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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/14/2011 7:40 AM   
erans


 

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From: Perth WA, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hi Jose
Thank you for this tip, it made huge difference :-)

Back to the build:
So, after the motivation hit with the first attempt to construct the aileron, it was time for the second attempt. I took Jose's suggestion to build it flat on the plans, but also decided to modify it to a bit more "old fashion" construction which will make it more rigid to my preference (not that I doubt Jose's design) and will allow me to sand it more easily.
So, I added a full length TE and used triangles reinforcements on the middle ribs. Then, I have sanded it all up (I am sure I have mentioned before how much I hate sanding) and it came out nice.
Then, I tack glued the bottom Fliteskin and placed the aileron onto the jig.
The Gorilla glue is quite nasty to work with, and also I tried to pure as little as possible, I made a mental note to use even less of it on the next glue application. I found that I needed all the T-pins I had to tack the Fliteskin to the aileron and I do not think I did a good job on the LE where it curves just before the edge (of the Fliteskin). I am not sure yet how to do it better next time.

I have also took the opportunity today to get the second 1/4" sheet on the wing LE. I think I am slowly get to the no return point of heaving to sand the wings LE.


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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/15/2011 2:59 AM   
JGrc



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Status: offline 		well I'm glad it worked out the second time. I sheeted my ailerons with 1/16 balsa since they had to be solartexed anyways. You are right about the gorilla glue, but once you figure it out you, is easy. Only need little, since it expands quite a lot.
To sheet the wings you only neet lots of pins on the L.E. to hold tight against the balsa. I use lots of magazines to keep the skins against the ribs while the glue sets.

JG

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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/15/2011 3:07 PM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		I am quite please with my progress today. I used the cloudy weather with perfect temperature to sit outside with my dust mask and got the LE sanding done. It took about an hour to sand it all. I used the ribs drawing on sheet two of the plans to determine the location of the most "outer" section of the curve of the LE. Then, I drew a line to the length of the LE and sanded a curve to that line which matched the curve of the ribs.
I cannot imagine doing it without the Perma-Grit sanders.
A word of advice to anybody buying a set. Do not bother with the curved sanders. They are useless... I am yet to find a sanding application that I can use them on. I always thought that sanding a leading edge will be it... I was wrong. Much easier to do it with the long flat sander.

I have also released the left aileron from the jig after gluing the top Fliteskin. The LE will need work (as expected). My next step was to released the "tack glue" from the bottom and to apply Gorilla glue. I have then placed it back in the jig. Unfortunately, no matter what I did, I noticed that the bottom surface is not perfect flat. To avoid destroying the aileron, I took it out of the jig and clamped it using sheets of balsa (to protect it and to apply even flat force). This worked well and the bottom surface looks good.

Being the first aeroplane part I used the Fliteskin on, I am not sure what my opinion is about it all. I find doing the process of gluing the Fliteskin very difficult, with the glue being hard to work with and the obvious need for pressure to stop the expansion of the glue lifting the Fliteskin from the part. On the other hand, the result is quite impressive. I think, that to make it all more workable (on small curvy parts) I will need a "fluid" weight, something like sand-bag if you get my idea. This way, a uniform weight can be applied more easily. I will have a think about it over the next few days (which I believe I will not have a chance to make progress on anyway due to other commitments).

I have spent the day today trying to buy new transmitter to give me more then the 7 channels of my trusty Spektrum DX7. I have made my mind to get the JR 11X. I have visited two shops, and called the third one (the 3 big shops in Perth) and none had it in Mode 2 (it is not mode changeable). Then, I went on the Internet and could not find a single shop in Australia that had it in stock (3 shops didn't have stock level indicator, so I will call them tomorrow). How sad is that? Shame on the Australian distributor. While I was in the first shop, the shop owner called the distributor and he indicated that it will be available again in 2 months... I repeat, 2 month, not weeks...
I did however got some bits and pieces, the most interesting one is stainless steal 1/4" rods which are much lighter then the brass rods I had for the control of the flaps. I will check with my friend who volunteered to drill them for me if he mind doing both sets for me, and will check if it feels as strong (which I think it will be also the wall thickness is much narrower).


