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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/24/2012 9:39 PM   
Gompy



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From: Alkmaar, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		The winner lives a cross the street where I live in 1980, thats why I know something about tuning.
We both drive Kreidler, with the differens.....he was running a race bike (24hp) and I a street bike(9hp).
We live about 10 km away from eache other, but he don't do anything with small bikes anymore



BTW, you can set subtitle to English.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/24/2012 10:34 PM   
COM


 

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quote:


Anyone experimenting with 4 stroke curves at all




I do all my testing on a 4 cycle engine and the standard curves work great.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/24/2012 11:38 PM   
gr8flyer55


 

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From: Hamburg, PA, USA
Status: offline 		The only way I can run my OS 61 4 stroke is with either Nyemi's curve or a true Syncro Spark module. Tried basically the same curve in Jake's and at about 3,000 rpm it backfires and the prop flies off. Not good or fun either! I am getting good at ducking flying props however. Lol

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 12:12 AM   
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Status: offline 		Help! Is the "static void interrupt isr(void)" routine called or is it just like an event handler? I can't remember how interrupts are handled in 'C' but I'm sure it is just like an event handler or interrupt handler in asm.

Ray

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 5:52 AM   
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Status: offline 		"static void interrupt isr(void)" is the interrupt service routine. It is called whenever an enabled interrupt is generated.

Once it is called it will service one interrupt flag since I'm using an if/elseif structure. Everything happens in the ISR since the program is interrupt driven. The main loop just checks the kill and table switch pins, and services them if needed.


-Jake

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 6:08 AM   
Nav-Aids



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Status: offline 		Thanks Jake, so it works just like I thought, create a function with the interupts name and add the logic. I started geting into PIC programming a few years ago but, got side tracked by life. It's amazing how fast 'C' programming comes back, I just have to fill in a few holes.

Ray

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 9:40 AM   
nobitaemon


 

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Status: offline 		 Hi,
If anyone can help me.
I want to make use ATmega8 Programmable CDI
and the C language.
 
Thank you,


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 10:03 AM   
COM


 

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Status: offline 		John,

Where do you have your inital timing set at?

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 12:00 PM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		Charlie, I set all my engines @ 28 degrees BTDC. I think I know why I have the prop problem with the 4 stroke now. Nyemi's fires after magnet leaves sensor and Jake's is set for approach. That gives it a few degrees too much advance on my 4 stroke. I knew I'd figure it out eventually. Will try reducing it to about 25 and see what happens. Not as easy on the OS since I have a disc behind the prop drive washer and have to remove it to reset timing.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 4:31 PM   
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Status: offline 		Jake I finished reading up about the 'GIE' and the 'ISR' and have a clearer picture of things. Hopefully soon I will be able to help you with the coding, proofing, and debugging. I downloaded the 12F1840 code but haven't looked at it yet but, the 1840 sure has a lot more bells and whistles.

Ray

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 4:53 PM   
Gompy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nav-Aids

Jake I finished reading up about the 'GIE' and the 'ISR' and have a clearer picture of things. Hopefully soon I will be able to help you with the coding, proofing, and debugging. I downloaded the 12F1840 code but haven't looked at it yet but, the 1840 sure has a lot more bells and whistles.

Ray


We don't have forget why we use the CDI for.
A plane don't use two tables, a boat can also do without it, maybe a RC-car with two gears, but then you need a switch over.....when ?
I think it's better to optimize the CDI, faster PIC and communication over USB or TX/RX, but only the things we need.
Not using tables, but realtime calculation from the ignitiontime.
Realtime communication to show ignition angle, rotation and dyno information of the engine.

Everybody know how much time I (we) spent to get thoose things as above.
Now we have (allmost) a real good working CDI-program, a small battle between Nyemi and Jake's program, but don't make bells and whistles please.

First try real communication between a laptop/pc and the CDI, so we can see wat we are doing.
Drop the tables and make realtime timing possible.
Make it possible to change on the fly without flashing the PIC.

After 8 or 10 years on the forum and bussy with CDI I think I know wat usfull is and not.
Again, only positive critic and no attack to Jake or Nyemi.....I love both guys !!!
I can't program, but as a professional user I know wat (I) they want

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 4:55 PM   
Gompy



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Status: offline 		Wat went wrong....two postings ??

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 6:03 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gompy

We don't have forget why we use the CDI for.
A plane don't use two tables, a boat can also do without it, maybe a RC-car with two gears, but then you need a switch over.....when ?
I think it's better to optimize the CDI, faster PIC and communication over USB or TX/RX, but only the things we need.
Not using tables, but realtime calculation from the ignitiontime.
Realtime communication to show ignition angle, rotation and dyno information of the engine.

