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So what would you do in this situation?????
Walk away and forget about it
  35% (102)
Insist that restitution be made
  57% (163)
File a law suite
  6% (19)


Total Votes : 284
(last vote on : 10/5/2011 5:17 AM)
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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/19/2011 11:21 PM   
rcjets12



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Status: offline 		For any pilot to expect restitution because of an accident then they are in the wrong hobby. Yes our jets are expensive and for some don't come as easy as others but if we expect someone at a jet meet to pay us because of an accident it just wrong. Whats next are we going to tell people at our local flying field that they can't fly because they own inexpensive trainers, foamies or other planes and can't afford a jet or to pay us if they run into our jet with a trainer. Good luck. Remember there's more of them every day flyers that are not flying jets than there are of us. It a battle that we will not win.


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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 1:19 AM   
mwhar760



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Status: offline 		Man!!! there must really be something wrong with the mustang pilot!!!! if that were me and i had done that no matter where you jet was parked i would have at the very least made some form of restitution!!! even if i could not afford to pay for the repairs i would have felt so bad for tearing up someone elses plane that i would have given them mine!!! it may not be worth as much but it would have at the least been something to make up for my stupidity!!!!  or  honest accident!!!!!you know some people just plain refuse to take responibility for their actions!!! and then blame it on someone else!!! he must also be a goverment politition!!!!!!

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 4:00 AM   
bikerbc


 

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Status: offline 		I agree that I would have felt very bad andwould have tried to find a way to make restitution..I do not think it is fair to call an honest accident stupidity...I have lost controle of a plane or two in my day.. I still do...Most of the time I get it back ,somtimes I do not and it gets broken usually by itself. But it could be any number of things that happen...I take responsibility but not everybody does..I usually see guys saying there was a glitch or somthing failed blah blah not my fault etc etc...We are not all the same and not everybody can stand to admit they made a mistake..Sad but true...Give him some time...He might come thru...He might just feel real bad..If not there is diddly squat you can do anyway with out lowering yourself .

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 4:20 AM   
mwhar760



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Status: offline 		yes!!! I would have to agree with you!!! 

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 4:38 AM   
AndyAndrews



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quote:

ORIGINAL: edh13

quote:

ORIGINAL: causeitflies

My point of view... from five feet away.

This was just one of those unfortunate accidents that happen occasionally. The owner of the jet took the high road and moved on after realizing that no compensation would be paid.

As for the Mustang pilot, he did not try to sneak away like nothing happened as some have insinuated. In fact he waited for pictures to be taken before moving his plane. And he didn't just land uncontrollably into the pits. As a matter of fact he made a nice wheel touchdown right in the middle of the designated runway. But as sometimes happens with a small ruddered warbird, the 5 mph crosswind got the best of him as he slowed down. So he WAS in control, right up until the point where he WASN'T LOL. He explained the obvious, that the wind caught him and he couldn't straighten the plane out with full rudder and even used full aileron too. Maybe he should have given it throttle to get some air over the rudder, or up elevator to plant the tail wheel, or kill the engine to lessen the damage and not use aileron which could make it worse (adverse yaw). But whatever, the accident happened.

So next some guys start on this guy about his piloting skills and how he should learn how to land an airplane. He felt insulted and at this point it started to get a little heated and he said the jets shouldn't be parked in that area. I not so politely pointed out where the flight line was and where his plane ended up.

The owner of the jet was not around when all this happened and someone went to look for him. The Mustang pilot started to walk away and was told to wait for the owner of the jet. I don't think he realized that the owner wasn't among the guys giving him a hard time so it's not like he was trying to sneak off. When the owner showed up the two of them had some discussion which I was not trying to hear. So if the guy was a jerk after that, I have no idea, as I left the area.

I'm not trying to stick up for the guy but some facts and a little empathy help to explain the situation he was in.



As usual the other side of the story comes out. And this time not by the other principle but an honest bystander without a dog in the fight. My initial reaction to the OP was a size eleven in the canopy. But after reading this and inspecting the first pic in the OP. My opinion (which was requested) has shifted slightly in favor of the Mustang guy.

From a small but vocal slice of our hobby that wastes no opportunity to remind how expensive these models are and how much work is involved and how experienced you have to be to even own one… A group who has complained that spectators should not even be allowed at jet meets let alone be near one as to damage it…

Can you state honestly THAT THIS IS A SAFE PLACE TO PARK YOUR MODELS??? I saw the word reckless above. Perfect caption for this pic.





Apparently you are correct for this rally lol. Not even a 150 foot wide runway is wide enough for some.

