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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 11/23/2011 8:47 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		When the tail section was glued together, I had some gaps in the very end section. Using the same technique before with BVM V-poxy, masking tape can be used to hold the shape while the glue dries. Add a little paint and the tail section looks much better.

In the last photo, the thrust tube was installed. Painting it black first makes the tail section look a consistent color.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 11/26/2011 8:24 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		I sprayed 3 or 4 coats of the Rust-oleum Crystal Clear Enamel on the tip tanks to provide a glossy protective shell over the foam. Although the bare foam doesn't like the clear enamel, it seems fine on the pre-painted areas. I'm not sure if I will spray the clear coat on the aluminum color of the fuselage and wing because I like the stock finish. The detail in the molds is very nice!

I pressed the tanks onto the wing tips and mounted the canopy hatch so I could do a rough CG check. I loaded the two 6s (28C) 3350mAh EON28 FlightPower packs up front and the 2s 1100mAh Life Source pack near the receiver (as shown in post #39). The T-33 was slightly tail heavy which was perfect for adding the two pilots and finishing up the cockpit.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 11/28/2011 2:49 PM   
Mike Mangus


 

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Status: offline 		Greg, havn't had a chance to ask until now ... can the stock fan take the outrunner motor without extensive mods? I.E. directly swap?

The T-33 looks great. Hopefully you aren't going to wait until spring to maiden.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 11/29/2011 5:27 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		Hi Mike,

I'm not sure about the differences between the inrunner and outrunner versions as I am still waiting for my order to arrive. My guess is that you only need to add the extra mount plate along with the outrunner motor. The plate comes with the motor or the complete set, less motor. My hope is that it mates with the Turnigy outrunner too.

In upstate NY, our normal flying season is from May through October. We do, however, fly off the snow on floats over the winter months.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/1/2011 9:45 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		I finished the first round of cockpit enhancements. I'll probably have several rounds over the winter months so the canopy was just set on top.

I made several scale headrests out of some latches and plywood. The white helmet pilot is mostly stock and the other was painted with Testors enamel in several additional places. The foam cockpit needs to be cut slightly to accept the pilot figures. The areas were re-painted black after first test fitting the pilots.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/4/2011 1:00 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		While I wait for my spare Lander 120mm DF to arrive, I balanced my spare rotor using the Dubro Tru-Spin Prop Balancer. By using an iterative process of sanding heavy blades and clear enamel spray paint on the lighter blades, you can obtain a reasonable balance. The blue masking tape is used to keep the spray paint from getting in the center hole.

My friend gave me a drawing of the Thunderbirds helmet scheme. I haven't decided if I want to hand paint it on my pilots or maybe look for some decals.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/8/2011 10:14 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		My friend, Paul Weigand, built this beautifully scale turbine-powered BVM T-33. Although the BVM fiberglass version is 10 times the cost and 10 times the work of the Lander model, you can see where I get my inspiration for making my foam T-33 look as good as possible.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/12/2011 9:48 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		My RC Lander 120mm DF set arrived from Park RC Models. I ordered the DF without motor so I could try the Turnigy T600 4030 outrunner. The 880Kv motor with a 6mm shaft was only $60 so it made for a good experiment.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/12/2011 9:54 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		The Lander 120mm DF was originally designed for a 44mm diameter (or less) inrunner motor so the new version uses a mount plate to fill in the chamber when an outrunner is used. The motor mount plate is designed to accept two different motor hole spacings. Although the motor holes fit perfectly, the shaft on my Turnigy T600 motor was too short to attach the rotor adapter.

After looking at pictures of the RCLander OEM 980 KV Brushless Motor, I can see that the shaft is still quite long even with the motor mount plate attached.