Everybody know how much time I (we) spent to get thoose things as above.
Now we have (allmost) a real good working CDI-program, a small battle between Nyemi and Jake's program, but don't make bells and whistles please.


I know what you mean Rob, I own a family run company and we make OEM type equipment for local companies but, yes we have to make sure that the core CDI unit works, is stable, and universal. As for bells and whistles, I was referring to the chip more than features that could be put into the program. Features are something for down the road later on.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gompy

First try real communication between a laptop/pc and the CDI, so we can see wat we are doing.


I really like that idea, instant feedback can be a invaluable.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gompy

Drop the tables and make realtime timing possible.
Make it possible to change on the fly without flashing the PIC.


Do you mean, automatic timing adjust using something like an EGT for feedback? It is possible, I hope to make a standalone unit this winter for a friend of mine. The unit I'm making is for in-flight mixture control but, it could be altered for ignition. But you would still need a base-line table loaded into the PIC.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gompy

After 8 or 10 years on the forum and bussy with CDI I think I know wat usfull is and not.
Again, only positive critic and no attack to Jake or Nyemi.....I love both guys !!!
I can't program, but as a professional user I know wat (I) they want


I haven't seen Nyemi's program/code yet so I have no comment on it and I would never attack Jake or Nyemi unless they attack first. As for both of their programs, I have no intention of taking over their work and before I offer any permanent changes I will discuss it with them first for it is their work. I will offer my opinions because this is what this forum is for, and hopefully I can offer something useful. One of the biggest problems I have is end users that don't know what they want.  I have 3 certified skills (Mechanic, Navigational Aids Tech, and Computer Programmer/Analyst) so I must be able to offer something.  I don't know what this smilely means but it looks happy.

Ray

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 7:15 PM   
Gompy



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From: Alkmaar, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		The programs and hardware we made can communicate realtime with the PIC.
http://www.electronics.gompy.net/cdi/index.html
You can change on the fly the ignition values and monitor the engine.
But there was a problems with the program into the PIC.
Sometimes there was a kickback or the timing was wrong.
But thats wat we have see into the programs from Jake and Nyemi too.

The programmer don't have a engine to test.
He was / is not a RC-man and have do everything with simulators.
But if I say befor and others have say it too into this topic, you can't do all into simulators.

The programmer and I life to far away from each other to help him with real hardware.
So the project stopped, but the PIC- and PCprogram was exactly wat I discribe.
Thats also why I hope Jake or Nyemi can / will finish the programs we start.
I don't have any source code, the programmer make the project free so it was his ownership.

If we want to play, we must help each other, not hide it and raid your hobbypartner.
Now we can all take a look into the source code and find the fault / error, or can tninking about the solution.
I'm a fighter for opensource, thats also why you can find anything on my website, I don't have secrects.
Our hobby cost a lot of money and anything with hobby on it cost double or tripple the money.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 7:16 PM   
nyemi


 

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From: szarvas, HUNGARY
Status: offline 		Hi Gompy
I thank you for your trust.
I give you something.
Solution to the problem.
I modified , Jake code.




Attachments
Click to see the file in new window.Attachment.txt Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 7:38 PM   
Gompy



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Status: offline 		I think my engine is allready running with your PIC-software.
It's raining I don't want to test and modify the PIC for this moment.
I don't have even the Exelsheet to rewrite the curve.
I think I can speak for all, we hope you and Jake can make the ultimate CDI program.

The hardware is a other isue, I'm intrested in a littlebit bigger CDI then the one who use it for RC.
If some toy stops, there is no problem, but if my bike stops I have a long way to go......by feet !

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 8:01 PM   
nyemi


 

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From: szarvas, HUNGARY
Status: offline 		I put three commands in the code.
INTCONbits.INTF = 0;  //
INTCONbits.INTE = 0;  //
INTCONbits.INTF = 1;  //
I found it hard to figure out which location.
Therefore, this Beta version.
I'm still working on it.
We need to examine all the possibilities.



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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/25/2012 10:25 PM   
COM


 

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Status: offline 		Nyemi,

I like your example of the tree and the elf sitting on the branch cutting it. that gave me a good laugh.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/26/2012 11:34 AM   
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Status: offline 		So from the pic that you posted Nyemi, is Jake's code the Saw?

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/26/2012 12:13 PM   
bluejets


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gompy

I think my engine is allready running with your PIC-software.
It's raining I don't want to test and modify the PIC for this moment.
I don't have even the Exelsheet to rewrite the curve.
I think I can speak for all, we hope you and Jake can make the ultimate CDI program.