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 4:43 AM   
tlj125


 

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Status: offline 		I saw the P51 hit the Scorpion at the DOGS show that Saturday around 3:30, shortly after the show had ended and we were back to open flying. The P51 landed and then rolled behind the flight line. It rolled a long way before hitting the jet. There was about a 10 mph wind that was just to the right of straight down the runway. The plane basically followed straight into the wind and it appeared that no rudder correction was attempted. I think the pilot, from his perspective 150-200 ft away, thought he was going to miss the planes parked next to the grass. And he would have if he would have just continued going straight off into the grass. At the last instant, he put in full right rudder and turned right into the Scorpion. He turned so sharply that the left wing of the P51 was pierced by the nose of the Scorpion. Then the P51 lifted and rotated and the prop hit the side of the jet a few revolutions under the cockpit and at the inlet, finally stopping the prop. It hit the jet with enough force that it looked as though it had been kicked. The P51 pilot had plenty of time for correction before hitting the Scorpion. He simply did not do so. He didn't shut down the engine, he didn't take back off and do a go around, and he didn't steer away. It looked to me as though he was landing into the wind and then just kept rolling behind the flight line with no rudder inputs until just before hitting the Scorpion. I was the one who found Gary, the owner of the Scorpion, and told him someone ran into his plane. I went with him out to check out the damage. Confronting the pilot turned ugly quick. He was unapologetic and running his mouth pretty good about arrogant jet guys and that the jets shouldn't be parked there, etc. I got in his face and told him I saw the whole thing and it was definitely his fault and he needed to make it right. He said to me that he lost control of his plane due to the wind and that he was giving full left rudder but the plane wasn't responding. I told him I was watching and this is not what he did and even if it was true he still needed to make it right. When Gary tried to speak to him, the guy just turned and started to walk away. One of the folks running the show got involved and tried to mediate. Gary was willing to work something out but the other guy wasn't. The bottom line is that this guy was anything but a gentleman. He chose to be mean and nasty even though he caused the incident in the first place. This guy told me he had been flying RC for 30 years and that there was nothing he could have done to prevent the accident. Even if that is true, it is inexcusable to act the way he did afterwards. How hard would it have been to appologize and offer something to help repairs? Had he done so, this thread would not be here. I hope the guy reads this and realizes how badly he acted. It is not too late to make things right. I challenge you to post your own version of events and address the problem you caused.

Terry Jacobs

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 4:53 AM   
AndyAndrews



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Status: offline 		Hahah, what a tool. Unbelievable.

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 4:56 AM   
tlj125


 

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Status: offline 		By the way, the jets were parked there as directed by the show coordinators. The jets were near last to fly and the planes were mostly still there because the show had recently ended.

Terry Jacobs

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 5:44 AM   
Robert_Ellis


 

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Status: offline 		My $.02:

1. The man in the straw hat screwed up. It seems he had adequate time to at least kill the engine even if the the crosswind was too strong to taxi in. And the first words should have been "Oh, crap I am sorry - who owns this jet - let me talk to him." Then offer something to make up for it.

2. The Jets were really in a vulnerable place as far as I can see from the picture. There was no fencing to stop errant airplanes. If it were my plane, I wouldn't have it 30 feet from the flight line without any fence between me and other landing airplanes.

3. If you guys were so close to see it happen, why didn't somebody yell or run out and grab the plane by the tail? I know if I saw that coming at my plane, I'd be doing my best to prevent a collision. When I was first learning, I had the plane rolling right at me and couldn't find the throttle cut - I just put my foot out and stopped it by the spinner.

At my field, there are some guys that when they are flying, I pull my 100cc airplanes back next to a building and I never take my eye off their planes when in the air. It doesn't sound like this guy was one of "those" pilots, but everyone makes mistakes now and then.

As a side note, I race with SCCA in formula continental. If some guy crashes into you - you're both damaged, you each repair your own car. It's racing. If it were any other way, the sport would spontaneously combust into a bonfire of lawsuits and die. At one race, during the pace lap before the green flag dropped, the car in front of me spun off into the gravel, then shot back across the track and hit me hard. The race hadn't even started yet and he had no reason to be going that fast to lose control. I ended up with damage that cost me about $4000 in parts and I repaired it myself. The guy was a blood-sucking lawyer (not that all lawyers are mind you) and could have offered to help me out, but "sorry" was all I got. That's racing.

The bottom line in this case, the guy should have offered him SOMETHING and apologized profusely. That's what I would have done if it had been me.

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 6:40 AM   
guille2006



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Status: offline 		C'mon!!!! You have to be kidding... tìyou cannot call "damage" to thos two chips of paint!!!!! **** happens; and I'm not telling that you are not to be angry, but going into courts is too much.
My point is: each one pays for his plane, and both gets a beer... our planes are beatiful and important for us but thay are our "toys"; do they worth a season in court? You have to be kidding!!!!!!
It's a hobby!!!!!!!! wake up!!!!!!!!!! It was not intentional!!!!!!!!!!
why don't you wear his pants for a while (both of you)? It's the best way to understand what happened/how to solve...

