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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/18/2012 9:14 PM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: online 		I just remembered what it was. Net Framework.
If these files are not up to date, it says on microsoft's website, that all kinds of problems will result from running Visual Basic routines etc. Everything I can think of problem wise with the spreadsheet is all dependent on Net Framework. I'm hoping this is a solution to the wrong data being copied to the wrong cells in Excel. Mine was updated last year when they announced the update fixed numerous complaints in Microsoft applications such as Excel. Hope this is it. There is nothing else that could be machine specific as this problem.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/18/2012 10:08 PM   
bluejets


 

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Status: offline 		If I remember correctly, one had to install a particular version of microsoft netframework in order for the monitor program to work.

This was on the old 16F628A timer with the control software. That part worked very well.

Might have been version 3.5 or 4.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/18/2012 10:08 PM   
Muciek


 

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EDit: sorry I was late with this answer. Didnt see other one's


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/19/2012 5:22 AM  1 votes
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Status: offline 		The .Net Framework is not needed for the spreadsheet, it doesn't use it. Mind you the Office updates and service packs can't hurt.

Ray

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/31/2012 2:50 AM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: online 		Ray, the fixes you made on the excel sheet seem to work good. There are few if any problems in the software except the rpm limitations. So, if it is used on a regular gas engine in the 7,000-9,000 rpm range it should now be fine.

Is there anyone else testing the software, programming curves etc. ?

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/31/2012 2:54 AM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: online 		If Jake can post the "fixed" sheets on the website we can move on to the next version. I have version 1 working fairly well running my test engine just fine, easy starts, curve switching works, and the ignition kill is also working, without RFI.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/31/2012 9:07 AM  1 votes
bluejets


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gr8flyer55


Is there anyone else testing the software, programming curves etc. ?

John



I started to but ran into more strife than one can imagine with the Mplab throwing up errors. Tried uninstalling and re-installing various versions without much success. I can manage to get a hex file out of one install now but it would be anyones guess if it is any good given the errors the Mplab throws up. Spent 3 days on it now , just a waste of time really. Even tried a fresh windowsXP install but nope.

Nothing to do with Jakes software, it does it with other proven c code also. Sent a message to Microchip but doubt will get much sense from them given i'm running on WindowsXP.

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/31/2012 10:48 AM  1 votes
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Status: offline 		Rename to hex, 30.000 rpm / 30 degrees BTDC.

Happy NewYear.

Attachments
Click to see the file in new window.Attachment.txt


< Message edited by Gompy -- 1/1/2013 10:57 PM >

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/31/2012 11:23 PM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: online 		Jeff, did you get all the Microchip files in order? I had no problems after downloading the updated device files for the XC8 compiler. I think it was suggested a few pages back about them.
Haven't had a chance to test Rob's hex file yet, but I think he must have gotten his programming figured out or he wouldn't have posted the file.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 12/31/2012 11:27 PM  1 votes
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Happy New Year..

Hungarian

Sikerekben gazdag, Boldog Új Évet kívánok mindenkinek.

Üdvözlettel nyemi


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/1/2013 12:01 AM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: online 		Hi Nyemi !!
Happy New Year !!!

I am hoping to get all the problems behind us in the new year.
There are a few new projects coming to go with the ones we have completed. A nice timing light, some optical switching devices, and maybe even a more efficient, simpler, and smaller ignition for the new smaller sized planes. I'm working on the size, then the power requirements. Possibly going as low as 3.7 volts from a single LiPo cell for power. I know it's already been done commercially, we need it done cheaper.
Hoping it is going to be a good year.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/1/2013 1:14 AM  1 votes
bluejets


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gr8flyer55

Jeff, did you get all the Microchip files in order? I had no problems after downloading the updated device files for the XC8 compiler. I think it was suggested a few pages back about them.
Haven't had a chance to test Rob's hex file yet, but I think he must have gotten his programming figured out or he wouldn't have posted the file.

John



No, no luck what-so-ever John.

So I did like you suggested just went right back to page 30 but did not see any reference to xc8 compiler.

You mention update device files for the compiler, where did you get these. A search on Microchip returns maybe 30,000 results.

I might try and download latest Mplab and xc8 again, format the drive (again) and see if anything comes up differently.