The hardware is a other isue, I'm intrested in a littlebit bigger CDI then the one who use it for RC.
If some toy stops, there is no problem, but if my bike stops I have a long way to go......by feet !


Rob,
Good reading here ...old one but still ok...... http://www.not2fast.com/ignition/cap-dis-ignit-cdi.pdf

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/26/2012 12:27 PM   
Gompy



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Status: offline 		I know the designe and find here allmost the same schematic only modern and with a micro.
http://www.mini-cooper-clubman.de/html/umcdi.html
I want to use (....) this kind of HV schematic, you find the same designe in professional designes.
The only reason I 'm not sure to use it, is the high current this designes use.
Thats also a reason I want to replace the CDI I allready use on my bike.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/26/2012 5:34 PM  1 votes
nyemi


 

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From: szarvas, HUNGARY
Status: offline 		Hi everyone.
I think that this code is more correct.
It is only the base curve.
Rising edge, Hall sensor input.
No kill switch.



Attachments
Click to see the file in new window.Attachment.txt


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/26/2012 6:27 PM   
Gompy



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From: Alkmaar, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Hi Nyemi, do have also for me the exelsheet to generate the curve ?
The sensor is 40 degrees BTDC located ?
Into this code there are stil two tables, is this correct ?

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/26/2012 6:48 PM   
nyemi


 

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From: szarvas, HUNGARY
Status: offline 		Yes, Jake is an excel sheet, it generates all the data.
ASAP. Ask Jake, paste code excel sheet.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 10/26/2012 11:58 PM  1 votes
jakestew


 

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Status: offline 		Nyemi, that is good thinking!

What's he's doing is disabling the sensor interrupt after it is activated. This way the sensor interrupt is disabled between the time the sensor is tripped until it finishes firing the spark. The way I had it written there is the possibility that the sensor interrupt could be triggered multiple times while the magnet was near the sensor.

If the sensor input is noisy then it could be triggered multiple times, and each time it would load a new delay value. I'm not sure that this actually ever caused any problems, but it could make the timing wrong or variable over the duration that the sensor was activated. That could make the timing a deg or two late on some revolutions if the sensor input was noisy.

This is a smarter way to manage the interrupts. Thanks Nyemi!


I have found the ignition to be very reliable in it's timing. This code improvement should take out a degree or two of jitter if the sensor input is being noisy. I'll hopefully post a video sometime this weekend to show how the ignition is functioning.

To time my engine I use two easy methods. First I hook everything up and slowly turn the engine until the LED flashes. I look at what degree this happens at and this gives me the rough hall position. Then I punch that number into the spreadsheet hall setting. Next I make a flat curve that is set for near the factory advance. Flash that and run it on the engine.

Now with a timing light I look at what the actual ignition advance is running at. If there is any difference in the set timing vs the measured timing I then adjust the hall setting to correct it. Mostly I am finding that it is no more than 1 digi-degree off. Once that is set correctly I load whatever curve I am experimenting with.

I have found that the program works right. It will track the RPM and fire with the right advance over the whole RPM curve.

This weekend I'll add Nyemi's change, take a video, and post a v1.0 release to the website! A big thanks to everyone who has helped on this project!

The next step is to work on the 1840 code. The 683 is at the limits of what it can do I think. Running two tables and having a kill switch are good features and it accomplishes everything a good CDI program needs to.

With the 1840 I'll add on-the-fly calculation of the entire advance curve and serial communication. I like the link Gompy posted to the solid state CDI design. I think the transformer design we use now works great, but alternate designs are always cool to experiment with. If we want to switch to an Atmel processor, that will be no problem. Right now the PIC seems to be working well. The 1840 will run at 32 MHz, providing 8 MIPS of processing power. Many of the Atmel chips will run at 20 MHz and provide 20 MIPS of power. I learned the PIC just for this project and I'm not terribly attached to either company's processors. Before I would have preferred Atmel, but now that I've learned PIC programming I don't really care that much. PICs are cheap and currently they seem to provide good processors in the 8-pin DIP packages. I'm working towards a dual-processor design and like the idea of using two 8-pin PICs as opposed to SMT or larger package choices. The PICs have better package choices for what I plan on doing IMHO, and the only real reason I see for switching to Atmel would be if we needed more processing power. I think 8 MIPS is probably more than enough (compared to the 2 MIPS we're using now). It seems like just about the right amount for what we're doing, and I think PICs are a little more durable.


-Jake

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