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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/21/2011 8:44 AM   
AmishWarlord



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As per recommendations by John and Greg I got an 11oz Hayes tank to try out on my engine test stand.

Looks like I'll be switching brands of tanks. LOL




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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/21/2011 7:16 PM   
foodstick



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Status: offline 		I use only gasoline engines now, and I like the dubro tanks, But I would LOVE if the opening was about twice as big where the bung inserts in the tank.

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/21/2011 10:01 PM   
GREG DOE


 

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Status: online 		For those new to the hobby, Hayes and Kraft fuel tanks are one and the same. Chuck Hayes
worked for Kraft, and designed many of their molded products, including I believe several
of their servos. His designs, in many cases were ahead of their time, and are still used 40 years
later. My question is "who owns the fuel tank line now?" Greg

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/21/2011 10:54 PM   
AmishWarlord



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This company does.

http://www.custominjection.com/index.php?body=aboutus

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/22/2011 5:11 AM   
GREG DOE


 

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Status: online 		Thanks for the info. Greg

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/22/2011 6:16 AM   
Dave McDonald



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jester_s1

Looks like an engineering student got bored and created a solution to a problem that does not exist. A properly set up standard tank does not foam, does not get the clunk stuck forward, does not leak, and does not bubble.


DITTO!

Count me in as another long time Hayes tank fan.

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/21/2012 11:17 PM   
Bill Lairsey


 

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Status: offline 		I have used one in two airplanes now with no problems... another advantage is if no seal problems develope you don't have to worry about the tygon tubing needing to be replaced at least every year... some times more often... Bill


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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/22/2012 1:13 AM   
jester_s1


 

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Status: offline 		Wow Bill, you missed resurrecting an exactly year old thread by just one day!

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/22/2012 4:03 PM   
k3 valley flyer


 

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Status: offline 		Been using Hayes tanks for years, they are the best. Will do almost anything to replace cheap arf tanks with a Hayes, sand formers, mod sheeting, etc etc. Always well worth the trouble. Have solved others "engine" problems just by replacing their tank with a Hayes. Once you try them you will never go back. Oh yeah it takes about 30 seconds to assemble one, no tube bending, no stopper screw, no leaks, never uderstood why some guys just have to have the ones with tubes and stoppers?

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/22/2012 6:02 PM   
AmishWarlord



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Status: offline 		Wish Hayes made lager tanks like 24oz.

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/22/2012 7:23 PM   
landeck


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: k3 valley flyer

Been using Hayes tanks for years, they are the best. Will do almost anything to replace cheap arf tanks with a Hayes, sand formers, mod sheeting, etc etc. Always well worth the trouble. Have solved others ''engine'' problems just by replacing their tank with a Hayes. Once you try them you will never go back. Oh yeah it takes about 30 seconds to assemble one, no tube bending, no stopper screw, no leaks, never uderstood why some guys just have to have the ones with tubes and stoppers?



About 2/3 of my planes have cowled in engines requiring a three line fuel system. With the Hayes tanks the thrid line can only be used for fueling the plane; it can not be used to empty the fuel tank. Otherwise they are good tanks.

Bruce

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/22/2012 10:21 PM   
GREG DOE


 

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Status: online 		TURN YOUR AIRPLANE UPSIDE DOWN, AND YOU CAN USE THE THIRD LINE TO EMPTY YOUR TANK.

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 3:27 PM   
k3 valley flyer


 

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Status: offline 		Most of my 32 planes are cowled also, but have never been a fan of three line set-ups. I have no argument with those that perfer them, just not for me. I use some type of filler with a small hole in the cowl to reach the filler. Even a three line system usually has to have a hole in the cowl for the fuel dot etc. Now some guys perfer three lines over a filler and that is fine. I just never liked two clunks and plugging that third line. I am sure both methods have pro and cons. If Hayes made a tank that would work with three lines better might try it. With two lines and a filler the fill and drain issue with one clunk is solved. But fuel dots look nice on scale planes.

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 4:51 PM   
bikerbc


 

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Status: offline 		I have been using the Hayes tanks for a while now and I really like them..They are way easier...I was a bit worried they might leak at first but so far I have had no problems whatsoever...They work great but I havent tried them on my gassers because I worry about the leaking thing..They just dont feel as tight...Does anybody else use them for gas?? I have been thinking about trying a Roto Flow Tank Just So I would know A bit more about them..I even sent them a E Mail with a few questions ..How come nobody is carrying these tanks? To expensive??They are awfull pricy....I dont think I really need one of their tanks , I just want one. Its Just Bling Bling..I am kind of like a Crow I like shiny things....Thanks to SigMan for bringing this subject up...

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 5:10 PM   
JohnBuckner



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quote:

ORIGINAL: bikerbc
..They work great but I havent tried them on my gassers because I worry about the leaking thing..They just dont feel as tight...Does anybody else use them for gas??




Yes I use them on virtually all my fifty odd aircraft with the exception of a few bubbless tanks for certain airplanes. And yes in the gassers, the 16 ounce is plenty for my flights which are typically around eight minutes. Finally there is not a third line setup in any of my airplanes or is it missed and yes many are close cowled. The two line setups are even better and quicker to de/refuel.

Both of these are fifty cc gassers both on 16 ounce hayes and both two line with zero problems defueling, even easier than defueling with a third line.


