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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/14/2012 3:15 AM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		Mine copies the code to clipboard for pasteing great. Don't know how you get this problem unless the excel sheet was corrupted when you downloaded it Rob.
Have you figured it out yet? If I don't change the optionreg statement which just switches from before sensor to after sensor, it only changes timing a few degrees but still runs fine on my engine with the hex file I create from it.

John

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/14/2012 6:44 AM  1 votes
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ORIGINAL: Gompy
There is also a line not right into the 12F683 code
OPTION_REG = 0b00000000; // pullups on, falling edge, Tmr0

It must be:
OPTION_REG = 0b10000000; // pullups off, falling edge, Tmr0


This isn't an error. The pullups should be enabled in OPTION_REG. Only the hall sensor pullup is actually turned on.

If you're getting negative values in the table settings send me a copy so I can see what is going on. There should be a minimum value for each of the table settings, but some of the user settings at the start of the table probably don't have the value checks in place.


-Jake

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/14/2012 10:53 AM  1 votes
Gompy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jakestew

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gompy
There is also a line not right into the 12F683 code
OPTION_REG = 0b00000000; // pullups on, falling edge, Tmr0

It must be:
OPTION_REG = 0b10000000; // pullups off, falling edge, Tmr0


This isn't an error. The pullups should be enabled in OPTION_REG. Only the hall sensor pullup is actually turned on.


Why, there is allready a external pull-up resistant (R9) on the PCB, see schematic.

quote:

If you're getting negative values in the table settings send me a copy so I can see what is going on. There should be a minimum value for each of the table settings, but some of the user settings at the start of the table probably don't have the value checks in place.

-Jake


The problem is much bigger, see photo's
The timing go negative, ATDC and that can blow you engine / exhaust.


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< Message edited by Gompy -- 12/14/2012 7:40 PM >

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 2:11 AM  1 votes
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gompy

Oeps.....


Read only cell, illegal value, sensor degree '0', est. Start RPM '-4688'. Not good, oh well you won't know if you don't try. To error is human.

Gompy do you get an error message asking you to "End" or "Debug" ? When you open the Excel workbook in Office 2003?

Ray



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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 2:26 AM  1 votes
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ORIGINAL: gr8flyer55

Ray, now that you have one of the working timer boards, program a 683 chip with the setup specs and Rob's curve and see what you get for results. I just tried version 1.0 software and am not seeing the problem Rob is seeing. More eyes on a problem may see what is causing it. I know if I type in my start up setting for hall position on the engine at 32 degrees, eliminating Jake's setting of 49 degrees, it works for me. Unless there is another glitch somewhere, this setup works on my running engine tracked with a timing light up to 8,000 rpm's. Check if you can and let us know what you find.

John



Sorry John, business has been very busy lately with Xmas and all. I haven't had time to do much on the ignition but, this weekend is mostly open and I will try to get as much done as possible. Jake created the Excel speadsheets mostly with macros so there isn't much VBA code for me to modify/change. I have found 1 error that gives me an error message when I open the workbook in Office 2003, I'll send this to Jake and go from there, it's an easy fix. I'll also be putting my orders in for parts this weekend so maybe I'll have something new for you's this coming week. Oh I don't have any engine that can go above 11,000 rpm so I'll have to make something up, I can go digitaly to 32,000 rpm and then measure the frequence and use my scope to get the advance degrees. Also I can look at the wave forms and post them, this might help

Ray

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 4:29 PM  1 votes
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Status: offline 		Sheet error (?)

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 5:12 PM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		I hope you talked to Jake in email about this potential error in the worksheet.
The way it looks to me, edits were done in the command formulas and wrong destinations are given in response. This is very confusing. If I go with the normal sensor range settings, mine is working. Unless Jake can figure out what you are trying to do by setting the sensor past 40 degrees, there is nothing I can figure out that will work for those settings.

Does the timing work correctly if you follow the normal setup of 28 to 32 degrees for physical sensor location on the engine?
If I understand correctly, you are telling it that you are placing the sensor at 60 degrees and are having the problem appear. I think it is out of the normal range for the formula to work correctly. Your situation seems way too far advanced for it to be computed correctly and give you what you need. Maybe it's not possible to go past 40 degrees in the setup.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 5:36 PM  1 votes
Gompy



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Status: offline 		Normaly the ignitiontime of a Homelite will be 24 till 27 degrees BTDC.
Place the hallesensor to 30 degrees BTDC will be imposseble I think.
You need some calculationtime befro fire the spark.

It doesn't matter where I set the hallsensor (40 or 50 or 60 degrees) the value is copy 1 to copy 2 is wrong.
It copy K14 to E21....**** is K14.....empty cell ?
Into the macro it's OK, but the program will do something else.
I remove the button so I can't make the mistake to copy empty cells.

I change the SCR timing to 100 usec and the engine timing is much better.
We use into our 12F628 CDI 56 usec for SCR timing, so 100 usec is OK for now.
I can't find the timing of the SCR we use, it's tryl and error for the moment.

Still have a problem with tha max rpm, at 12,500 rpm the timing jumps to 20 or 30 degrees ATDC.