Happy New Year....

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/1/2013 5:35 AM   
dinoslmn



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I wish to all of you a Happy New Year, healthfulness, happiness, good flyings (and landings) and....softwares without bugs

Dino,

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/1/2013 3:25 PM   
stewccm500


 

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Status: offline 		hi, all at rc univers. can anyone help with a cdi problem ? i have some understanding of electronics, but i need some more detailed help. i have seen that the rc world of clever people can make a cdi run very eficiently from a small dc supply. all i need is the power supply part of this to run an old british scrambler bike (ccm500 made in 1979, origional cdi ran from small alternator, rectifyed to 3-10 volt dc, powered an inifficent socillator to charge a capacitor and give the spark. timing is by a lucas rita magnetic pick up on cam shaft, shape and size of  blade, coil inductance etc automaticly gives very good timig advance/ ret, triggering a sensitive thyristor for spark) it only just worked ! kick over speed is very slow (11/1 comp ratio, castor oil in winter !) a similar better syestem was avalible as an option with re-chargeable batteres, but this was all in a very big  box with a ht lead comming out of it. i have tryed improving the origional system but to buy and modify a modern cdi box is probably the way to go.
thanks stew.


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/1/2013 4:22 PM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: online 		Hi Stew.
Seems like you are in need of a CDI upgrade for your system. Our CDI is probably adaptable to your system with some minor changes made to it. Ours requires a dedicated power supply that is regulated to 5 volts. Your supply needs to at least supply the initial voltage from the alternator since there was no mention of it having a battery. Filtering it thru a large capacitor to retain voltage for startup is a requirement unless you make up a power switching arrangement with a small battery somewhere in the setup. Ours takes a voltage constant for the timing chip to initialize and be stabilized befor it can produce the first spark. The issue of a magnetic pickup can be worked out. Ours uses a hall sensor and a South Pole magnet for the trigger.
Once you work out those few steps, you could probably use a system like ours.
Hope this helps. If not, I'm sure others can offer some suggestions to get your system figured out.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/1/2013 8:04 PM   
stewccm500


 

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Status: offline 		hi john, thanks for the reply to my odd question. (its hardly an rc model !) what cdi are you refering to ? is it something you make or sell ? i could make a new alternator to supply a regulated dc to run it ? (the origional alternator only generates power during ex / intake / comp, to charge the cap. it dosent generate any power near to fireing.) if it was a full circle rotor, the output would be double, so that seems very good. the spark  timing could be an issue. at kick over speed (approx 150 rpm) it fiers at tdc. from there to 2500 rpm it advances (linier) to 36 / 38 degree btdc. it stays at that angle to 8000 rpm (max) how the the lucas rita pickup is configured it works very well. i have never had any dealing with a hall sensor (35 years making and fixing race bikes and cars) but it could be a posibility. early ccm cdi (1970,s)  used a single power transistor. later models used a single mosfet, these were free running oscillatos. dose yours use 2 mosfets and a crystal of some sort to make a stable frequence ?
thanks stew.


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/1/2013 8:13 PM  1 votes
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Well everyone these are the lastest fixes to the spreadsheet and so far everything seems to be working ok as far as the copying of values. As usual let me know if there are any other problems. This is version 1.1

Ray


CDI-2012_v1.0-F1.1.xlsm
unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/excel/CDI-2012_v1.0-F1.1.xlsm

Pull-ups are turned off for the switches and the polarities are reversed CDI-2012_v1.0_B-F1.1.xlsm
unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/excel/Pull-ups%20are%20turned%20off%20for%20the%20switches%20and%20the%20polarities%20are%20reversed%20CDI-2012_v1.0_B-F1.1.xlsm

Revisions and Fixes Jan 1-2013.txt
unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/excel/Revisions%20and%20Fixes%20Jan%201-2013.txt