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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/15/2011 11:03 PM   
JGrc



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Status: offline 		Looks pretty good, start experimenting with a bit less glue.

JG

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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/16/2011 11:10 AM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		Also no progress on the build today, I did receive some good news.
In the morning I managed to secure a JR 11X set from one of the 3 shops that didn't have stock level indicator as mentioned yesterday. It will be sent by road from Sydney, so I have at least a week before I will receive it.
Due to the fact that the "standard" JR packaging it is coming with a 9 channel receiver, I went to the shop and bought the Spektrum 12 Channel receiver with power safe. This is quite awesome piece of electronic device, which will save me the need for the "2Pac Dual Battery System" I was using in my SU-31, a device that allow connection of two batteries and control voltage drop and failure exactly like the power safe feature on the receiver.
While I was in the shop I also got some other bits and pieces such as refuelling valve, JR heavy duty switches etc... The shop owner was happy...
As I got back home, I found on my doorstep a package from Intairco with the Jet Tronic air valve and some additional air line.



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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/18/2011 2:04 PM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		With rain bucketing down outside today, I skipped on going to the airfield. Instead, my wife asked me to help planting new plants in the garden in the rain breaks. This gave me an opportunity to do a bit of unplanned work on the Me-109.
First, I sanded the Gorilla glue where it came out of the glue joints of the left aileron, and trimmed the Fliteskin to match the outer shape where needed. I then used balsa filler to fix my aileron LE. I will sand it all up with fine sandpaper and am considering fibre-glass sheeting of this area, probably I will do both ailerons at the same time.

I then started work on the right aileron. So much easier second time


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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/18/2011 2:12 PM   
ticketec


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: erans

Also no progress on the build today, I did receive some good news.
In the morning I managed to secure a JR 11X set from one of the 3 shops that didn't have stock level indicator as mentioned yesterday. It will be sent by road from Sydney, so I have at least a week before I will receive it.
Due to the fact that the ''standard'' JR packaging it is coming with a 9 channel receiver, I went to the shop and bought the Spektrum 12 Channel receiver with power safe. This is quite awesome piece of electronic device, which will save me the need for the ''2Pac Dual Battery System'' I was using in my SU-31, a device that allow connection of two batteries and control voltage drop and failure exactly like the power safe feature on the receiver.
While I was in the shop I also got some other bits and pieces such as refuelling valve, JR heavy duty switches etc... The shop owner was happy...
As I got back home, I found on my doorstep a package from Intairco with the Jet Tronic air valve and some additional air line.




Hey Mate,

Looking good there on the build so far.

Just be careful with the 9100 R/X's, because they DO NOT have any built in voltage regulator circuits. We also thought the same and had been flying my buddy's new ESM hurricane with 2x 2s li-po's plugged in. The servos were seeing 7.2V and we were very lucky to to fry any of them. If you do some reseach on the Spektrum site, you will see that they sell some voltage reg's to suit Li-po users. Having siad that. Once you have the regulators going, they are a fantastic R/X I use them on my turbine models and some of my larger warbirds. I'm jst about to buy a smartfly turboreg for my current warbird and try that out with one of these R/X's

Thanks

dave

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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/19/2011 1:43 AM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		Thank you for the information Dave.
So far I have never used LiPo in my aeroplanes. I usually use Sanyo Eneloop batteries rated at 6V (5 cell setup).

My "normal" setup is two Eneloop batteries connected to two seperate switches and then into "42 Percent 2Pac Dual Battery System" (as seen here - http://www.42-percent-products.com/home.html - scroll down) and into the receiver using single plug.
This setup drives, in my SU-31, 4x 12.1 kg/cm Hitec 5645MG, a larger 18 kg/cm Hitec 5745MG and 1xHitec 5485HB without a problem.

For the first time I ordered some Hobbico LiFe batteries rated at 6.6V and advertised as heaving no issue with direct connection to the receiver without voltage regulator. The reason for trying LiFe being that I have no intention remove the batteries from my aeroplane every time I charge it, as required with LiPo.

