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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 2/27/2012 1:50 PM   
Mike Mangus


 

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Status: offline 		I don't think one can highjack a thread they started to post pictures of the original thread topic. Welcome back.

Looks like it is coming together nicely. Where did you find that thrust tube at?

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 3/12/2012 7:47 AM   
Air Sally


 

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Status: offline 		looking good "D" the inlet ring looks good in there .

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 4/5/2012 1:23 AM   
George Miller



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From: Rio Linda, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Here are some photos of my second 55" EDF F-4 Phantom. Some like this scheme better than my "Grey Ghost".

Interesting thing here: Did you know that only one Mig was ever shot down my a Marine pilot during the entire Vietnam war who was flying a mission for the Marine Corp. Yes other Marine pilots did shoot down Migs, but while attached to the Air Force. A Marine pilots mission is of a different nature than going up to shoot down Migs. His is mainly to support Marines in combat situations.

And this is the F-4 that did that. While flying C.A.P. for the squadron, he was jumped by two Mig 21's. Shot down one and the other ran away.

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 4/5/2012 5:07 PM   
JeffH


 

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Status: offline 		Is there an ETA on this kit? SPring Air is not exactly known for their quick movements.

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 4/5/2012 9:02 PM   
dionysusbacchus



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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffH

Is there an ETA on this kit? SPring Air is not exactly known for their quick movements.


LOL! I know what you mean, I ordered a set of retracts on the phone and paid immediately, was told they would be sent out, never heard from them again until I filed a claim with Paypal 40 days later, finally received my retracts 45 days after I ordered them! Very nice retracts, much better than Robart, it's just a shame that they operate that way. I personally would forget about some kind of kit coming from them, go somewhere else.

Sunset Models makes a copy of the George Miller F-4 http://www.sunset-models.com/index.html he said he improved the stab mechanism also, I would give them a shout. It is not listed on their web site, but he does make one.


George, talk to me brotha, what torque do you recommend for the stab servo? I don't need overkill, just a servo that will do the job. By the way, very nice F-4's, I think you have the F-4 down pretty good! Your old kit, the one I got, is nowhere near the quality of kit you make today. I'm going to do my best to make this relic look good though, my goal is to make you proud!





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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 4/18/2012 2:47 PM   
speedbrake



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Status: offline 		Today is day 50 after ordering something from SpringAir. No product and no word from them. I emailed them five days ago but have yet to receive an answer. I don't mind waiting for a product if I know what is going on with the transaction. Failing to keep a paying customer aware is an absolute dismal business practice. Regardless of how good their product is I will probably not purchase from them again.

Keith

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 4/19/2012 3:03 AM   
dionysusbacchus



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quote:

ORIGINAL: speedbrake

Today is day 50 after ordering something from SpringAir. No product and no word from them. I emailed them five days ago but have yet to receive an answer. I don't mind waiting for a product if I know what is going on with the transaction. Failing to keep a paying customer aware is an absolute dismal business practice. Regardless of how good their product is I will probably not purchase from them again.

Keith


You have to do something to get them to communicate, I waited the limit of 40 days to open a dispute with PayPal and that got them to send my merchandise. If I had done nothing I'm sure they would have stolen my money. You waited to long, they have 30 days to ship after contacting you about the delay and you must open a dispute within 40 days. Now they can do what they want with you.



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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 4/19/2012 9:07 PM   
speedbrake



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Status: offline 		I'm station on Bahrain. We learn to expect long delays with mail. But...lesson learned about Paypal. They wouldn't help and said it was my problem because I didn't file earlier. I did phone SpringAir and they said the order was mailed today....19 April. I'll keep this thread posted on when the package arrives and what the postmark date is. SpringAir was sorry for the delay. We are encouraged to buy American...but it sure can leave a sour taste doing so!!

Keith

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 4/29/2012 7:52 AM   
speedbrake



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From: Fort Valley, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Well......... no retracts yet. Priority mail usually takes 6 to 10 days from the states. A total of 60 days since I ordered a set of retracts.

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 4/29/2012 8:54 AM   
vasek



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Status: offline 		I would advise to use the 40 day rule. If you don't get you order shipped with a tracking no. after 40 days, send an email to the seller you will be filing a dispute @ paypal. Saved my a$$ once, the guy kept stalling and stalling. This way i got my money back.

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 4/29/2012 4:14 PM   
speedbrake



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Status: offline 		The retracts arrived today. The package was mailed on the 19th. The total time was 60 days. As I said before, I can deal with extended time periods as long as I'm aware of what is going on. The quality of the retracts is very good.

