Message edited by nyemi -- 3/30/2012 8:12 AM >

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/30/2012 10:14 AM   
Fly42


 

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Status: offline 		You not good try software no problem in software
You do not understand cdi engine ignition for use

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/30/2012 11:24 AM   
bluejets


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fly42

You not good try software no problem in software
You do not understand cdi engine ignition for use


I can assure you I do understand the system. I have built and experimented with the system.
Others had similar or same results and problems.
Just as I have built and tested the new system from John with success.
If my memory serve me correctly, you were the one who whinged and moaned previously and had some of your derogatory comments removed by the administration because things would not go your way.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 3/31/2012 3:48 AM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		Nyemi...
Are you referring to using a double speed oscillator in the chip settings? that would speed things up alot..I think it should work. The chip is capable of it but could cause a problem in a power dip from the supply, ran into that before I think with the brownout detect enabled. I'm not sure of that though, only a guess. Let us know what you find by changing it to double speed.

John

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 4/18/2012 8:25 PM   
captinjohn


 

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Status: offline 		Got back from a vacation....keep up the good work guys....and keep us updated. Thanks Very Much,  Capt,n

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 8/2/2012 12:58 AM   
ngopaul


 

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Status: offline 		Hello everyone.
I'm newbie with our forum. Let me self introduction: I working for Food Supply company, my job is maintenance automate system. I learning DXP software to drawing schematic and layout PCB by my self, if everyone
have request just post me, I can layout both through hole or surface mount, reduced to minimal board size, get low cost for print circuit board. My interesting is flying, I spend all time I have for this.
Follow-up with forum, I just finish convert my weedeater Ryobi SS30 to make it fly, do ignition system by my self, programed with Nyemi's Rexel software, engine ran perfect, timing respond very good, the only thing
is in winter when engine cold, it very hard to start, I think if we have multi spark (at least two spark) from 0 RPM to 970 RPM this will be great. Please post whatever you thinking. Nyemi, can you help me about this, thanks in
advance.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 8/2/2012 2:31 AM   
bluejets


 

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Status: offline 		If you get in touch with John (GR8flyer55) he can point you in the right direction.
Nyemi has just done a revamp of the program to give multiple sparks which John says is working great.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 8/2/2012 3:50 AM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		Pm me with your email address and I can send you a newer hex file.
John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 8/2/2012 8:50 PM   
captinjohn


 

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Status: offline 		Wow...that multiple sparks Idea sure sounds good.  Will the MAH draw be much higher on the battery pac?  Thanks   Capt,n    Hesperia  Mi

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 8/2/2012 10:00 PM   
Ed Vollmer


 

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I have not been following this. Are you charging more than one Capacitor to get multiple sparks or using residual charge on the initial output Cap?

Guess I oughta read the whole thread.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 8/2/2012 10:22 PM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Ed.
It is using the residual charge in the .47uf capacitor. As it recharges from the hv output from the transformer, it draws around 25 mah more. Not too bad for the total draw of 250 at idle speeds. 350 to 375 mah at 7,000 rpm.
I am getting easier starts, even on a partially flooded engine from over choking. It was just a test to see if it would start, and it did very easily. It does kind of diminish the mid range burble too, a side benefit. It seems to be power efficient in the fact it's now using the left over charge in the cap. It involved adding a 3 spark loop in the ASM file and now with the faster speed of program execution, the loop takes very little processing time.
I haven't noticed any extra heating on the oscillator transistor either. Looks like a win- win situation.
My test setup has been running for a solid 3 days on a 5 volt power supply and still firing away at 3,000 rpms with an ignition tester hooked to the input signal replacing the hall sensor. Yesterday I had the new program in my test plane's ignition. Flew great with great transition and smooth idle. So far so good!

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 8/2/2012 10:34 PM  1 votes
CH Ignitions


 

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I have not seen the code, But this was my  Idea for the CH  RainFire TM ,I think I told you about it.
After intial fire based on the RPM and executed delay from the table,
 you can have the code to trigger the SCR one more time before the magnet gets around the sensor.
The CH can spark up to 25000RPM easy.
Now you can create the code that between 1500-4000 to give you 5 (20000/4000=)5 sparks and after that you decrase the # of sparks to 3 ,2 1 ; till
you get the top 10000 and keep 1...
Are couple ways to skin the cat....LOL
get a high performance pic 18fxxx and have all the calculations on the fly;
create an algorithm that even on 12F683 can work, get the code to execute X Sprks equaly spaced on uS right after master spark.

Thanks
Adrian
 



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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 8/3/2012 2:01 AM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		We are still using the 12f683 chip and it is making 3 sparks per trigger. Processing time was increased to around double speed and is working great so far. Flew my plane with it and got great results.
Forum member Jakestew is rewriting the code in C. It'll include some telemetry for rpm and temperature. Since there are unused inputs and output pins, we can take advantage of them for this purpose.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 8/3/2012 2:01 AM   
bluejets


 

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Status: offline 		Theory is fine but I think you would have problems getting enough energy into the capacitor in such a short time.

John,
You mention increased program speed but I'm pretty sure it's still the same, just added the 3 loops from what I can see.

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