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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/1/2013 9:06 PM  1 votes
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Status: offline 		Stew there is no easy answer to your question without knowing more about your current setup.
Stew CDI's basically come in 2 versions, AC and DC, and this relates to their power supply. AC uses either a AC output magneto or alternator and DC is usually a combination of a battery and/or a AC magneto, AC alternator, or DC generator. On my Ski-Doo the Rotax engine is a AC magneto (lighting coil and large cap) and the CDI converts this to regulated DC for the CDI ignition. On my Honda XL250 it uses a battery and a regulated AC alternator, the battery is used to provide power to the CDI for starting and once rpm comes up the alterantor provides power. There are many different designs and ways to power a CDI, for example, some use the higher voltage of the AC magneto to provide the stepup voltage (about 90 - 250 volts AC) to the ignition coil. These use a thyristor, SCR, or MOSFET to discharge the cap and trigger the coil. In this setup no oscillator for voltage stepup is required but, you have to kick the motor over quite fast to start and most people I know replaced or modified this system with a battery or very large capacitor for starting power. They also had to add a very large (power) zener, resistor and a rectifier to control charging.

As John pointed out about or system is that it requires 6-12volts to the 5 volt regulator which in turn supplies power to the Timer and HV boards. How go get 6 -12 volts to 5 volt regulator is up to you.  Right now you can make your own, ask Gompy if he has something that will work or wait until someone else offers a built system.

Ray

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/1/2013 9:38 PM  1 votes
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: online 		Very well thought out description and answers to those questions Ray. I think on Robs site there is an AC scooter ignition build and schematic from which Stew can decipher enough information to completely replace or solve his ignition's lack of startup voltage. I actually built one of those TCI systems back when Rob first posted them and it actually worked as a replacement on an old Kawasaki dirt bike. There are also others like our CDI project he could use. Transmic's site had plenty of info on doing just that.
Either way, it seems he needs the basic hv generation circuit, the constant oscillator to make his high voltage first. A small battery powered version would get him in the ballpark of what he needs to accomplish, the 250 volts for charging the cap.

John
P.s.
Thanks for posting your new fixes for the excel sheets!
I'm sure we are on the trouble free path now. Programmed a 683 chip with Rob's hex, now all I need is a warmer day to run my engine with it and check it out for timing etc.

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/3/2013 4:57 PM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: online 		Rob, what board and chip was the hex file for?

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/3/2013 8:32 PM   
stewccm500


 

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Status: offline 		hi ray, the company  that actualy made all the cdi,s for ccm are still going ! over the years i have bought several different types of cdi from them and some second hand from the speedway community, to get the old bike running. one was a new designe with a different trigger set up (still a coil and magnet, but the magnet rotates) this was in 1993. it cost over £300 ! it was powered from the same 1/3 segment alternator not generaring continuos power. the spark energy at kick over speed was very good. unfortunatly the timing advance was hoples. there was not enough range of movement in the electronis. if it was set so it could be started without kicking back, it would not rev. if set to rev it would kick back so hard it would break engine parts ! (putting the kick start leaver through the sole of my boot) they said there was nothing wrong this new ignition and would not repear or replace it. i went back to re chargeable boxes uesing the lucas trigger. i even repared one of the with the help of an rc plane freind of mine.  when the last one of these stopped working i un potted the £300 box to see if i could modify it to run with the correct trigger. i have not been able to get it to go. for the last year or so i have been in monthly contact with the origional company to get another ignition. at first they were going to make a new alternator system uesing new inverter technology, to give a more reliable eficent cdi. but i have given up on that and spent the last 2 months trying to  sort it out. the ac  from the oscillator is over 500 volts when rectifyed it is still over 400 volts dc this is probbably to overcome the compression stresses in the engine ? i may be old fashion with regard to digital or programable stuff but the old technology cdi can work very will. all i need is the power supply !
stew

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/3/2013 8:52 PM  1 votes
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Attachments
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Click for fullsize 		Click to see the file in new window.Attachment.txt Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/4/2013 1:05 PM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: online 		Rob, looks like you have the timing problem solved, and your ignition is working good with lots of spark energy at high rpms.
Very nice indeed!

John


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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/4/2013 6:10 PM   
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Status: offline 		Excellent work Rob.

Ray

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55 - 1/4/2013 8:18 PM   
gr8flyer55


 

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Status: online 		I tried programming a 683 chip with that attached hex file and it just sits there, no action. Not sure what's wrong. Tried jumpers on, jumpers off, no response from the chip. Give it a try Ray and see what you get. I reprogrammed the same chip with my hex file and it works fine.

John


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