Oh ya, forgot my Big Buck built in 74 its a gasser refurbished in honor of the original builder. Its also a gasser and now uses a Hayes.


John

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 5:39 PM   
bikerbc


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks John I am going to start using them on my Gassers too...They are so easy to use...I am building a BUSA 1/4 Cub with a 160 Gemini in it and thats what I was thinking about using the Roto Flow tank in...This plane is going to break the bank anyway...

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 5:52 PM   
JohnBuckner



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Status: online 		You are welcome and fears of the hayes leaking is pretty much a non event and certainly not the problem conventionals can be.

I've never tryed the roto flow but it certainly looks like it could also do the job well.

Back in January at the Ontario show I talked with some of the Hayes folks at their booth and of course inquired about a larger tank. The response was bleak as the cost of new molds would be prohibitive for the projected sales from a new large tank.

John

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 5:56 PM   
bikerbc


 

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Status: offline 		John How do you have the two line set up...The vent line runs out the bottom...The clunk line has the little filter break by the cowl where you fuel and defuel . Does that sound about rite?? Could you draw a pic?

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 6:01 PM   
bikerbc


 

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Status: offline 		John I love Arthur's Airplane Is that some sort of add on ail on the left hand wing? I dont see anything on the right hand wing...

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 6:14 PM   
JohnBuckner



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Status: online 		Look at the picture of the yellow airplane with the fueler hooked up. Yes the tanks vent runs out the bottom and you can see it in that picture. The clunk/carb line is the one that run out/in the cowl and is separated there where the pump is hooked up to push fuel into the tank untill it runs out the vent just like a trainer or you pull the fuel out (defuel) with the pump. There are only two lines that go into the tank not three as there would be with a fuel dot.

The only differance with the glow engines is the vent line is just hooked up to the muffler. You still fuel and defuel from a break of the clunk/carb line which makes a small loop out/in the cowl.


Also in the case of cowled two stroke glow engines that simple loop in/out of the cowl gives that all important place to do the 'pinch' when one chooses to tune to a pinch. Something I make every effort to teach every student or anyone who will listen.

John



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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 6:28 PM   
landeck


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GREG DOE

TURN YOUR AIRPLANE UPSIDE DOWN, AND YOU CAN USE THE THIRD LINE TO EMPTY YOUR TANK.


That will still leave a good amount of fuel in the plane unless you turn the plane on its nose at the end. I know because I have tried it. In the end I just find it clumsy - that is my personal feeling.

JohnBuckner, you have shown that approach a number of times. I tried it on a plane many years ago and just did not like how it looked.

k3 valley flyer, if you are talking about the DuBro quick fill valve,

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD745&P=ML

I have tried it twice and in the end found that the O-rings began to leak or the valve began to stick resulting in engine problems. I have not tried their new valve.

Only two of my current 13 flying planes do not use a standard three line system with two klunks and fuel dot. I find that that works fine for me, never gives me a problem, and looks good. The only problem is that on those planes I can not use the Hayes or RotoFlow tanks which I agree are good tanks.

Bruce

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 6:30 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		I broke down and let John talk me into a Hays tank a couple years back using a YS engine. My thinking was the YS could pop out the cap. It hasn't and it hasn't leaked at all either. Any time I use a two line tank I go directly to the Hays tank now days. I have more problems finding them in any of my LHS though and I don't do enough mail ordering to bother just buying tanks. With the YS engines I can just use a Tee in the main line to fill and empty. They work pretty well, wish I could find a good source of sizes in my area.
I have also met a fellow using that new tank and it broke inside, you can't repair it when they break.

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 6:40 PM   
JohnBuckner



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quote:

ORIGINAL: bikerbc

John I love Arthur's Airplane Is that some sort of add on ail on the left hand wing? I dont see anything on the right hand wing...




Ah Yes I totally love that magnigicient old Buckineer. That covering and paint is the original put on in 1974 and it is Ceconite 103 the lightest grade full scale synthetic fabric and its still in great condidtion. Arthurs orginal AMA owners tag is still inside the airplane with his address in Idaho at the time.

That single piece wing sticks four feet out the back of my truck along with the entire tail when transporting and is lightly built. Every time when I reach the field that end of the wing just warps so I added a fixed trim that takes care of that problem. It even changes during the course of the day. It is hinged and I added a dead ended pushrod with clevis at both ends and that allows all the adjustment needed.

Here is a picture of Arthur about seven years ago on his last trip to the field at age 92 I beleve, he pased away several weeks later. He is holding the last airplane he ever built but was unable to complete, a Sig kit TriStar that I had the honor of completing and was able to fly it for him several times that day.

John

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 6:57 PM   
JohnBuckner



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ORIGINAL: landeck

JohnBuckner, you have shown that approach a number of times. I tried it on a plane many years ago and just did not like how it looked.




Ah Yes Bruce its the old 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' thing. But for me functionality (a beautiful thing) trumps beauty every time


John

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RE: RotoFlow clunkless fuel tank - 9/23/2012 7:33 PM   
Granpooba


 

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ORIGINAL: landeck

The problem I see with it is that there is no way to add a second interal line for fueling/emptying the tank on cowled engines. Also it is pricey and I question reliabiltiy.

Bruce


If you read about the product in full, you will find that a second line is easily added. Pricey maybe, but do you know anybody that has taken their cash to heaven ? Reliability is total, from what I have been told.

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