RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Aerodynamics >> RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts
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RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 9/10/2003 5:24:20 AM   
Tipover


 

Posts: 433
Joined: 6/24/2002
From: Outoftown, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, ya gotta look out for them Williams brothers...never know what their thinking

Kevin

< Message edited by Tipover -- 9/10/2003 12:41:20 AM >

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 26

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 9/15/2003 11:45:33 PM   
Johng



Posts: 1824
Joined: 1/24/2002
From: Deland, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Looks like someone in England has figured out what we did here. That is, the horizontal and wing should be in-line on the CAP. The result is a model cvalled the capiche - a play on the CAP name. It's a 50 size airplane with the quirks of the CAP 232 removed. Interesting:
http://www.philsrcworld2.fsnet.co.uk/capiche.htm

(in reply to Tipover)
       Post #: 27

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 9/16/2003 3:33:03 AM   
Ben Lanterman



Posts: 1296
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Status: offline 		I should have said that John, I take the magazine it was in by subscription (the English magazines are great quality) and have known about it for some time. I just forgot that it would be applicable here.

The mind isn't the first thing to go but you tend to forget what it was.


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Ben Lanterman

(in reply to Johng)
       Post #: 28

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 9/30/2003 4:29:05 AM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4725
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: online 		I was flying my Tiger 60 today, looking for rudder-pitch coupling. Don't got none! In level flight it's reluctant to change heading at all, yaw is minimal.
For stall turns, the rudder works just fine!
.
K&B "twist head" .61, generic retracts. Takeoffs are basically hands off. The tail comes up, and it runs straight as can be.

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< Message edited by Tall Paul -- 9/29/2003 8:30:56 PM >

(in reply to Ben Lanterman)
       Post #: 29

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 9/30/2003 5:28:23 PM   
Ben Lanterman



Posts: 1296
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Status: offline 		That looks like the Goldberg Tiger 60 with just a few streamline-to-spinner mods around the nose, side mounted engine and tail surfaces shape .

If so I am amazed at what a difference in appearance the mods have made. Well done. If not still well done. It has nice lines.


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Ben Lanterman

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 30

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 9/30/2003 11:09:45 PM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4725
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: online 		Side mounted engines do marvels for the profile.. makes the plane look more realistic.
The long pipe fits under the fuselage better than it would along the side.. and has saved the plane once when the forward wing bolts fell out.. The upright-to-inverted handling changed a lot in flight.
Flew the Wacky Waco and Simitar looking for pitch coupling. Both have it a LOT!!!!
And the Simitar doesn't have a horizontal to be above or below anything!

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(in reply to Ben Lanterman)
       Post #: 31

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 10/1/2003 4:29:05 PM   
Ben Lanterman



Posts: 1296
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for messing up a perfectly good theory!!

Let's see........

If you don't have a horizontal tail then it doesn't count.
If you have two wings or more it doesn't count.
If it doesn't look exactly like a Cap it doesn't count.

Now all is good with the world of aerodynamics.

Keeping the wing on is a great reason for side mounting. I was assembling a 80 percent size Quickfly (many years ago) and an interested kid came up with his mom and was asking all kinds of good questions. Well I tried my best to answer them while putting the airplane together. The wing was rubberbanded on.

So I took off and zoomed around amazing everyone with my skills until I did a slow roll. As soon as I went inverted the wing seemed to lift and then separate from the fuselage. I throttled back but didn't have much left after the impact. Sure enough there on my flight box were 6 more rubber bands.

I had a proceedure where I would put one on each side and check for aileron wires being smashed, etc. Then I would put on the rest of them. Since then I don't talk while assembling airplanes. Going to bolts helped too.

Anyway I am giving the Tiger another look. I like the way your airplane looks, The vertical tail mods look better I think. May not do knife edge loops. It would be interesting to see one with some wing taper, P-51 style. Too many projects and not enough time.


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Ben Lanterman

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 32

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 10/1/2003 5:26:31 PM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4725
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: online 		My T-60 is underpowered for a KE loop. I moved the rudder hinge line vertical to get a good pitch-less response for stall turns and hammerheads. There's very few swept hingelines on real pattern planes for that reason.
My TopCap does a KE loop effortlessly. MOF it is so well designed it makes anyone look like a better flier than they are!
I have a scale Ultimate bipe, which before the crash would do a 540° stall turn. Since the repairs it can't do that, the pitching screws up the manuver. Leads one to ponder about incidences and their effects.

(in reply to Ben Lanterman)
       Post #: 33

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 11/22/2003 3:55:46 AM   
JimTrainor


 

Posts: 1308
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		You guys have inspired me.

I'm hacking up a beat up Great Plane Stick. First I only planned only to flip the wing over (anhedral!).

But I can't stand the look of the horizontal stabilizer right at the bottom of the fuse.... problem solved... tailless!

This will raise eyebrows.

So...
- larger ailerons, with generous inboard area
- switch to trike gear
- forward CG, at around 15-20% of wing chord
- elevon mixing, and a bit of reflex on the ailerons

Anything else I should know?

< Message edited by JimTrainor -- 11/22/2003 3:58:51 AM >

(in reply to Ben Lanterman)
       Post #: 34

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 11/22/2003 4:44:34 AM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4725
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: online 		For real eyebrow raising...
This STIK sheds its horizontal in flight.
The main model has elevons.
The horizontal becomes a flying wing glider.. carries its own flight system.
For takeoff of the joined pair, the horizontal controls pitch with its elevons..
When they seperate, the elevons on the STIK control the STIK.

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(in reply to JimTrainor)
       Post #: 35

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 11/22/2003 5:08:50 AM   
cappio777



Posts: 571
Joined: 10/10/2003
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		WOW!, any videos of that puppy? What an interesting concept!

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 36

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 11/22/2003 5:11:35 PM   
Tall Paul



Posts: 4725
Joined: 6/23/2002
From: Palmdale, CA, USA
Status: online 		That was done by Don Incoll in Australia. He also did some weird things...
He's gone onto other projects now..

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       Post #: 37

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 2/5/2004 4:34:14 AM   
mithrandir



Posts: 683
Joined: 7/16/2003
From: adelanto, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I bet a YAK 55 doesn't couple much!!!!!

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 38

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 2/5/2004 5:26:58 AM   
Ben Lanterman



Posts: 1296
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Paul, that is an awesome airplane concept. Just think of the heart attacks it could give. Put the student on a trainer system and pop the tail off. Delightful thoughts.


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Ben Lanterman

(in reply to Tall Paul)
       Post #: 39

RE: rudder-pitch coupling - flight test - thoughts - 2/5/2004 5:45:39 PM