Keith

< Message edited by speedbrake -- 5/2/2012 9:30 AM >

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 5/13/2012 4:17 AM   
Topgun2mo



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Status: offline 		Great Thread! I saw a George Miller F-4 kit on RCG that I missed and was upset about it. George made stuff that had great performance without the complexity. George, I wish you would at least sell short kits with plans. Just the other day after missing the F-4 I thought Custom R/C just sold stuff that almost anyone could have success with.

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 5/13/2012 8:47 PM   
George Miller



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From: Rio Linda, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Spring Air has had a problem with the person who does fiberglass work for them. And it seams their time frame is going to be too much.

I cannot express enough to you modelers out there just how great my 55" F-4 Phantom is.

I get contacts about it all the time. I have modelers coming by the shop and offering me up to $1000.00 for me to produce them a kit. But I am old now, retired, and just not interested in doing kits anymore.

So I am again trying to find someone who wants to go into business and offer this F-4 to modelers.

The only thing that makes any sense to me is to make a hard copy out of my molds and send it to someone who has the ability to make molds from it. The molds are just too heavy to consider shipping.

I build up the wings. But would suggest for ease of modeling by others that the wings be turned into foam cores. I have contacted companies for this and this can be done for about $30.00 a set.

I have full size plans and the complete construction process in photos.

So, if there is anyone out there who is interested in kitting this aircraft, let me know.

E-mail address: Katonka@sbcglobal.net

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 6/2/2012 1:18 AM   
jetint8ke


 

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From: perth amboy, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		@GRBAKER,hello,i would like to know how you did the stab unit on the george miller F-4 you had ,if you could please post some pics on the setup ,i really don't want to use the setup that comes with the kit ,thanks a million

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 6/2/2012 2:49 AM   
grbaker



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Status: online 		I used the stab mechanism from the Jet Model Products F-4 Phantom on 2 of my George Miller Phantoms. The first Miller I built, I used his mechanism. It worked OK.

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 6/2/2012 7:29 PM   
jetint8ke


 

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Status: offline 		@grbaker ,thanks for the pic ,i have the mechanisium from an old tom cook F-4 that a friend of mine gave me ,it simular to the one you show ,agian thanks a million


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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 6/10/2012 12:17 AM   
ShaneSunday


 

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Status: offline 		Dion your F4 looks the dogs mate!!! I love the F4 always have. I want one but never quite happy with what's out there in the arf bin. George How do I get my hands on one of yours?

Dion keep up the good work. It might be a while but I'll bet my ass to a tea kettle it'll be worth every millisecond.




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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 7/10/2012 5:28 PM   
George Miller



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From: Rio Linda, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Shane,

In regards to the e-mail you sent me, If you go to the first page of this thread, you will see the plans for the F-4 that Iron Bay is trying to sell you for $50.00. If you think they are something that you could scratch build your own F-4 from, then go for it. I personally doubt it. And in this age and time, with the power units out there, is this the size of F-4 that you really want?

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 7/11/2012 1:38 AM   
scalepilot



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Status: offline 		George,

I sent an email and PM about making kits.  :-)

Thanks,
Matt

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 7/23/2012 8:01 AM   
George Miller



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quote:

ORIGINAL: George Miller

Spring Air has had a problem with the person who does fiberglass work for them. And it seams their time frame is going to be too much.

I cannot express enough to you modelers out there just how great my 55'' F-4 Phantom is.

I get contacts about it all the time. I have modelers coming by the shop and offering me up to $1000.00 for me to produce them a kit. But I am old now, retired, and just not interested in doing kits anymore.

So I am again trying to find someone who wants to go into business and offer this F-4 to modelers.

The only thing that makes any sense to me is to make a hard copy out of my molds and send it to someone who has the ability to make molds from it. The molds are just too heavy to consider shipping.

I build up the wings. But would suggest for ease of modeling by others that the wings be turned into foam cores. I have contacted companies for this and this can be done for about $30.00 a set.

I have full size plans and the complete construction process in photos.

So, if there is anyone out there who is interested in kitting this aircraft, let me know.

E-mail address: Katonka@sbcglobal.net

I need to clear something up here. After over two years of developing this F-4, with thousands of hours in designing, engineering, construction, and test flying this aircraft, I have many modelers and some who claim they are kit manufacturers contacting me about doing this F-4. And they all think this stuff and work is coming to them for free so they can make kits of this aircraft and make money selling them.

This is not the case and please don't contact me about this if that is your thinking.

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 7/23/2012 8:20 AM   
George Miller



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jetint8ke

@GRBAKER,hello,i would like to know how you did the stab unit on the george miller F-4 you had ,if you could please post some pics on the setup ,i really don't want to use the setup that comes with the kit ,thanks a million


I'll tell you a funny story:

After 22 years of selling over a thousand of my F-4 kits, I have never had one single customer contact me about having my stab mechanism fail. And I am sure if one ever did, I would have heard from that customer.