So it looks like you need either a 44mm (or less) inrunner motor or the Lander special long 6mm shaft outrunner to work with the 120mm DF. The new Turnigy SK3 Fandrive - 3994-850kv (120mm EDF) inrunner would be fun to try (for $97) but the shaft size is 8mm. I like the idea of using an 8mm shaft on the higher power motors so I may consider boring out my adapter. I need to determine if the mounting holes are the same standard as the 25mm across on the Lander DF.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/13/2011 11:57 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		I decided to try the new Turnigy SK3 Fandrive motor. My other 39mm diameter motors had the same mounting pattern as the Lander 120mm fan housing so I suspect this motor will also have holes 25mm across. It is a drop-in replacement for the original version inrunner motor and will supply 4000-5000 watts of power depending upon the actual Kv. I will still keep my original 120mm DF in my T-33, because it has plenty of power for the model, and use this new version for another project after running some tests.

My friend will drill the rotor adapter from 6mm to 8mm with a true center. The rotor adapter has plenty of base area to allow an 8mm opening. The 8mm shaft on the SK3 Fandrive motor will keep the rotor spinning true and vibration-free. It should create a nice 120mm power system for about $300 less ESC.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/14/2011 9:42 PM   
Mike Mangus


 

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Status: offline 		Should be interesting to see how well the SK3 motor works. It looks like a good low cost (<$100) performance upgrade.

Doesn't HK sell 8mm shaft adaptors?

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/15/2011 12:03 AM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		Yes, HK has 8mm adapters but they are designed for 8.5mm rotor holes. The Lander adapter on the 120mm DF has a longer 9.5mm diameter shaft area which is one of the reasons it spins so smooth and vibration-free. Add an 8mm motor shaft to it and you have even better dampening for a slightly unbalanced rotor.

I expect this new Turnigy SK3 Fandrive motor to work well on the Lander 120mm DF. If so, maybe we can get Park RC Models to sell the 120mm DF unit without the motor mount plate for $10 less.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/17/2011 2:12 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		The last modification I did to the cockpit was to give the dashboards an illusion of depth. I found a black plastic ring and cut several pieces out to glue around the decals. I used Aileen's Tacky White Glue on the canopy and then glued the tip tanks in place using BVM V-poxy. Both glues dry clear.

It was 25 degrees F outside this morning with some frost on the ground. I plan to do a taxi test video with some full power run-ups over the holiday break. The Lander 120mm DF sounds very nice in the T-33.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/23/2011 6:09 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		My new Turnigy SK3 Fandrive motor arrived today. It's big and looks to be very nice quality. The 8mm shaft is impressive. It has two sets of four holes for mounting that are the standard 25mm across. Each set of four holes has a different screw size.

I should be able to get the rotor adapter drilled from 6mm to 8mm and my T-33 taxi tested on my week off after Christmas.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/27/2011 9:18 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		My friend opened the rotor adapter from 6mm to 8mm on his lathe. This technique provides a true center and is easy to duplicate. The short 8mm motor shaft will provide excellent stability to the rotor.

I used some removable thread locker on the motor shaft and set screws. One set screw was lined up with the shaft flat side. We filed a small dimple in the round side of the shaft so that the second set screw would prevent the adapter from getting pulled out under force.

The smaller motor holes aligned perfectly to the DF housing and I used some metric screws to mount it from a Kyosho racing kit. I mounted the thin metal plate that covers the rotor base but I am not certain what it does. It may be a leftover from the original design that had a forced air fan.

Both the rotor and spinner mount like well fitting gloves. You can see the amount of shaft area reserved for the rotor on the adapter. These design areas all help create vibration-free performance. The finished unit was ready to mount onto my test stand.


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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/29/2011 9:01 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		I tested my Lander 120mm DF and Turnigy SK3 Fandrive combination using an 11s 5AH pack and a 12s 4AH pack.

The 11s setup (first graph) worked well, providing 3200 watts at 90amps. The 12s setup, however, had considerable voltage sag and only added an additional 300watts and 1000 RPMs. The voltage change under load was only 1.2 volts so I need to try a better 12s pack. I didn't have any other choices today as most of my packs are in cold storage at half charge. I didn't measure the thrust on these tests. The last graph shows both 11s and 12s runs so you can see the excessive voltage drop on my 12s pack.