Table switch isn't work to like it use to be.
I have to remove or place the jumper, then shut on / off the power to switch tables.

BTW, is you make the MSD_Delay less, it will burn the 78L05.
The current at 4000 usec is 200 mA less then if you set the delay to 400 usec.
Problem, you can't shut-off the MSD, you have to use 4msec for MSD and this will be also (I think) the max rpm problem.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 5:48 PM  1 votes
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Status: offline 		Gompy that macro command is correct but, the formula for that cell is not. It shows the value for that cell =K14 and it should be =K4.
Oh you saw that.

The formula in the cell overrides the macro. Either correct the cell or remove the formula, save the workbook, close it, and reopen it and it should be fine. Nope that didn't work but, I'll find it.

As for the other problems, we'll have to work on them.

Ray


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 6:01 PM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		Sounds like we need all new software to properly use the available functions on the B board.
I've been using my original timer with my settings and curves without problems. I didn't change the MSD delay so that was not an issue for me. As for the current draw, any settings I made in the sheet do not make any excess current draw. At 10,000 rpm, my current draw is never over 200 mah total with my old timer and original ignition circuit.

Changes will have to be made for the new timer board with the 78L05 so it doesn't burn up. Presently, mine doesn't have an issue with current draw the way it is powered. Oh well, back to square one again.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 6:08 PM  1 votes
Gompy



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Status: offline 		I try to set the hallsensor to 30 degrees BTDC and a table start of 24 degrees BTDC.
The timing is lost complete controle and at 8,000 rpm it jumps all over the disk.

Uhhhh....there is K4 into the cell, but not after copy 1 -> copy 2
Remove the button is the best solution

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 6:20 PM  1 votes
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ORIGINAL: Gompy

I try to set the hallsensor to 30 degrees BTDC and a table start of 24 degrees BTDC.
The timing is lost complete controle and at 8,000 rpm it jumps all over the disk.

Uhhhh....there is K4 into the cell, but not after copy 1 -> copy 2
Remove the button is the best solution



I don't know why Excel is incrementing the value by 10, I know having programmed VBA (Office) it can do real stupid things and sometimes it really pis_es me off. Anyway here is the fix.

Sub Move_User_Settings()
' Move_User_Settings Macro
    'Range("E11").Copy Destination:=Range("E21") Rem this line with a (') at the begining.
    Range("E21").Value = Range("E11")  Add this line and it will work fine.
    Range("E13").Copy Destination:=Range("E23")
    Range("E14").Copy Destination:=Range("E24")
    Range("E15").Copy Destination:=Range("E25")
    Range("E16").Copy Destination:=Range("E26")
    Range("E17").Copy Destination:=Range("E27")
    Range("E18").Copy Destination:=Range("E28")
    Application.CutCopyMode = False
    Range("A1,A1").Select
End Sub

For 2003 users you should rem these lines out if you get an error when opening the workbook:
Private Sub Workbook_Open()
    Me.Worksheets("Setup_Settings").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
    Me.Worksheets("Advance_Curves").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
    Me.Worksheets("Saved_Curves").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
    Me.Worksheets("Table_Values").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
    Me.Worksheets("12F683_Code").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
    Me.Worksheets("12F1840_Code").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
    Me.Worksheets("Compiler_Command_Lines").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
'    SendKeys "^{F1}", True
'    Application.DisplayFullScreen = True
'    Application.ExecuteExcel4Macro "SHOW.TOOLBAR(" & Chr(34) & "Ribbon" & Chr(34) & ",False)"
    ActiveWindow.DisplayHeadings = False
    Application.DisplayFormulaBar = False
    'If Application.CommandBars.Item("Ribbon").Height > 100 Then Rem this line
    '    SendKeys "^{F1}"                                                                                 Rem this line
    'End If                                                                                                          Rem this line
    Sheets("Setup_Settings").Select
    Range("A1,A1").Select
End Sub

Let Jake or me know if you find other problems.

Ray

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 7:11 PM  1 votes
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Status: offline 		I just realized that this problem also happens in Office 2007 so the spreadsheet needs to be modified, I'll post a fixed version later.

Ray

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 7:27 PM  1 votes
Gompy



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Status: offline 		For only 4 values so much work.....remove the (usless) button, error solved.
More important will be the timing, I don't want to blow a hole into my pistons.

I don't say the software is complete sh*t, but it need some updates now we know the problems.
If the 683 software will be the same like the 1840, we will have the same problems too.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 7:48 PM  1 votes
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gompy

For only 4 values so much work.....remove the (usless) button, error solved.
More important will be the timing, I don't want to blow a hole into my pistons.

I don't say the software is complete sh*t, but it need some updates now we know the problems.
If the 683 software will be the same like the 1840, we will have the same problems too.


Patience Gompy I have the spreadsheet fixed. I will now work on the timing problem as soon as I get a test circuit setup.