One of the times I was at the Fan Fly in Texas, a modelers came up to me and showed me his F-4 with two Dyna-max fans in it. It was very nice and well done and he had decided to use Tom Cook's stab mechanism in it. And Tom Cook was there with him.

When it came time for them to fly, and Tom Cook was going to do the flying for him, I just came over, stood back and watched. Now it took them quite a while to get both the fans working together and in sinc with each other. They finally accomplished that and Tom taxied out for take off. It took considerably more roll to get this heavier wing loaded aircraft off the runway, and into the air only to find out that when these two fans unloaded they were out of sinc again. Luckily they had in flight fuel mixture control and after a period of working with it they got them in sinc again. So here comes the flight. And the first thing Tom does is put it in a shallow dive to make a high speed pass over the runway.

It never came out of the dive. Straight into the runway and it wasn't pretty from there.

The stab mechanism had failed.

I never said a word. I just walked away. Nothing I could have said would have gone over well.

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 7/23/2012 10:46 AM   
ShaneSunday


 

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Status: offline 		Hey there George.
   I just read a very good article from 1993 in ScaleRC modeler december issue. There was a good few phantoms in that issue and one was Highway patrol. Not the colour scheme of any phantom I've seen but like it says in the mag, it sure turnes heads. I really enjoyed reading the stuff you said about the phantom and all the things you had learned up until then. As well the explanation on why the F4 is such a forgiving platform for learning ducted jets. All food for thought. It was a good article and worth while reading. Your F4's are beautiful and from what I've read fly very well. It's a pitty there is no real plan available to build from as it would have made it easier. All one has to do now is exactly what you did. All the homework. Either that or buy another kit.

I appreciate your reply to my email a while back it helped me out a lot. Now it's time to start studying that Phantom. Hope all works out for you because she is a beauty.


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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 8/18/2012 8:11 PM   
dionysusbacchus



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Status: offline 		I have been working slowly on this project along with a few others at least! I've basically finished the wings. I use my ultra light weight finishing system of thinned Z-poxy resin, about 40 percent resin to 60 percent alcohol. No sanding of resin is needed, it's just enough to stick the cloth to the wood, next I fill the weave with spot putty and acetone. This sands very easily, then just prime with a thick build primer and wet sand.

I'm going to add the racks, missiles and tanks, along with some panel line detail. That will come after I get these wings attached to the fuselage.

And George, your 55" F-4 is way to small. Like you used to say, "it does not give you the presentation that this larger aircraft will give you." And maybe instead of using my thread to sell your smaller F-4 maybe you should post it in the marketplace.

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 8/19/2012 1:52 PM   
grbaker



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quote:

And the first thing Tom does is put it in a shallow dive to make a high speed pass over the runway.

It never came out of the dive. Straight into the runway and it wasn't pretty from there.

The stab mechanism had failed.


George,

The stab mechanism did not fail. The stab servo was not up to the task (not enough torque). After that one crashed there were 2 more of your phantom kits built with twin Dynamax power, one with .77s and one with .91s. Both flew at top speeds much much higher than any of the Byron powered F-4s and the JMP stab mechanisms were just fine. My twin .77 powered one was as fast as my Starfire IIb which was clocked at 190 mph on several occassions.

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RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George! - 8/20/2012 2:43 AM   
George Miller



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quote:

ORIGINAL: grbaker

quote:

And the first thing Tom does is put it in a shallow dive to make a high speed pass over the runway.

It never came out of the dive. Straight into the runway and it wasn't pretty from there.

The stab mechanism had failed.


George,

The stab mechanism did not fail. The stab servo was not up to the task (not enough torque). After that one crashed there were 2 more of your phantom kits built with twin Dynamax power, one with .77s and one with .91s. Both flew at top speeds much much higher than any of the Byron powered F-4s and the JMP stab mechanisms were just fine. My twin .77 powered one was as fast as my Starfire IIb which was clocked at 190 mph on several occassions.



Hi Gary,

Thank you for the information and putting me straight. I was just going on what they said when it crashed. I was there at the time.

But I too couldn't really figure how Tom's unit would fail. Being metal and all.

No one has ever given me further info about what really happened before.

And I too have built a F-4 using two Dynamax fans. I built "Sageburner" F-4H-1. Notice the smaller nose and the canopy before they raised it.

But I was not very happy with it. Turning this F-4 of mine which usually comes out at about 11 to 12 pounds into a 17 pound model greatly reduced all of it's good qualities for additional speed.

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