The combination of testing in my isolated gym room and using the Castle Data Logger helped make things safe. The Lander aluminum DF also would help keep rotor blades from flying. I typically stand just outside the room when doing full throttle runs. Eye protection is always worn.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/29/2011 9:12 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		Below is my older testing using the original Lander 120mm DF unit that is now in my T-33. You can see that the 12s setup, using 3.2AH packs and 4AH packs is not even as strong as my newer DF using the Turnigy SK3 Fandrive motor. This comparison looks promising for a power upgrade replacement in my T-33 should the stock motor ever fail.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/30/2011 1:46 PM   
Mike Mangus


 

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Status: offline 		You could say you have your own engine test cell then?

Looks like some good numbers. Good enough to seriously contemplate putting the fandrive motor in the stock 120mm fan I have waiting on the bench for a completed airframe.

Looking forward to the 12s numbers and thrust figures.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/31/2011 6:03 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		Hi Mike,

I pulled some 6s Enerland/PolyQuest 30C 5050mAh packs out of storage yesterday and my numbers today were much better. This time I got around 4500 watts at 111 amps and measured 15lbs of thrust with no tail cone.

After a few seconds you can see the current start to dip slightly. Perhaps this was due to the pack or motor heating. The graph shows my third run up to full power and it was exciting every time!

Regards.

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 12/31/2011 6:20 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		It looks like the Turnigy SK3 Fandrive motor is on a flash sale for only $83.44. The standard price is: $96.85 and the sale ends in 356hrs (or 14.8 days). Not a bad deal!

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 1/11/2012 8:37 PM   
Henke Torphammar



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Status: offline 		Any flying yet? Funny winter over here, past two winters was like 0F and 20" of snow october to march, now it has been like 45F the whole winter with frost tops 24hours total, obviously no snow or ice at all hehe.

I did a Falcon 120 with a 5" Haoye fan and was really impressed by the 4035 Scorpion. 10S 160amps 5.5kW and motor lands cool. Well, a little high on the current for my 5Ah packs but no problem for the motor. Usually I like inrunners but here the outrunner did way better then I expected. (video on my youtube ofcause)








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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 1/15/2012 1:03 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		Hi Henke,

We have had a similar weather change here in NY like yours in Sweden. We finally had our first snow but it won't last long as it will return to 40 degrees later this week. Last year was a real winter!

I missed a few opportunities for my taxi testing but have no plans to fly the T-33 until Spring. My plan is to fly it off pavement first and then try it on grass. I'm pretty happy with the design and setup so I may only change the Lipo packs depending upon the performance.

Regards and Happy New Year!

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 2/4/2012 9:10 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		I had an opportunity to taxi test my T-33 today. The mild winter continues into February in upstate NY. Here are some photos from the taxi test. I will post a video soon...

photos by "Papa Jeff" Ring

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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 2/9/2012 3:30 AM   
4stripes


 

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Status: offline 		Great thread!
How can you resist flying it during "taxi tests"? 120mm 12S sounds like the best choice over 90mm.
The proof will be in the pudding. Can't wait for the flight review.
Cheers Eric

PS how much does it weigh with batteries and how much do the batteries weigh? Do you think two Zippy 6s 5800mah packs would fit for 12S?


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RE: RClander T33 for 90 or 120mm edf - 2/9/2012 10:28 PM   
Greg Covey



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Status: offline 		When you see the video, you'll understand that the taxi test was in an office park, so take-off was not an option. Most folks with a similar setup on the T-33 have been coming in around 10.5lbs but I have not weighed mine yet. Users that are going with larger 5AH packs are placing one up front where mine are and the second one behind it. So to answer your question, yes they will fit but not side by side.

We used three different cameras and I had some difficulties with various resolutions and FOV settings. One of the cameras produced an MOV file which had to be converted to MP4 for editing. We're still on the learning curve with the new tools.

The only issue seen with the T-33 was the front strut came loose. You can see it wobble as the jet approaches the camera. The screw that holds the front fork in place vibrated loose. It had no thread locker on it so I coated it with Locktite before I tightened it up back home.

RC Lander T-33 Taxi Test (40meg)

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