Ray

The F1 on the end denotes Fix 1.
Gompy's version with latest fixes. "Pull-ups are turned off for the switches and the polarities are reversed CDI-2012_v1.0_B-F1.xlsm"
www.unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/Pull-ups are turned off for the switches and 0the polarities are reversed CDI-2012_v1.0_B-F1.xlsm

Standard version with latest fixes: "CDI-2012_v1.0-F1.xlsm"
www.unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/excel/CDI-2012_v1.0-F1.xlsm

Explanation of fixes:
www.unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/excel/Version F1 Fixes.txt

These should be tested, also let me know if there are any problems with them.

Ray

< Message edited by Nav-Aids -- 12/16/2012 6:05 AM >

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 8:02 PM  1 votes
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Status: offline 		I just programmed a new PIC-version, 40 degrees BTDC and a straight line of 24 degrees BTDC.
Within the range of 2000 till 10,000 rpm the timing will be at 10,000 rpm 12 degrees.
For a normal 2 stroke Homelite this is a very good table with good values.
BUT, thats not wat I have programmed and thats the problem.
It look good on paper, but into the field it's not good.

First I was thinking it was the magneticfeeld, at high speed the feeld moves and will be smaller.
Now I use a optosensor with a window of 5 degrees, very small, zo there is no 20 or more degrees magnetic window like the hallsensor have.

It's no problem to use this software, but you have to program only straight lines and use twostroke engines

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/15/2012 8:13 PM   
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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/16/2012 4:59 PM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		Ray, have you been in contact with Jake about the problems with the excel sheet and the fixes you have done?
Seems he is now to busy with his other projects. I am about to program my first chip with your corrections, although I think the timing problems haven't been addressed as of this time. Is there anything really potentially wrong using my curves with the current "fixed" F1 version? Or should I hold off until you take a look at the file for any problems?
I can just do a static test first which I always do anyway, but if there's nothing really wrong, I'll do my actual engine tests today to check functional switches, starting and top end timing etc.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/16/2012 5:57 PM  1 votes
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ORIGINAL: gr8flyer55

Ray, have you been in contact with Jake about the problems with the excel sheet and the fixes you have done?
Seems he is now to busy with his other projects. I am about to program my first chip with your corrections, although I think the timing problems haven't been addressed as of this time. Is there anything really potentially wrong using my curves with the current "fixed" F1 version? Or should I hold off until you take a look at the file for any problems?
I can just do a static test first which I always do anyway, but if there's nothing really wrong, I'll do my actual engine tests today to check functional switches, starting and top end timing etc.

John



I have been in touch with Jake early last week and he is in the middle of exams right now, exams should be finished by now or by Wednesday at the latest, that's how mine were. The only thing I fixed were problems with the spreadsheets themselves, from what I saw some of the values weren't being copied properly. As for the 'C' code itself, that remains unchanged but, the timing values should be what is selected now. Some problems only appeared in Excel 2003 and some were in both. In your case you were using Excel 2007/2010 so there shouldn't be anything code wise that has changed for you so go nuts and let me know how it goes. Please note that only curve-1 is copied to the clipboard, I could not remember if just cuvre-1 got copied or both curve-1 and curve-2 got copied. I have to build a Gompy Timing Light right now.

Cheers

Ray

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/16/2012 8:29 PM  1 votes
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Status: offline 		Again some movies to show wat happens with the timing

Curve 1 at 11,500 rpm ATDC



Curve 2 at 8350 rpm ATDC



Setupfiles


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/16/2012 10:46 PM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: offline 		If I program a curve to either table and save it, then reload it later, it works great. Only the copy command from table one to table two is at fault. Otherwise, I ran an engine with it today and it follows the programmed curve exactly to the degrees of the program. Don't know what else to say. I can't duplicate the timing change problem.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/16/2012 11:04 PM  1 votes
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Status: offline 		Follow the wave is not follow the curve, thats the differens.
I copy only one table into the code, I copy both tables to the code, I copy the complete code, I edit by hand and it's allways the same......wrong.
I don't know a other way to show wat is wrong, movies aren't problably not enough.
Have fun with the code, but don't complain if some one blow his engine and thye cost are yours.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/16/2012 11:50 PM  1 votes
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Status: offline 		I am the only one testing it on an engine. My engine won't go past 7500 rpm so I don't have the problem. If its bad software, it's bad software. Not a problem. What I use in my planes was written by Nyemi. Never a problem. In fact, yesterday we flew one of my ignitions with Nyemi's software in a $7,000 airplane. Perfect performance all around. MSD works well on the DA 60 in that plane and some top contest flyers are now asking to try it. It's all I probably would ever need, but Jake's would be nice when it is working correctly I think.
When these problems are worked out, we will test it in my friend's plane.
The features it has make it desirable, not the problems. We were off to a good start just like last time though there are problems. I think it's all fixable though. I'm not afraid to do engine testing myself. I have nothing to lose, my engines cost me nothing other than my time.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/17/2012 12:05 AM   
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Status: offline 		There is the monkey with the banana......Nyemi's software.

I'm done with it.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/18/2012 8:42 PM  1 votes
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Status: offline 		I remember something about some type of NET file that had to be updated to get things working..anyone remember what the file was?
I used to have problems until I updated them but can't remember what the name of the files were..Microsoft Netsomething..

John


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