Cheers,
Eran


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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/20/2011 9:25 AM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		Back to some productivity today. Between fixing a computer and some other chores, I managed to complete the right aileron to fully sheeted with Fliteskin stage. The last photo is of the bottom side glued held clamped as I cannot get it done on the jig.

My question to the fibreglass guru's out there - what is the best method to fill the pin holes in the fibreglass sheeting?

Eran


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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/21/2011 8:13 PM   
glazier808



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Status: offline 		Erans!

Great to see you on with your build! I've just returned from a long and taxing trip to Vienna with my two little ones and my beautiful wife...glad to be back !

I hope to be back on my build here as soon as I can clean up my bench area and figure out where I left off... Before I left I did some paint practice by airbrushing my ESM 109 as Gallands that he scored his 40th vic in...so I think I'm still painting? LOL

I do know that I still don't have my replacement ECS's from Castle as of yet...

Casey

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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/22/2011 3:10 PM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Casey - It is a great feeling to be able to make good progress at last. The build was dragging for too long.
I cannot wait for you to get going again. Your build is something I can only dream about and as you know I follow it closely.
As to travelling with kids, 3 years ago I took my 1 year old daughter on 7 hours flight to Hong-Kong. It took me 2 years to recover from the experience...

I went to see a friend of mine from my RC club yesterday who was assigned with the task to put my Saito FG-20 back together after the massive H9 P-51 crash. We have fired it up and after some tuning it is good to go, so I am back in the hunt for an aeroplane for it. I was very tempted with the ESM Me-109 E, but was not sure if the FG-20 will have enough power for it. My other issue is that by the time you get proper retracts, cockpit kit, spinner etc it is quite expensive... I am not sure what I will end up with, it can be anything from warbird to Piper Cub...

That same friend came today to have a look at my Me-109. He was very impressed with the "kit" and was stunned by how light the ailerons were with the Fliteskin cover. Jose just gave me some advice regarding fixing the pin holes by using light weight body filler as used in the automotive industry. I will try to get some tomorrow.

I started the day today by separating the two fibreglass slats using my scroll saw (one of the best hobby tools). I just had to see how they fit on the wing, and they do fit very well.
Then I worked on the right flap, again, slightly modifying it to strengthen the ribs so they won't break when I hold it for sanding.

I receive error when loading the photos, so I will load them later.




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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/23/2011 11:18 PM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		Finally, photos can be uploaded.
The slats:


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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/23/2011 11:20 PM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		Photo of the two completed ailerons and the right flap construction (with minor modifications). I could not find part F4 on the laser cut sheets, so I made one tracing the next rib TE. The angle for the LE was copied from part F5.


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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/24/2011 1:30 AM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		Frustration this morning. I got the flap out of the jig and found out that the TE looks like a wave. I should have used my old fashion construction methods and build a solid TE before the glue line... I will try to fix this as I did not yet glued the bottom part, but I am not very optimistic.


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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/24/2011 2:12 PM   
JGrc



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Status: offline 		Eran,

you should be able to separate the two sheets apart with a saw blade and re-join. It probably got wavy when you taped them together.
JG

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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/25/2011 7:36 AM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Jose, at the time I didn't yet glued the bottom Fliteskin, but only tack glued it with CA. It was only the top Fliteskin that was properly glued.
I have since glued in a full length TE and it looks that it did the trick. Some sanding to shape and it should be fine.



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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/25/2011 10:38 AM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		I have some problems uploading photos recently. Here are the photos of the new TE for the right flap.


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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/25/2011 3:24 PM   
JGrc



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Status: offline 		Nice trailing edge! it's also very strong and you won't be able to dent it.

JG



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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/26/2011 5:40 AM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		Jose - I don't know how you manage to do it (without the wood TE)... Your workmanship is art.
The good new is that I have just looked at the flap after gluing the bottom Fliteskin and it looks OK, almost perfect line.