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 9:40 AM   
bikerbc


 

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Status: offline 		Fear and anger are emotions so close that they get confused somtimes. I bet when it happened the guy was a bit   " Holy s..t now what " scared embarased  tuning easily into anger to hide it...It seems to me 30 ft is pretty close to the flight line or am I missing somthing here? I don't know how it is there but up here most of us pilots know each other...We might only see each other once a year but we are mostly friends...We have meets like float flys etc. where we get together in different areas many times a year..I can't recall ever having a conflict...We are to busy having fun..It amazes me to see the amount of anger in other areas...Its seems like some guys are spoiling for a fight...Name calling and such like...I am glad our club is not like that. We have suffered some pretty bad accidents just like everybody else but we mostly sit down and talk it over and try to figure out how to prevent it from happening again...Blame seldom comes into it except in a fun loving teasing way somtimes if the guy can take it...It just seems to me it would be more productive to look at maybe relocating the parking of the jets than picking on the guy that had the accident...

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 11:58 AM   
telejojo


 

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Status: offline 		It's understood at our field that if run into somebody's plane on the ground you pay for damage but midair's nobody's fault.

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 12:29 PM   
on_your_six


 

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Status: offline 		Problem with rules is that they never seem to apply to a given situation. So you say that a guy that causes a mid-air by flying in the opposite direction of the pattern is not at fault? So you say that a plane holding short for taxi and takeoff a couple of feet off the runway should get his damage paid for because another pilot lands and wipes him out ... no exceptions?? It really boils down to the people involved and the incident. How they settle their differences is up to them. A good settlement usually leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Gotta keep the grand picture in place... it is only property, not injuries we are talking about.

A bit of paint chipped?? IF that is what we are talking about here, should have been shrugged off. Hard to set rules to cover everything that happens.


quote:

ORIGINAL: telejojo

It's understood at our field that if run into somebody's plane on the ground you pay for damage but midair's nobody's fault.



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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 1:11 PM   
rowdog_14



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Status: offline 		It is killing me to see most people saying just walk away.If the shoe was on the other foot and let it happen to you. I do not care what is it, if you damage my plane I want you to fix whatever you damage. Come on people, this is obvious. Yeah it may look like just chipped paint but damage is damage.

One time I backed out my driveway, and barely hit the tail light of a guy parked right behind my driveway. I cracked his tail light a little but but the tail light was still functional and in one full piece. Yeah I could have said your vehicle was parked right behind my driveway so I am not at fault, no I was at fault because I should have been more careful when backing up. So I went up to the guys townhome and said I just cracked you tail light. He said oh that's fine just see how much a new cover cost. I went and got a price on a new taillight cover. They did not sale taillight covers so I gave him the money for a whole tail light. It was the right thing to do. When you are at fault you do not make the decision based on the other party.

It is obvious that all the planes are lined up in the same area, as at most big fly-ins. So as a pilot you have to make sure that you know your surroundings. The pilot of the p-51 is at fault in my opinion. I would care less about his damage, he is at fault. There could be more to the story but the pictures say a lot.

RCISFUN[/b] I would of said "let me hold your radio" if he could not come up with some type of compensation.

Guys getting something repainted is not cheap, Let me see you put a chip on the hood of your car or your fender about the size of a half dollar and go to a body-shop and see how much they charge, it will be something to the price of $300-500. I know because I paint.


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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 2:35 PM   
rprouty


 

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Status: offline 		I just stumbled across this blog, and i would like to add i have jets and scale war birds: regardless of the type of aircraft involved restitution is in order. although i do not know if this was a meet and Mr. Bulldozer was from out of town or a local club member. I am 6'3" AND 300LBS. He would have a hard leaving this field with out getting right with me? if this is the type of person he is? well he would be suspended and reported to my local AMA president for a final decision to be made.
Richard Prouty, III COLUMBIA COUNTY AIR-MASTERS 4975 GA. CLUB PRESIDENT

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 3:16 PM   
RCISFUN



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rowdog_14

RCISFUN ] I would of said ''let me hold your radio'' if he could not come up with some type of compensation.




Guys just to clarify... I was not the injured party here, I was one of the verbally abused witnesses that took the photos
As stated by the other witnesses Mr. Straw hat started going off on us, then started to walk away before the owner was present.
Now maybe as suggested he felt backed into a corner as there were a few of us there; however, that is still not excuse and an apology would have gone a long way in my mind.
Like I said I do not have a dog in this fight and the gentlemen who did has walked away feeling it wasn't worth the effort.