I forgot to mention it on Friday, but I have received my JR 11X
Slowly all the bits and pieces coming together.



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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 9/29/2011 8:49 AM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		No much progress this week, I did manage to build the left flap yesterday, but didn't even got to finish sanding it (the TE)...
I also keep getting the error "500 Internal Server Error" (as in the picture) when I try to upload photos to this site, I have no idea why.


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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 10/2/2011 9:23 AM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		Over the last couple of days, I managed to complete the left flap and covered it with Fliteskin. What I still need to do is to sand both flaps and give them some finishing touches.

Also today at the airfield Matt has delivered to me the drilled Brass and Stainless Steel 1/4" tubes for the flap operation. He did very nice job on it saving me from dealing with the dilemma of modifying the operation of the flaps to multiple servos. I will probably use the stainless steel tubes as they are a bit lighter. My next step will be to install the tubes and the socket head screws through them while I have access from the "top" of the wing. Then I can cover the top wing with Fliteskin.

The last surprise waited for me at home when I found a mail package at the door from Bisson, Canada, with the muffler for the MVVS 30. First time I got mail delivery on Sunday...


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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 10/2/2011 1:20 PM   
JGrc



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Status: offline 		Very nice work Eran,

I don't use nearly as many pins so I don't have to fill the holes. Stainless steel torque rods! wow that's fancy.

JG

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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 10/2/2011 2:17 PM   
erans


 

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Status: offline 		Thank you Jose, I am still a bit struggling with the application of the Fliteskin and am a bit nervous getting closer to the wing Fliteskin covering.
I was struggling to make the Fliteskin to conform to the curve of the flap and aileron LE. It is very possible that I was trying to skin it too far forward, I am not sure... One other question I have for you is if you left the LE of the flap and aileron as bare balsa or did you applied fibreglass on it? If balsa, did you just painted directly on it or did it require some other pre-painting preparation to fibreglass?
Not heaving the kind of experience that is probably required to build this kit leave me many times wondering on how to do stuff that is probably obvious to others.

One example is that I am still a bit unsure how the aileron will end up working properly with its "unusual" (at least for me) LE shape and the "extensions" on the wing TE top. If I just mate it to its intended place and try to move it up and down it currently looks to me as if the movement upward will be very restricted... It may all suddenly just work once I finish to skin the wing top with Fliteskin and hinge the aileron into its intended place. I don't know...
This is only one example of where my lack of experience costing me time in figuring out what is probably obvious to more experienced builders.

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RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 10/2/2011 7:08 PM   
JGrc



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Status: offline 		Hi Eran,

the leading edges are always glassed with a narrow strip of glass cloth and resin. Apply a strip of masking tape on top and bottom to create the edge of the L.E. glassing area. When the resin is cured, you sand smooth to the masking tape and you end up with a scale looking L.E. panel.
The ailerons, in this case I did not use the fliteskin since the full size had fabric covered ailerons. I built with balsa and covered with Solartex. AFter that I applied the pinking tape.

Aileron geometry: to mount the hinges, you can use the jigging tabs to line up aileron with the wing and then glue the hinge on the wing trailing edge. The aileorns have differencial throw, so they move up more than they move down. Just look at the plans and see the position of the aileron servo arm/hinge situation.

I hope this helps.

JG

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< Message edited by JGrc -- 10/2/2011 9:13 PM >

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Fliteskin is tougher than you think!

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(in reply to erans)
       Post #: 74

RE: Another Fliteskin ME 109 build thread - 10/3/2011 1:12 PM   
erans


 

Posts: 366
Score: 100
Joined: 6/9/2008
Last Login: 4/28/2013
From: Perth WA, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Thank you Jose, I didn't realise that the ailerons sit so far back from the TE.
I have spent some time today cleaning / sanding the ailerons and the flaps from all the Gorilla glue and preparing them for LE glassing. However, I had a knock on the door and the UPS delivery guy was there with my new Great Planes Waco, so, it was time to call it a day on the Me-109 and clear the table for the Waco.
I do not expect it to take me too long to put the Waco together, so I will be back here soon...


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