Carry on the discussion, the comments are great

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 3:34 PM   
rprouty


 

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Status: offline 		as they say " photos are worth everything ". although Rich, you may not have have a dog in the hunt, but your support goes a long way. and bringing this out in the open is great news for the hobby to review and maybe other clubs will look out for these type of people and their educate.
Richard

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 3:47 PM   
Chris Smith



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Status: offline 		Look this is simple. just set aside a bit of cash so you can man-up. About $5K-$10k is probably enough for most situations. Maybe a bit more if you do jet meets.

That way you won't have to worry about 300lb club presidents chasing you down.

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 3:50 PM   
ARUP


 

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Status: offline 		A buddy of mine was there and saw it happen. The pilot of the 51 was a total @$$ walking away. As much as the situation sucks, just walk away. 'Karma' has a way of making things 'right'. Life is too short to worry about @$$holes like that. Any event he attends just let it be known, vociferously, who this guy is and what he has done in the past. Other pilots will avoid him like the plague!
P.S.- I had a guy shoot me down and another guy stepped onto an airplane. Neither would 'man up' when confronted.

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 3:52 PM   
junkjet


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Robert_Ellis

My $.02:

1. The man in the straw hat screwed up. It seems he had adequate time to at least kill the engine even if the the crosswind was too strong to taxi in. And the first words should have been ''Oh, crap I am sorry - who owns this jet - let me talk to him.'' Then offer something to make up for it.

2. The Jets were really in a vulnerable place as far as I can see from the picture. There was no fencing to stop errant airplanes. If it were my plane, I wouldn't have it 30 feet from the flight line without any fence between me and other landing airplanes.

3. If you guys were so close to see it happen, why didn't somebody yell or run out and grab the plane by the tail? I know if I saw that coming at my plane, I'd be doing my best to prevent a collision. When I was first learning, I had the plane rolling right at me and couldn't find the throttle cut - I just put my foot out and stopped it by the spinner.

At my field, there are some guys that when they are flying, I pull my 100cc airplanes back next to a building and I never take my eye off their planes when in the air. It doesn't sound like this guy was one of ''those'' pilots, but everyone makes mistakes now and then.

As a side note, I race with SCCA in formula continental. If some guy crashes into you - you're both damaged, you each repair your own car. It's racing. If it were any other way, the sport would spontaneously combust into a bonfire of lawsuits and die. At one race, during the pace lap before the green flag dropped, the car in front of me spun off into the gravel, then shot back across the track and hit me hard. The race hadn't even started yet and he had no reason to be going that fast to lose control. I ended up with damage that cost me about $4000 in parts and I repaired it myself. The guy was a blood-sucking lawyer (not that all lawyers are mind you) and could have offered to help me out, but ''sorry'' was all I got. That's racing.

The bottom line in this case, the guy should have offered him SOMETHING and apologized profusely. That's what I would have done if it had been me.




Well stated


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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 3:57 PM   
rprouty


 

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Status: offline 		agreed, the bottom line here is trying to do the right thing? and this gut obviously DID NOT he day will come!

Richard

remember take offs are optional but landings are mandatory

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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 3:58 PM   
junkjet


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Smith

Look this is simple. just set aside a bit of cash so you can man-up. About $5K-$10k is probably enough for most situations. Maybe a bit more if you do jet meets.

That way you won't have to worry about 300lb club presidents chasing you down.



Are you kidding??? Im not poor by any means but the day I have to do this to play with toy planes I will take up playing with toy trains!!!!!!!


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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 4:35 PM   
junkjet


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARUP

A buddy of mine was there and saw it happen. The pilot of the 51 was a total @$$ walking away. As much as the situation sucks, just walk away. 'Karma' has a way of making things 'right'. Life is too short to worry about @$$holes like that. Any event he attends just let it be known, vociferously, who this guy is and what he has done in the past. Other pilots will avoid him like the plague!
P.S.- I had a guy shoot me down and another guy stepped onto an airplane. Neither would 'man up' when confronted.


Shoot somebody down, pay up in full even if you have to take a loan to do so. Stepped on, heart felt apology and offer. after the heart felt I would not take cash for an accident. I would even go as far as to think to myself what could I have done to prevent this and limit my risk. Kinda like if I am taking my plane apart and lay the wing down in the grass I am taking a chance it will get stepped on. I assume that risk by laying it there instead of standing it up or putting it in my car. If I lay the wing down the risk is all mine not everybody else at the field.


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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 4:37 PM   
junkjet


 

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Status: offline 		BTW just kidding about the toy thing. Trying to yank some chains.


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RE: So what would you do in this situation????? - 9/20/2011 4:46 PM   
AndyAndrews



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Smith

Look this is simple. just set aside a bit of cash so you can man-up. About $5K-$10k is probably enough for most situations. Maybe a bit more if you do jet meets.

That way you won't have to worry about 300lb club presidents chasing you down.


lol, thats ok wages can be garnished. No need for 300lb club presidents to enforce.

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(in reply to Chris Smith)
       Post #: 100

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